16:00:28 <shelikhoo> #startmeeting tor anti-censorship meeting
16:00:28 <shelikhoo> here is our meeting pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/r.9574e996bb9c0266213d38b91b56c469
16:00:28 <shelikhoo> editable link available on request
16:00:28 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Aug 21 16:00:28 2025 UTC.  The chair is shelikhoo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:28 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:32 <shelikhoo> hi~hi~hi~hi~
16:00:32 <onyinyang> hihi
16:00:46 <cohosh> hi
16:00:54 <meskio> hello
16:02:20 <shelikhoo> let's begin with the first topic:
16:02:20 <shelikhoo> snowflake minimum go version updated to 1.23
16:02:47 <cohosh> i don't know if there's much to day, but i went ahead and bumped the min required version of go
16:03:03 <shelikhoo> will this break tor browser?
16:03:11 <cohosh> no
16:03:30 <cohosh> i think we'll be okay even if we have to do an emergency update in the snowflake client
16:03:43 <cohosh> tor browser uses lyrebird, which includes snowflake as a library
16:03:47 <shelikhoo> nice. We also have a patched utls, which shouldn't be necessary once we upgrade our go version
16:04:13 <cohosh> and i think as long as the client library doesn't require go1.23 or higher, it will still build with the current version of snowflake with g01.22
16:04:18 <cohosh> *go1.22
16:04:25 <meskio> we can update the go version of lyrebird sometime in september, when TB based on firefox 140 is released
16:04:31 <shelikhoo> no we don't
16:04:40 <shelikhoo> there isn't a patched utls
16:04:59 <shelikhoo> that was lyrebird thing
16:05:17 <shelikhoo> (which snowflake uses)
16:05:32 <shelikhoo> okay
16:05:56 <shelikhoo> let's wait until sep before we update lyrebird's go toolchain version
16:06:03 <shelikhoo> unless we have to
16:06:06 <meskio> +1
16:06:28 <shelikhoo> anything more on this topic?
16:07:00 <shelikhoo> here is the first interesting link
16:07:01 <shelikhoo> Analysis of the GFW's Unconditional Port 443 Block on August 20, 2025
16:07:01 <shelikhoo> https://gfw.report/blog/gfw_unconditional_rst_20250820/en/
16:08:01 <shelikhoo> since this event was rather short
16:08:14 <shelikhoo> there isn't a lot of information on this
16:08:57 <shelikhoo> anything discussions?
16:09:06 <shelikhoo> anything to discuss about this link?
16:09:10 <meskio> I haven't read it yet
16:09:32 <dcf1> there's a weird thing, possibly a coincidence, but there was an outage on an ISP in Pakistan at about the same time (but it lasted longer)
16:09:46 <dcf1> https://github.com/net4people/bbs/issues/511#issuecomment-3206154731
16:09:53 <onyinyang> oh, weird
16:10:22 <meskio> wasn't pakistan using chinese censorship technology?
16:10:24 <dcf1> which, as I recently learned, there was a change in Pakistan's firewall in mid 2024, they apparently switched from Sandvine to Huawei
16:11:00 <onyinyang> hmmmmmm
16:11:33 <meskio> fun coincidence
16:11:37 <shelikhoo> one theory I have is that they are testing a software update, which didn't work well
16:12:04 <shelikhoo> but I have no evidence...
16:12:36 <meskio> sounds plausible, we all love going yolo testing things in production ;P
16:12:46 <onyinyang> heh
16:13:20 <shelikhoo> anything more we wish to discuss on this topic?
16:13:24 <cohosh> dcf1: was there a news article about the switch?
16:14:25 <dcf1> hehe they are supposed to have cyber ranges (网络靶场) for that
16:14:42 <dcf1> cohosh: https://github.com/net4people/bbs/issues/510 https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/26/pakistan-tests-china-like-digital-firewall-to-tighten-online-surveillance
16:14:50 <dcf1> https://www.intelligenceonline.com/government-intelligence/2025/04/23/china-to-replicate-its--great-digital-firewall--in-pakistan,110438400-art
16:14:54 <dcf1> https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/china-is-helping-pakistan-build-a-great-firewall-like-internet-censorship-system-heres-what-you-need-to-know
16:15:12 <dcf1> I haven't looked into it deeply yet, I only recently learned about it
16:17:19 <shelikhoo> hahaha at least they rollbacked without too much issue
16:17:29 <shelikhoo> the next interest link is :
16:17:29 <shelikhoo> Can You Hear me? A First Study Of VoIP Censorship Techniques In Saudi Arabia And The UAE
16:17:29 <shelikhoo> https://www.eurosp2025.ieee-security.org/program.html#paper174
16:17:29 <shelikhoo> Talks about STUN protocol fingerprinting
16:17:29 <shelikhoo> Not online anywhere yet as far as I can tell, PDF at https://share.riseup.net/#v0RjsGn_2EKLle6QxICj2g
16:17:59 <dcf1> This paper was shared with me by Devashish Gosain. It's interesting because it talks about STUN fingerprinting among other things.
16:18:25 <dcf1> Apparently, STUN fingerprinting is one way that SA and UAE block WhatsApp voice calls, without blocking text messaging.
16:18:46 <dcf1> Devashish told me the team is interested in looking at Snowflake STUN fingerprinting.
16:19:34 <dcf1> Interestingly the aljazeera.com article about Pakistan also mentions that exact type of filtering:
16:19:40 <dcf1> > “The new firewall also allows specific features within an app or website to be blocked or throttled,” he explained, citing the example of WhatsApp in several Middle Eastern nations, where users cannot make audio or video calls on the platform but can use other multimedia features.
16:20:18 <shelikhoo> I used to believe that VOIP and Web Conferencing traffic are the kind thing that government wants to permit
16:20:52 <shelikhoo> but since the text and image massage history can be shared with government easily
16:21:06 <dcf1> I think there is something complicated going on in Saudi Arabia and UAE, like the government is trying to prevent competition with telephone companies.
16:21:48 <shelikhoo> yes... that makes sense
16:21:58 <meskio> wow
16:22:19 <shelikhoo> anything more we wants to discuss about this topic?
16:23:05 <meskio> not from me
16:23:30 <shelikhoo> okay anything more we would like to discuss in this meeting?
16:23:46 <onyinyang> nothing from me
16:24:04 <shelikhoo> #endmeeting