17:30:15 <sysrqb> #startmeeting Tor Browser Team Meeting - 21 October 2019
17:30:15 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Oct 21 17:30:15 2019 UTC.  The chair is sysrqb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:30:47 <boklm> hi
17:30:56 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos__> hello!
17:31:07 <sisbell> hi
17:31:14 <antonela> hello
17:31:24 <acat> hi
17:31:53 <sysrqb> hello everyone
17:32:00 * mcs is updating the pad
17:32:05 <sysrqb> the pad, as usual: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
17:32:06 * antonela same
17:34:16 <sysrqb> okay, maybe two more minutes and we'll get started
17:35:45 <sysrqb> alright
17:36:02 <sysrqb> i see there are still some active typers
17:36:09 <sysrqb> but we can start anyway
17:36:21 <sysrqb> okay, not too many bold items yet
17:36:22 <sysrqb> this is good
17:36:32 <sysrqb> It seems the first item is mine
17:36:51 <sysrqb> GeKo: how important do you think debugging fuzzyfox should be?
17:36:56 <sysrqb> is it worth time this week?
17:37:40 <sysrqb> I can start with #31918 and then try debugging fuzzyfox, too
17:37:48 <mcs> Is there a short summary for fuzzyfox status? I guess it works in Firefox ESR68 but not Tor Browser?
17:37:57 <sysrqb> i'm also tempted to leave fuzzyfox until next week
17:38:00 <mcs> s/not/not in/
17:38:20 <GeKo> sysrqb: i think it's not worth this week and until we have 9.0.1 out
17:38:35 <sysrqb> mcs: the browser does not successfully shutdown in 68esr (GeKo found this never worked in Firefox nightly)
17:38:35 <GeKo> i feel there is some larger, time-consuming debugging nedede
17:38:42 <GeKo> given that we've hit several issues
17:38:52 <sysrqb> mcs: but it prevents the browser window opening in Tor Browser
17:38:57 <sysrqb> and we don't know why yet
17:39:08 <sysrqb> GeKo: yeah.
17:39:11 <tjr> I haven't seen the shutdown issue in the past but I believe there are peformance issues that merit profiling/debugging also
17:39:36 <GeKo> tjr: that's interesting because i tested the first  nightly the code got in
17:39:47 <GeKo> and even there it did not shutdown properly
17:39:56 <tjr> GeKo: Yeah.  Maybe it' a platform issue?
17:39:59 <GeKo> so, maybe that's a linux thing?
17:40:00 <sysrqb> GeKo: i agree (for not spending the time this week)
17:40:03 <GeKo> yeah
17:40:07 <tjr> I've tried Windows and Mac but I don't know if I ever played on linux...
17:41:12 <sysrqb> okay, we can delay this until we finish the current set of releases and bugfixes
17:41:55 <sysrqb> GeKo: do you want to talk about tbb-9.0-issues?
17:42:04 <GeKo> just briefly now
17:42:37 <GeKo> i addekeywords to known issus and those yet to come: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=!closed&keywords=~tbb-9.0-issues
17:42:42 <GeKo> is the current list
17:42:59 <GeKo> there is a similar one for tickets we could think including into 9.0.1
17:43:12 <GeKo> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=!closed&keywords=~tbb-9.0.1-can
17:43:21 <GeKo> it seems to me that worked well for 8.0
17:43:50 <GeKo> so once 9.0 is out (or even from now on) we could tink abuot picking preferable from those two lists
17:44:07 <GeKo> in case anyone is looking for work to do
17:44:25 <GeKo> so that we have the biggest/most annoying issues under control for 9.0.1
17:44:33 <sysrqb> sounds good to me
17:44:34 <sysrqb> thanks
17:44:58 <boklm> which ones are the most important ones that we should mention in the "Know Issues" section of the blog post?
17:44:58 <GeKo> if thre are small ones that take you less then an hours that#s fair game
17:45:17 <GeKo> just go ahead pick them up and make sure others notice you are working on
17:45:20 <GeKo> them
17:45:58 <GeKo> boklm: going over the list
17:46:03 * boklm has #32052 and #32053 so far for the "Known Issues" section of the blog post
17:46:06 <GeKo> the reproducibility ones for sure
17:46:12 <GeKo> yeah
17:46:23 <GeKo> i think that's fine
17:46:47 <GeKo> the other ones are not worth mentioning imo
17:46:51 <boklm> ok
17:47:04 <GeKo> that's it from me for that point
17:47:59 <sysrqb> okay, should we take a few minutes and talk about tor-qa@?
17:48:13 <sysrqb> antonela: you mentioned this, and I saw GeKo responded
17:48:23 <antonela> yep, is good
17:48:27 <sysrqb> but is this a topic worth discussing here?
17:48:38 <antonela> no no, was just a comment for GeKo
17:48:47 <sysrqb> okay
17:48:50 <antonela> thanks
17:48:57 <sysrqb> i've had it in the back of my mind for a while
17:49:04 <sysrqb> we previously used https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/TorQA/TBBQA
17:49:13 <sysrqb> but that is very old now and needs updating
17:49:22 <antonela> me too and finally tor-qa and i we meet today
17:49:42 <sysrqb> and I want to add more items for the android app, too
17:49:47 <sysrqb> heh
17:50:11 <sysrqb> okay, then we can move on and talk about QA at another point
17:50:26 <antonela> yup, thanks!
17:50:35 <sysrqb> pospeselr: are you working this week? :)
17:50:49 <pospeselr> lol yes
17:51:11 <sysrqb> okay, sure. i'll believe it when i see some items on your list ;P
17:51:14 <GeKo> how has the build been going?
17:51:29 <pospeselr> well i completed alpha1 yesterday, and then i saw your email
17:51:38 <GeKo> great!
17:51:38 <pospeselr> so i started alpha2 this morning
17:51:44 <GeKo> thanks
17:52:11 <GeKo> it would still be worthwhile seeing your results and making sure the process is working for you
17:53:24 <pospeselr> sure, where's that text file with all the sha sums live?
17:54:01 <boklm> https://people.torproject.org/~boklm/builds/9.5a1-build2/ is my build
17:55:28 <pospeselr> ah right under alpha/unsigned
17:55:34 <GeKo> yes
17:56:17 <sysrqb> alright, anyone have something they want to discuss for weekly updates?
17:56:42 <sysrqb> great. so, this week we have two releases
17:56:55 <sisbell> #30272 would need a UI change
17:57:14 <sisbell> So that would need to be defined to move forward on issue
17:58:26 <sysrqb> sisbell: that's a good question
17:59:12 <sysrqb> can you add antonela onto that ticket?
17:59:35 <sysrqb> and we can discuss what the UI/UX should be?
17:59:36 <sisbell> I did see 1-star review about the network proxy message and not understanding what was going on
17:59:49 <mcs> pospeselr: brade and I also have #31803 on our list too but you are welcome to take it :)
17:59:52 <sisbell> sure I modify ticket and add her
18:00:01 <sysrqb> sisbell: that's not surprising, it's a bad experience :)
18:00:20 * antonela added ux-team there
18:00:56 <pospeselr> mcs: don't mind if I do, so long as your heart isn't set on it
18:01:09 <mcs> not set
18:01:23 <antonela> the resource is already somewhere for #31803, pospeselr used the same for about:preferences#tor
18:01:35 <pospeselr> yeah
18:02:15 <sysrqb> antonela: is ux-team a better keyword now?
18:02:28 <sysrqb> i thought you preferred yourself, sorry
18:02:42 <sysrqb> maybe you have more help now? :)
18:02:57 <antonela> is fine
18:03:14 <antonela> im using ux-team to set some expectations, [antonela] can't do all the things :)
18:03:23 <sysrqb> heh :)
18:03:26 <sysrqb> indeed
18:03:29 <sysrqb> okay
18:03:58 <sysrqb> i injected another discussion point, but mostly just a reminder
18:04:23 <sysrqb> please go though the spreadsheet for identifying your strengths
18:04:56 <sysrqb> so people who are triaging tickets and assigning reviewers can more easily assign a good person
18:05:27 <sysrqb> most people already did this, but if you want to check it again and make sure you still agree with your past-self, then pleaes do
18:06:04 <sysrqb> the next item is about a new triaging process we're going to try
18:06:23 <sysrqb> currently GeKo does most of the triaging
18:07:01 <sysrqb> during one of the earlier meetings we had about transitioning roles, we talked about distributing this over more of the team
18:07:34 <sysrqb> pili (who isn't here today) and boklm (i believe) said they can help with triaging during their mornings
18:08:01 <sysrqb> and then I (and maybe someone else) can do another round of triaging later in the day (Americas mornings)
18:08:28 <sysrqb> we're going to try this, starting on 4 November
18:08:57 <sysrqb> and we'll use a trac keyword when the person triaging the ticket doesn't know how they should handle it
18:09:24 <sysrqb> something like tbb-triage-level2-needed
18:09:35 <sysrqb> boklm: is this plan still okay with you?
18:09:47 <boklm> ok, that sounds good to me
18:09:49 <sysrqb> i'm assuming i remember correctly you volunteered for this :)
18:09:54 <sysrqb> great, thanks!
18:10:29 <sysrqb> anyone have questions about this?
18:11:11 <sysrqb> okay, GeKo, you're up
18:11:29 <sysrqb> (and thanks for ewhoever remembered about DST, I forgot to add it on the list)
18:11:39 <brade> :)
18:11:44 <GeKo> okay
18:11:46 <sysrqb> ah! thanks :)
18:12:03 <GeKo> i put this on our agenda last week to think about the big items for the next two months
18:12:19 <GeKo> the tickets were #31660
18:12:26 <GeKo> #28325
18:12:38 <GeKo> #30570
18:12:58 <GeKo> s27 work
18:13:11 <GeKo> maybe #31005
18:13:25 <GeKo> does anything else comes to mind here?
18:13:50 <mcs> Sponsor 27 master ticket is #30281
18:14:04 <mcs> (some is Network Team work of course)
18:14:26 * Jeremy_Rand_Talos assumes none of the Namecoin stuff I'm working on meets the bar for "big"
18:14:50 <GeKo> Jeremy_Rand_Talos: it's big but nothing the team is working on
18:15:03 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> GeKo, ok, makes sense
18:15:10 <GeKo> i am fine putting that on the list above and you as owner though :)
18:15:13 <sysrqb> i should finish #26844 and #27539
18:15:27 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> GeKo, ok, that sounds reasonable
18:15:49 <GeKo> sysrqb: sounds good. you have your items :)
18:15:54 <GeKo> let's look at the other stuff
18:15:57 * boklm has #18867
18:16:09 <GeKo> pospeselr: would you want to work on #30570?
18:16:16 <GeKo> and fix the remaining stuff?
18:16:29 <GeKo> boklm: yeah
18:16:38 <pospeselr> hell yeah
18:16:55 <GeKo> boklm: i think it's reasonable to put #28325 on your plate, to
18:16:56 <GeKo> o
18:17:04 <boklm> ok
18:17:05 <GeKo> give that this is major work until december
18:17:10 <GeKo> (including)
18:17:17 <GeKo> so that's two months from now
18:17:26 <GeKo> pospeselr: ack
18:17:39 <GeKo> we should put more folks on s27 work
18:17:48 <GeKo> mcs/brade will be busy with it
18:17:59 <GeKo> acat: would you be up for helping with that sponsor?
18:18:12 <acat> sure
18:18:14 <sysrqb> beat me to it.
18:18:34 <GeKo> acat: i think #21952 would be useful
18:19:04 <acat> ack
18:19:12 <GeKo> i guess we can leave the new firefox onboarding for now
18:19:31 <GeKo> especially given that antonale needs to help with ux work for s27
18:19:36 <GeKo> antonela: what do you think?
18:20:04 <antonela> yep, i agree
18:20:08 <GeKo> sysrqb: i wonder what to do with #31005?
18:20:14 <GeKo> it's potentially a huge time sink
18:20:28 <GeKo> one of my secret plans is/was to have work done in that regard for otf
18:20:33 <GeKo> when we set up etp
18:20:46 <GeKo> because there we need some metrics for success etc.
18:21:02 <GeKo> however, that work won't materialize this year anymore
18:21:07 <sysrqb> GeKo: yes, unfortunatrely i think we'll want some measurements before we work on etp, too
18:21:18 <sysrqb> so we can compare and show how much better things are now
18:21:25 <GeKo> well
18:21:33 <GeKo> that could be part of the etp work
18:21:39 <GeKo> like measure what we have now
18:21:46 <GeKo> deploy etp
18:21:50 <GeKo> and measure afterwards
18:22:01 <sysrqb> okay, i see
18:22:03 <GeKo> that could be covered by the sponsor i think
18:22:14 <sysrqb> yes
18:22:21 <GeKo> but it will happen next year
18:22:27 <sysrqb> we won't have as many measurements, but having this covered by a funder would be nice
18:22:34 <GeKo> and by that i mean not in the first half of the year
18:22:56 <sysrqb> i started talking with dennis, and we may have a meeting next month about this
18:23:10 <GeKo> what are his constraints
18:23:12 <GeKo> ?
18:23:39 <sysrqb> but this is only for understanding what is involved in getting this setup and how we move forward
18:23:43 <GeKo> like has he time for help or anything?
18:23:51 <GeKo> aha
18:23:56 <sysrqb> he doesn't at this moment
18:24:05 <GeKo> okay
18:24:15 <sysrqb> but he want sto publish a paper on his current results
18:24:25 <GeKo> should we wait for the meeting to see where we are and get a clearer picture of the work involved
18:24:27 <sysrqb> and would like to see us begin running measurements too
18:24:38 <sysrqb> yes, i think that's a good idea
18:24:39 <GeKo> could you send me a draft once you have one?
18:24:44 <sysrqb> (and that was mostly my plan at this point)
18:24:51 <GeKo> okay, sounds good then
18:24:54 <sysrqb> yeah
18:25:00 <GeKo> oh, regarding future work
18:25:18 <GeKo> we have the work for the end of the year campaign on our radar, right?
18:25:29 <GeKo> who iis working on that?
18:25:32 <GeKo> *is
18:25:35 <sysrqb> ha, oh yes.
18:25:48 <antonela> i think brade?
18:26:02 <mcs> I’m not sure we picked anyone…
18:26:04 <antonela> i made a comment on about:tor ticket related with eoy
18:26:10 <mcs> or did we?
18:26:13 <sysrqb> do we have a ticket for this year's?
18:26:13 * antonela goes to find it
18:26:18 <GeKo> yes
18:26:24 <GeKo> #30783
18:26:30 <sysrqb> good, thanks
18:26:37 <antonela> #30783
18:26:42 * antonela looser
18:27:02 <GeKo> we are all winners :)
18:27:05 <antonela> haha
18:27:24 <GeKo> who wants to pick this up?
18:27:37 <GeKo> this will probably be highest prio for this week
18:27:52 <antonela> i already made a first markup, todos are related with fonts and maybe some other stuff but CSS is done
18:28:11 <GeKo> what about mobile?
18:28:38 <GeKo> we have everything ready for android, too?
18:28:57 <antonela> yep
18:30:08 <sysrqb> okay, i thikn i can pick up the changes needed for android, after the desktop version is complete
18:30:20 <sysrqb> if they aren't completed together
18:30:49 <GeKo> sounds good
18:31:08 <acat> i can pick the desktop one
18:31:11 <sysrqb> but it seems like we still need a volunteer for implementing the desktop?
18:31:13 <GeKo> thanks
18:31:16 <sysrqb> ah, thanks acat
18:31:20 <antonela> thanks acat!
18:31:25 <GeKo> i am done with my item(s)
18:31:45 <sysrqb> thanks GeKo
18:31:48 <antonela> acat: ping me if you need anything related with it
18:31:55 <acat> sure!
18:32:02 <sysrqb> brade: do you want to talk over your  item?
18:32:19 <brade> just wondering if our meeting time will be changing and when?
18:32:28 <brade> When does Europe change?  US changes Nov 3
18:32:43 <GeKo> next weekend
18:32:56 <GeKo> 27th
18:33:06 <GeKo> 26th
18:34:30 <sysrqb> does that time conflict for anyone in europe?
18:34:47 <sysrqb> as in, should we consider adjusting the time of this meeting?
18:35:03 <sysrqb> if we keep the meeting at 17:30 UTC
18:35:16 <brade> if I’m thinking about it correctly, the meeting WILL be different for those not in Europe
18:35:30 <brade> I don’t care; I just need to know :-)
18:35:53 <sysrqb> so, we have two question, i think
18:35:59 <GeKo> that's less good for me
18:36:07 <GeKo> but i am fine to have this that way next week
18:36:30 <sysrqb> 1) do we use a different meeting next week, while our timezones are ine a weird flux
18:36:47 <sysrqb> 2) do we move our meeting to 18:30 UTC beginning in two weeks
18:37:09 * boklm is fine either way (for both questions)
18:37:32 <GeKo> i am for 1) no 2) yes
18:37:33 <sysrqb> or, we can simply move the meeting to 18:30 UTC beginning next week and North Americans can adjust
18:37:36 * pospeselr prefers moving the UTC time as little as possible, the local time doesn't really matter
18:37:46 <pospeselr> (for me)
18:38:19 * Jeremy_Rand_Talos will have to cope either way, like every week, since I have non-24 disorder :)
18:38:37 <sysrqb> okay, if no one is opposed to this, then we'll use 17:30 UTC next week, and 18:30 UTC beginning in two weeks and continuing after that
18:38:44 <pospeselr> perfect
18:39:07 <mcs> sounds OK to me
18:39:27 <boklm> OK to me too
18:39:34 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> sounds good
18:39:43 <sisbell> +1
18:39:55 <sysrqb> acat: ?
18:40:04 <acat> ok
18:40:07 <sysrqb> cool
18:40:30 <sysrqb> and i think that is everything for this meeting
18:40:38 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> someone should update the wiki page that lists meeting times accordingly
18:40:41 <sysrqb> thanks everyone
18:40:48 <sysrqb> Jeremy_Rand_Talos: yes, i'll update it
18:40:53 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> thanks
18:41:11 <sysrqb> #endmeeting