17:31:18 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor-browser 4/29
17:31:18 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Apr 29 17:31:18 2019 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:31:18 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:31:33 <GeKo> alright, let's get this going
17:32:32 <GeKo> the week is a bit short in some jurisdictions (due to 5/1 being public holiday) but still let's see what we can achieve
17:32:43 <GeKo> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N is the usual meeting pad
17:33:00 <GeKo> please enter your items and mark things bold you want to talk about
17:33:55 * GeKo waits for others showing up
17:34:06 <sisbell> hi
17:34:17 * mcs is reading the pad
17:34:25 * brade is reading the pad
17:34:51 <acat> hi
17:35:49 <boklm> hi
17:36:15 <GeKo> do we have sysrqb here?
17:36:42 <pili> hi, sorry I'm a bit late
17:37:55 <pospeselr> o/
17:38:31 <GeKo> okay, it seems we have no sysrqb here, which is a pity :(
17:38:38 <GeKo> but let's get started anyway
17:39:33 <GeKo> i am first it seems
17:39:51 <GeKo> are we still cool with out plan to prepare 8.5 later this week?
17:40:11 <GeKo> if not please speak up
17:40:38 <GeKo> the alternative would be to put it out with 60.7.0esr which is in about two weeks
17:41:24 <GeKo> the advantage of getting the release out early next week is that we have a bit time to fix things for the release based on 60.7.0esr
17:41:38 <GeKo> in case there are blockers showing up which we missed so far
17:41:59 <mcs> It seems like there are almost always a couple of things we miss so having a fix up release planned is a good idea.
17:42:55 <GeKo> well, we could just spin one up after tor browser based on 60.7.0esr got out if needed
17:43:08 <antonela> o/
17:43:23 <GeKo> so i realize that's not really an argument :)
17:43:52 <GeKo> that said i guess i need to sync with sysrqb for that one as he has most stakes in the remaining 8.5-must bugs
17:44:08 <GeKo> but so far i'll aim to have things ready on thursay for building
17:45:05 <pospeselr> so i'm going to spend today seeing if I hacking prebuilt midl bits into the build fixes our screen reader issue, and if it works we could probably test that in alpha later this week
17:45:12 <GeKo> *thursday
17:45:30 <GeKo> well there is no alpha planned before 8.5 gets out :)
17:45:32 <pospeselr> don't know how that interacts with your release schedule plan
17:46:10 <GeKo> i guess whatever we get out in that regard into 8.5
17:46:25 <GeKo> won't make things worse for folks with accessiblity tools
17:46:42 <GeKo> so, i think we could skip the alpha part here
17:46:55 <GeKo> what we can do though is make some nightly builds to give folks on #27503
17:47:02 <GeKo> to check things out
17:47:13 <pospeselr> ok that works for me
17:48:00 <GeKo> okay, anything else for the group regarding status updates?
17:48:48 <GeKo> okay, then lets move on to the discussion part
17:49:11 <GeKo> the stockholm meeting is coming and we should think a bit about team related sessions we want to have
17:49:45 <GeKo> how many sessions would we need as a team for doing all our core team related stuff
17:49:54 <GeKo> for planning the next, say, 6 months?
17:50:01 <GeKo> what do folks think?
17:50:48 <brade> is a session an hour long?
17:51:13 <GeKo> 45min
17:51:19 <GeKo> and then we have a 15min break
17:51:35 <GeKo> so there is a one hours slot for each session
17:51:39 <GeKo> *hour
17:51:43 <pili> I would like to do something related to time estimations similar to what the network team did in brussels :)
17:52:01 <GeKo> what did they do?
17:52:59 <pili> they figured out a system for estimating points on tasks, also things like trying to figure out the team capacity
17:53:22 <pili> e.g how many days are actually spent on roadmap/project work versus other things like code reviews, bug fixing, etc...
17:53:55 <pili> it will hopefully help us make better time estimations for proposals
17:54:27 <GeKo> okay, sounds like a  good idea
17:54:33 <GeKo> this would be one slot?
17:54:39 <pili> yuop
17:54:40 <GeKo> or do you plan two hours for that
17:54:44 <GeKo> okay
17:54:49 <pili> hopefully one is enough
17:55:17 <GeKo> i guess we'd want some retrospective session?
17:55:27 <GeKo> then some roadmapping sessions?
17:55:40 <GeKo> i suppose we'd need two for those
17:55:54 <GeKo> there are some thorny issues that may come up
17:56:01 <pospeselr> might be useful to bring in someone from the network team to 'consult' during the time estimation session
17:56:08 <GeKo> (like should we leave the esr train for at least mobile etc.)
17:56:43 <GeKo> yeah, or pili gets all the info "extracted" before the sesssion
17:56:56 <GeKo> or we consult afterwards and adapt
17:57:02 <pili> I can look into that :)
17:57:25 <GeKo> that seems like for core sessions for now
17:57:30 <GeKo> is that reasonable?
17:57:33 <antonela> upcoming tb features discussions? per-site sec settings, onion related progress
17:58:04 <GeKo> i hope the per-site sec settings are done by the meeting :)
17:58:23 <antonela> oh
17:58:52 <antonela> okey :)
17:59:21 <GeKo> well, we said last week that pospeselr would start working on the remaining bits of #25658 once 8.5 is out
17:59:43 <pospeselr> god willing :)
17:59:44 <GeKo> and i think until mid-july that should be enough time for the per-site settings
17:59:52 <pospeselr> yeah I agree
18:00:02 <GeKo> (but yes, there is other work that will come up, but still)
18:00:59 <GeKo> antonela: anything specific regarding upcoming tb features that might merit an own session?
18:01:13 <GeKo> we'll be busy from july to  october with tor browser 9
18:01:22 <antonela> asn may want to lead an onion one i think
18:01:33 <GeKo> so that does not leave much room until the next meeting
18:01:34 <antonela> matt some tba
18:01:51 <antonela> yep
18:01:54 <GeKo> yeah, there will be other sessions that are related to part of tor browser
18:02:23 <GeKo> the first step here is to get meeting ideas that are mostly concerned with the team
18:03:10 <GeKo> okay, i think getting back to flexlibris with those 4 items is a good start
18:03:18 <GeKo> it won't be set in stone
18:03:25 <antonela> yep, sounds good
18:03:53 <GeKo> and we'll solicit further ideas later on once the schedule is closer to something substantial
18:03:54 <pili> I also was thinking about following on the vision discussions for longer term
18:04:00 <pili> if people feel interested and there is time
18:04:05 <GeKo> oh, yes
18:04:09 <GeKo> we should do that
18:04:15 <GeKo> 5th meeting
18:04:18 <pospeselr> yes
18:05:38 <GeKo> okay, thanks. that's been helpful
18:05:46 <GeKo> anything else to discuss for today?
18:06:19 <brade> can we talk about our plan for migrating to esr68?
18:06:53 <GeKo> you mean at the meeting or now?
18:07:04 <GeKo> (dev meeting that is)
18:07:09 <brade> now
18:07:19 <GeKo> sure
18:07:20 <brade> why are we waiting until July to start?
18:07:52 <GeKo> oh, no we are not waiting until july
18:07:58 <brade> could we start some of the process next month to reduce risk down the road?
18:08:27 <GeKo> what i meant was that from july to october the whole team will be busy preparing the esr68-based release
18:08:49 <GeKo> while before that just parts of the team will work on a bunch of issues
18:09:19 <GeKo> in fact we are already working partly on this topic, see the mingw-clang toolchain preparation
18:09:29 <brade> :-)
18:09:51 <GeKo> i've filed bugs for the toolchain updates in the morning, #30320 is the parent
18:10:30 <GeKo> for one of the two really big things we should get seriously working on before esr68 gets out in july
18:10:39 <GeKo> the other one is rebasing the patches
18:10:56 <GeKo> and we should start with that once 68 moves to beta
18:11:02 <GeKo> which is in about two weeks
18:11:09 <brade> I’d like to see us have a buildable tree throughout the process of rebasing patches (after the toolchain is figured out)
18:11:35 <GeKo> what does that mean?
18:12:13 <brade> last time the tree couldn’t be built/run because the patches weren’t applied in order
18:12:29 <brade> it made it much harder for me and mcs to help with rebasing
18:12:48 <GeKo> okay, i did not know that
18:12:59 <GeKo> that's definitely a thing we should avoid
18:13:03 <mcs> I guess whoever takes the lead on rebasing can coordinate with anyone who will help.
18:13:04 <brade> :-)
18:13:19 <GeKo> yeah, so while we are talking about it
18:13:51 <GeKo> my preliminary plan was that acat would lead the rebasing project (i heard he has experiences with patch rebasing ;) )
18:14:00 <GeKo> and sysrqb would do the mobile part
18:14:00 <brade> :-)
18:14:09 <GeKo> brade/mcs the updater patches
18:14:16 <GeKo> and i'll review the whole result
18:14:51 <GeKo> we can think about that plan a bit and nail it down like next week or the week thereafter
18:15:12 <mcs> sounds good to me
18:15:39 <GeKo> and then we'll have a rebased branch hopefully earlier than all the other times before :)
18:15:49 <GeKo> *cough*
18:16:38 <acat> i wonder how much changes will torbutton and tor-launcher need for 68...
18:16:46 <acat> *many
18:17:52 <GeKo> yes, integrating torbutton into tor-browser for esr68 will be the third larger item we should figure out beforehand
18:18:04 <GeKo> i think for tor-launcher there should not be so many, though
18:18:15 <mcs> For TL, there is #29197 at least
18:18:22 <GeKo> yeah
18:18:59 <acat> yes, was thinking of overlays too
18:19:09 <GeKo> figuring the torbutton story out is the other big item i need to get back after 8.5 is finally out
18:20:28 <GeKo> i might need help with that one though due to time limitations
18:20:33 <GeKo> not sure yet but we'll see
18:20:59 <GeKo> okay, anything else for today?
18:21:18 <GeKo> sisbell: i could need some help with #30169. let's chat afterward in #tor-dev?
18:21:27 <sisbell> sure
18:22:17 <GeKo> thanks everyone and have a nice week *baf*
18:22:20 <GeKo> #endmeeting