16:00:14 <onyinyang[mds]> #startmeeting tor anti-censorship meeting
16:00:14 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Sep 24 16:00:14 2026 UTC.  The chair is onyinyang[mds]. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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16:00:14 <onyinyang[mds]> hello everyone!
16:00:14 <onyinyang[mds]> here is our meeting pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/r.9574e996bb9c0266213d38b91b56c469
16:00:18 <Shelikhoo[mds]> hi~hi~
16:00:29 <pryty26[mds]> hi
16:00:42 <jah> hey
16:01:20 <onyinyang[mds]> If anyone needs access to the pad to add announcements or discussions points, please send me a message and I can share the link
16:01:32 <onyinyang[mds]> s/discussions/discussion/
16:01:52 <pryty26[mds]> onyinyang[mds]: May I have the pad? :)
16:03:55 <onyinyang[mds]> @pryty26 sent in dm :)
16:05:27 <pryty26[mds]> Thx
16:07:02 <onyinyang[mds]> Ok I see that @jah has added a few points to the discussion section. I'm not sure if @robgjansen is here today or if anyone here has great answers
16:07:51 <meskio[mds]> hello
16:08:10 <meskio[mds]> I'll have to leave in few minutes, so ignore me
16:08:12 <pryty26[mds]> Hi meskio
16:08:33 <jah> onyinyang[mds]: I can ask them again next week in case no one is around today, no rush
16:10:04 <onyinyang[mds]> Rob doesn't always attend these meetings, so it might be best to email him directly
16:10:10 <pryty26[mds]> Oh, regarding robgjansen I have tried to reach them too.
16:10:20 <pryty26[mds]> But they have not answered me either
16:10:22 <onyinyang[mds]> https://www.robgjansen.com/publications/proteus-foci2023.html
16:10:35 <Shelikhoo[mds]> actually I have a comment on supertunnel issue "why we don't prefer having such resiliency features directly inside Tor"
16:10:42 <onyinyang[mds]> * https://www.robgjansen.com
16:11:19 <Shelikhoo[mds]> basically since tor has been there for a while, it is not very easy to change the protocol or its performance characteristics
16:11:33 <pryty26[mds]> But tbh, I'm not familiar with supertunnel.
16:11:40 <jah> onyinyang[mds]: thanks for providing contact details, I'll try to send an email to him if there is un-ansewered questions
16:12:04 <Shelikhoo[mds]> so it is much easier for us to add new features in PT, than adding them into Tor's core spec
16:12:07 <Shelikhoo[mds]> over
16:12:15 <jah> Shelikhoo[mds]: okay I see that makes lot of sense
16:12:32 <jah> ty Shelikhoo[mds]
16:13:48 <Shelikhoo[mds]> yes, I don't have good answer for other questions, feel free to bring there question here again!
16:14:41 <onyinyang[mds]> sorry we can't be of more help @jah
16:15:19 <jah> no worries, that's already one answer :)
16:15:29 <onyinyang[mds]> but yes, as @Shelikhoo says, feel free to bring them up again and thanks for bringing these to the meeting regardless :)
16:15:31 <jah> I'll try to contact Rob and if I don't get any answer I'll join next meeting
16:15:42 <onyinyang[mds]> sounds great
16:16:27 <onyinyang[mds]> Let's move on to the next topic if @pryty26 (I think?) is ready
16:16:48 <pryty26[mds]> onyinyang[mds]: Yep
16:17:00 <pryty26[mds]> So, some anti-censorships' member mentioned that Tor may prefer special style for official PT framework. May I ask what is the exactly style
16:17:26 <pryty26[mds]> Also that I'm developing rust-pt ( A Rust-Based framework for Pluggable Transports' development)
16:17:49 <pryty26[mds]> So, I would like to ask if you could tell me what the style is
16:18:12 <pryty26[mds]> ＜（^－^）＞
16:19:42 <Shelikhoo[mds]> I don't have a great answer since I am not an expert on rust or tor's stance when it comes to rust
16:20:06 <Shelikhoo[mds]> but a good advise to look up how important design decision are made in arti
16:20:08 <Shelikhoo[mds]> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/arti/-/blob/main/doc/dev/Style.md?ref_type=heads
16:20:25 <pryty26[mds]> Thx
16:20:47 <pryty26[mds]> So, does other team member have any answer? :)
16:20:49 <Shelikhoo[mds]> and try to copy these move unless there is a reason not to
16:20:50 <jah> pryty26[mds]: do you remember who told you that? as I wonder if they mean coding style or API style
16:20:59 <Shelikhoo[mds]> over from me
16:21:24 <pryty26[mds]> jah: meskio
16:21:45 <pryty26[mds]> But they have not said whether it means coding or API style
16:23:01 <jah> pryty26[mds]: might worth checking as well with them an other day when they are available just to be sure
16:23:32 <pryty26[mds]> Yep,
16:24:02 <pryty26[mds]> <meskio[mds]> "I'll have to leave in few..." <- But meskio mentioned that they will leave in few minutes...(Would they be back?)
16:24:51 <Shelikhoo[mds]> I think maybe meskio will be away for the rest of the meeting...
16:24:58 <onyinyang[mds]> yes, he is travelling
16:25:39 <pryty26[mds]> Ah, sad
16:25:51 <pryty26[mds]> (Also @robgjansen said that they would like to review, and I tried to reach out but they have not answered my DM.)
16:26:13 <pryty26[mds]> So, do u know whether they are in a break?
16:27:15 <onyinyang[mds]> I was just trying to read through the backlog from last meeting to see if I could understand. I am not sure but I suspect meskio would have been referring to an API style regarding a PT framework.
16:27:43 <jah> onyinyang[mds]: that's my guess as well
16:27:57 <onyinyang[mds]> I think this is not something we have thought a lot about as a team but would probably want to put a lot of thought into it before developing a framework.
16:28:48 <pryty26[mds]> Oh, thx
16:29:38 <pryty26[mds]> I think rust-pt's public API should take a cue from goptlib?
16:32:26 <Shelikhoo[mds]> since there is no one else trying to reply I should think up something to reply....
16:32:42 <pryty26[mds]> Shelikhoo[mds]: ;p
16:33:04 <pryty26[mds]> :l
16:33:06 <onyinyang[mds]> Yeah, I think the people that are best suited to answer this question are not here today, unfortunately.
16:34:02 <pryty26[mds]> 3. Regarding community, may I ask if Tor have way to reach out PT developers Because I would like to let them know there is a new framework :)
16:34:12 <pryty26[mds]> s///
16:34:12 <onyinyang[mds]> I think on the surface of things, it makes sense to take a cue from goptlib. I do not know enough about the drawbacks and limitations of goptlib to point you in a better direction.
16:34:21 <onyinyang[mds]> That doesn't mean there isn't a better direction though.
16:34:55 <Shelikhoo[mds]> I think the answer would be "it depends" since for the goptlib the anti-censorship team is the primary stake holder for the project, but when it comes to rust pt library, the arti/rust team might also be interested in having a say in how the rust version of the rust pt library works
16:35:04 <pryty26[mds]> Yeah, tbh i'm not familiar with go. Therefore I'm not familiar with goptlib either
16:35:40 <Shelikhoo[mds]> so feel free to take ideas from goptlib, but I think it is also important to see how the arti team is think about it, in case they are interested
16:35:46 <pryty26[mds]> Oh, does arti team have a regular meeting? ╰(^°▽°^)╯
16:36:22 <pryty26[mds]> I would like to join.
16:36:48 <jah> pryty26[mds]: they discuss ofter in #tor-dev, you can also try there, they are quite responsive based on my experience
16:36:51 <jah> often*
16:37:54 <pryty26[mds]> (Ahem, afc said that they are not interested...And I feel that anti-censorship may be more-minded :p)
16:38:28 <pryty26[mds]> * be more open-minded :p)
16:39:07 <pryty26[mds]> * (Ahem, ahf said that they are not interested...And I feel that anti-censorship may be more open-minded :p)
16:39:15 <pryty26[mds]> ahf (oh what a typo)
16:40:21 <pryty26[mds]> (^人^)
16:41:42 <pryty26[mds]> But i think nickm gabi and cve are very friendly He He
16:42:42 <pryty26[mds]> and especially people in anti-censorship are friendly too
16:42:43 <onyinyang[mds]> As for PT developers, I think most of us that are maintaining existing PTs for Tor are on the team/will read notes for the meeting, do you mean people developing new PTs or the wider community of PT developers?
16:43:20 <pryty26[mds]> "people developing new PTs"
16:45:34 <onyinyang[mds]> hmmm, that's a good question.
16:46:42 <pryty26[mds]> :-p
16:49:52 <onyinyang[mds]> I was thinking that you could try to attend FOCI in January and see if there's an opportunity to mention it there? https://foci.community/ I can't remember if there's a rump session or announcements but there would definitely be people working on censorship resistance so it may be relevant?
16:50:07 <onyinyang[mds]> I feel like that's not the best advice but I can't think of anything else
16:51:03 <jah> I'm one of those developer, for me #tor-anticensorship and the tor-project mailing lists are the places
16:51:03 <jah> but it is worth remembering that most (if not all?) PTs are not tor specific and can be used with potential other software, so that sounds like a good suggestion onyinyang[mds]
16:52:33 <onyinyang[mds]> hopefully that helps somewhat
16:52:48 <pryty26[mds]> THX
16:53:22 <onyinyang[mds]> I think the only other thing for this meeting is the Interesting links:     https://riposte.levelflow.org/2026/07/deltachat/
16:53:51 <onyinyang[mds]> and then @pryty26 's rust-pt: https://github.com/pryty26/rust-pt
16:53:53 <Shelikhoo[mds]> thanks for the interesting link!
16:54:28 <onyinyang[mds]> I think that's it for today. Thanks everyone for joining the meeting!
16:54:42 <onyinyang[mds]> #endmeeting