17:31:16 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor-browser 4/23/2019
17:31:16 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Apr 23 17:31:16 2019 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:31:16 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:32:06 <GeKo> the meeting pad as usual is at https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
17:32:27 <antonela> o/
17:32:33 <GeKo> let's check this out and give folks a couple of minutes to catch up with it
17:32:35 <GeKo> o/
17:33:08 <pili> hi
17:33:28 <pospeselr> morning y'all :)
17:33:50 <boklm> hi
17:34:19 <acat> hi
17:35:44 <GeKo> okay, let's get started
17:35:58 <GeKo> i hope you all had some days off during easter to recover
17:36:12 <GeKo> and having fresh energy to finally get 8.5 out :)
17:36:23 <GeKo> that said i have one item for the group:
17:36:40 <GeKo> i still miss some self-feedback according to our feedback process
17:36:51 <GeKo> the deadline was march 19th
17:37:13 <GeKo> so, please get to that during this week in case you did not send anything to me yet
17:37:48 <GeKo> antonela: you are next up
17:38:10 <antonela> thanks, some following ups there
17:38:20 <antonela> #25658 - anything needed on my side there?
17:38:29 <antonela> #28800 - still in april?
17:38:53 <antonela> #27399, #29955, do we have plans for it, we talked a bit in mexico but can we refresh our memories together?
17:39:32 <GeKo> okay, let's start in reverse order
17:39:36 <antonela> jiji
17:39:41 <antonela> reverse engine, i like it
17:39:54 <GeKo> yes, we should sync with sysrqb. he can't make the meeting
17:40:01 <GeKo> so we probably should get to it tomorrow
17:40:14 <GeKo> it's still marked for 8.5 as a must have
17:40:26 <antonela> perfect, yes
17:40:32 <GeKo> so we should be clear sooner than later what we need here
17:40:33 <antonela> will ping matt about it in #tor-dev
17:40:39 <GeKo> sounds good, thanks
17:40:50 <GeKo> i guess we could ping each other tomorrow :)
17:40:57 <GeKo> and hope we have time ad hoc to chat
17:40:58 <antonela> oki, yes
17:41:19 <GeKo> re #28800, we won't get to it in april, but i think it's worth doing in may
17:41:36 <GeKo> we'll have enough tbb-8.5-must items for the remaining month
17:41:43 <antonela> i bet, cool
17:41:57 <GeKo> so, #25658
17:42:29 <GeKo> we should figure out what we want to do for the site-specific settings
17:42:50 <GeKo> i am still inclined it's worth doing
17:42:55 <antonela> for this release?
17:43:12 <GeKo> but it seems to me we might want to skip this for 8.5
17:43:21 <antonela> yes, 9.0 is a good scope for that discussion
17:43:54 <GeKo> okay, given that noscript is not vanishing from the toolbar with the update to 8.5 i think that's okay
17:44:21 <GeKo> i think that could be the remaining item for this proposal pospeselr could work on in may
17:44:28 <GeKo> antonela: would that work for you?
17:44:33 <antonela> oh yes
17:44:52 <GeKo> great
17:44:59 <pospeselr> cool :)
17:45:00 <GeKo> pospeselr: does that make sense to you?
17:45:11 <antonela> okey, so we are groot with ux-team tickets for next release
17:45:18 <GeKo> i think so
17:45:34 <antonela> perfect, thanks!
17:46:34 <GeKo> (i guess "cool :)" means "yes", so, moving on)
17:46:50 <antonela> haha
17:46:51 <pospeselr> sorry yes
17:47:07 <GeKo> tjr: hi hi!
17:47:12 <GeKo> i think you are next
17:47:25 <tjr> okay, so
17:47:28 <GeKo> both with acat's item and yours
17:48:12 <tjr> Oh as far as acat goes, I wanted to throw a couple of bugzilla items on the pile that I think may be active fingerprinting vectors worth reviewing and either confirming there's a bandaid in place for TB or it's open, or we can close bugzilla
17:48:18 <tjr> (or it's just not a priority)
17:48:30 <tjr> One would leak locale
17:48:54 <tjr> One could leak hardware capabilitiy in certain circumstances
17:49:49 <GeKo> k
17:50:03 <GeKo> i'll go over our tickets and look for respective ones
17:50:11 <GeKo> and file new ones if needed at least
17:50:50 <tjr> As far as letterboxing goes: I sent an email that basically says I spent a long time during a bunch of data analysis and coming up with what I think is a good tradeoff between fingerprinting and usability; and then tested it and in 30 seconds determined I hate it usability-wise.
17:50:50 <tjr> And went back to the near-original proposal of "What if we just step by 50px if less than X, 100px if less than Y, and 200px otherwise."
17:51:39 <tjr> I'm happy to let other people try out different proposals (which can be done on Nightly now, by setting a pref to a string of dimensions you can find in a link in my email) if they want to confirm my thoughts.
17:52:06 <tjr> But I think the next step is basically to try codifying my stepped-range idea in code (so one doesn't have to set a pref) and then backporting to esr60 for TB Alpha.
17:52:13 <tjr> And I'd like to get signoff on that plan. :)
17:54:43 <GeKo> tjr: with codifying you mean so that the result gets included in mozilla's nightlies?
17:55:30 <GeKo> one thing we could do before shipping alphas with it is to have it a nightly only features for a bit to see how this works in a tor browser context
17:55:40 <GeKo> (or an esr60 one, that is)
17:56:00 <GeKo> that would help us shake out bugs issues before we ship it in an alpha release
17:56:40 <tjr> Yea, I'd alter the code in -central so if you turn on letterboxing you get the stepped letterboxing instead of the current 200x100 rounding
17:56:55 <GeKo> sounds good
17:57:13 <tjr> And yea, I fogot Tor Browser Nightly existed, so it can certainly ride the trains in Tor Browser from TB Nightly -> Alpha, etc
17:57:20 <GeKo> fwiw, i think it is fine to start with the stepped version right from the beginning
17:57:32 <GeKo> and not after the users is doing the resizing
17:57:41 <GeKo> *user
17:58:19 <tjr> Yeah, the letterboxing (using stepped ranges) will always behave the same way before or during a resize. (I'm not entirely sure what you mean by your last statement)
17:59:02 <GeKo> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1538130
17:59:45 <GeKo> it seemed to me there was kind of an open question about that from our PoV
18:00:10 <GeKo> (at least some folks were wondering about what we think about that bug)
18:00:40 <tjr> Yes... so that one is "Should we bother rounding the window now that we have letterboxing?" and I can see advantages on both sides.  When I make a patch for Tor Browser I can make it either way
18:02:07 <GeKo> i don't have a strong opinion here, so i guess we start with one option and see how it goes
18:02:20 <GeKo> that said: i think your overall plan sounds reasonable :)
18:03:09 <tjr> cool, thanks
18:04:15 <GeKo> pili: you are up
18:04:20 <pili> hi
18:04:56 <pili> first one is just an announcement that I have finished the ideas page for Google Season of Docs but would welcome reviews from people :)
18:04:59 <pili> most of the ideas are more for tor core
18:05:15 <pili> but there's also still time to submit ideas if you are willing to mentor
18:05:21 <GeKo> by when do you need feedback?
18:05:59 <pili> well, the deadline to submit the application is today
18:06:07 <pili> but I think we can have a few days to refine the list
18:06:37 <pili> having said that I'm relatlively happy with the state of that page :)
18:07:32 <GeKo> okay
18:07:41 <GeKo> i can have a look at it tomorrow i think
18:07:50 <pili> sure, thanks :)
18:08:23 <pili> the other thing is that I was reminded of the need for deciding what we're going to do about orbot tickets going forward
18:08:46 <antonela> orbot or orfox pili?
18:08:57 <pili> this is probably something that gaba and I need to figure out, but if anyone has any suggestions or ideas I'd be happy to hear them :)
18:09:00 <pili> orbot
18:09:01 <GeKo> pili: you saw the thread on tor-team?
18:09:08 <pili> GeKo: yup :)
18:09:12 <GeKo> k
18:09:21 <pili> I had it at the bottom of my pile before that anyway :)
18:09:30 <GeKo> so, i think we should try to do a meeting with nathan and nail things down
18:10:48 <sisbell> I guess to start Orbot could disble issues
18:10:55 <sisbell> So no one can open new ones
18:10:56 <pili> yup, I see their point though about not wanting to move people to trac if we're going to move to something else
18:11:13 <pili> also the fact that trac might not be as user friendly when it comes to reporting issues
18:12:32 <pili> anyway, that was all I had on that also :)
18:12:50 <GeKo> okay, any other status updates?
18:13:20 <antonela> i forgot something !
18:13:37 <GeKo> go for it
18:13:46 <antonela> DRL proposal deadline is friday, could you review O3 GeKo and can we talk about it offline to check that we are in the same page there
18:14:03 <antonela> ux improvements are running over TB, so we should sync there
18:14:10 <GeKo> sure
18:14:20 <GeKo> send me the link to what i should look at?
18:14:23 <pili> antonela: I think it's Monday :)
18:14:29 <GeKo> even better :)
18:14:30 <pili> but yes, better to get it done asap
18:14:47 <antonela> yes, will do GeKo
18:15:01 <GeKo> i think i can look at that tomorrow as well
18:15:10 <GeKo> so we have time for some back and forth if needed
18:15:49 <antonela> ok, thanks
18:16:24 <GeKo> okay discussion time
18:16:42 <GeKo> we currently have 21 tbb-8.5-must tickets
18:17:06 <GeKo> i need to sync with sysrqb because he is involved in most of them
18:17:24 <GeKo> but i still hope we can build 8.5 next week-ish
18:17:40 <GeKo> pili: do we have the release sync tomorrow?
18:17:46 <pili> yup
18:17:57 <GeKo> #30136 might be worth chatting about then
18:18:03 <pili> I should send a reminder email
18:18:04 <GeKo> and having maybe stephw around
18:18:13 <pili> anyone else?
18:18:57 <GeKo> not from my side
18:20:15 <pili> ok :)
18:20:19 <GeKo> so, anything that speaks against trying to get 8.5 built next week?
18:20:34 <GeKo> (apart from the 21 open issues)
18:21:38 <GeKo> okay, i hear no objections :)
18:21:55 <GeKo> so if you have tbb-8.5-must tickets on your radar, please focus on them
18:22:00 <GeKo> anything else for today?
18:24:18 <GeKo> okay, hearing silence
18:24:30 <GeKo> thanks everyone and have a nice week *baf*
18:24:32 <GeKo> #endmeeting