18:59:27 <donuts> #startmeeting UX Team Weekly Meeting, 27 September 2022
18:59:27 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Sep 27 18:59:27 2022 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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18:59:30 <nah> o/
18:59:30 <donuts> hellooo
18:59:32 <nicob> o/
18:59:37 <donuts> pad is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-ux-team-2022-keep
18:59:44 <donuts> please add anything you'd like to discuss to the agenda
18:59:52 <donuts> and welcome to our first team meeting in ??? days!
18:59:57 <donuts> 21?
18:59:58 <donuts> I think?
19:00:00 <nicob> so many days!
19:00:37 <donuts> 12.0a2 was released a couple of weeks ago, but that's it for announcements
19:00:58 <donuts> so please go right ahead to add your updates to the weekly planning section
19:00:59 <donuts> ALSO
19:01:14 <donuts> please please review the team kanban and ensure anything assigned to you is in the right column
19:01:27 <donuts> I'm a hypocrite because my kanban is a mess
19:01:30 <donuts> but I'll fix it too :D
19:01:52 <donuts> https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/-/boards?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&label_name[]=UX
19:02:00 <donuts> wait
19:02:00 <donuts> no
19:02:06 <donuts> that's the bad kanban
19:02:11 <donuts> i want the good kanban
19:02:12 <nah> hehe
19:02:39 <donuts> https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/-/boards?scope=all&label_name[]=UX%20Team
19:04:44 <nah> i bolded two items - not really a discussion, but something i wanted to share
19:05:01 <donuts> cool, are you both done and ready to chat?
19:05:08 <nicob> I'm done!
19:05:10 <donuts> great
19:05:21 <donuts> nah:
19:05:21 <donuts> - Updating User Research Roadmap and discuss next year with gaba
19:05:21 <donuts> - Work on Risk Assessment for User Research (S96)
19:05:30 <nah> yep!
19:05:53 <donuts> where are you with the roadmap atm?
19:06:07 <nah> so, first item: - i have two files in the nextcloud folder UX team/User Research/Tracking
19:06:33 <nah> one is for planning, the other one is to track the plan. which is not the best way. today i spent some time updating the "planning" file
19:06:54 <nah> which is basically listing activities based in projects for each quarter
19:07:27 <nah> so, that's is updated. but i still need to list minor activities (i.e. tasks) that are part of the process.
19:07:34 <donuts> can you share the links so I can see pls?
19:07:37 <nah> i'm trying to figure out a way to make this more visible
19:08:13 <nah> https://nc.torproject.net/apps/files/?dir=/UX%20Team/User%20Research/Roadmap%20%26%20Tracking&fileid=230554
19:08:24 <nah> only planning is up-to-date
19:08:53 <nah> so, one way to make it more visible is creating tickets to track each user research activities per project.
19:08:55 <donuts> oh gotcha
19:09:25 <nah> there is one for S30, and today i also created one for S101. i'll work on S96 and S9 this week as well.
19:10:06 <nah> all of these also to make more visible for our team planning, which i see in your activities too, donuts
19:10:34 <nah> AND to plan for next year
19:10:54 <nah> because it's very possible that we will have many in-person activities
19:11:00 <nah> with the community team
19:11:20 <nah> so, i'll will meet with gaba and have a look on this on friday
19:11:28 <nah> ops, 2 will
19:11:30 <nah> :x
19:12:28 <nah> ok, that's it for the first item. i'm basically trying to make the user research more visible. i accept any suggestions hehe
19:14:34 <donuts> nah: what benefits does the planning spreadsheet provide you with over your personal kanban? is it more useful to see it broken down month by month like this?
19:14:45 <donuts> i'm just curious, because I'm thinking of bringing back the team roadmap
19:14:56 <donuts> but making it less granular than it was before
19:15:01 <nah> i can add activities that are not gitlab issues
19:15:17 <donuts> right, but why aren't those activities gitlab issues?
19:16:43 <nah> not all of them
19:17:00 <nah> for instance, i don't create one issue for "recruit participants"
19:17:06 <nah> it's usually a task
19:17:13 <nah> inside an issue
19:17:25 <donuts> right got it
19:17:26 <donuts> BUT
19:17:29 <donuts> what if we did???
19:17:30 <nah> which sometimes is hard to follow - for those that wants to understand how long it takes
19:17:54 <nah> so, someone would have to open a long ticket and read it all to find all tasks
19:18:09 <nah> yes, i thought about it too
19:18:33 <donuts> we could really use more hierarchy with our tasks
19:18:40 <nah> it just feels too... empty. but it can make sense
19:18:42 <donuts> it's a tricky issue and I'm not sure how to go about it
19:19:05 <donuts> I guess we should be using the new tasks feature
19:19:16 <nah> yep, same. so, for now, i'm trying this: creating a ticket for each project and one comment for each quarter activities
19:19:23 <donuts> but will still run into the issue you described, about visibility
19:19:23 <nah> i hope this helps by the end of each quarter
19:19:58 <nah> like this https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/ux/research/-/issues/89
19:22:10 <donuts> hrm okay I see
19:22:46 <donuts> I totally understand your thinking
19:23:03 <donuts> I wonder if in this instance, it's because the milestone for O3.5 is too broad
19:23:43 <nah> i guess the tracking ticket shouldn't have a milestone, since it is for all milestones
19:23:43 <donuts> oh wait it's the opposite
19:23:51 <donuts> so this ticket covers O3.5, 3.6 and 3.7?
19:23:55 <nah> yes
19:24:04 <donuts> right
19:24:08 <nah> a comment for each one of them
19:25:05 <nah> so, when the report time comes, it will be summarized with all activities in the period
19:25:50 <donuts> got it
19:26:02 <donuts> so is that the primary purpose of the ticket? to make reporting easier, when the time comes?
19:26:11 <nah> it does not cover the **future**
19:26:42 <nah> 1. to make report easier; 2. to make the user research visible
19:27:07 <nah> but i'm open to other formats! really!
19:28:22 <donuts> let me read through everything again after the meeting and have a think
19:28:32 <nah> ok :)
19:28:45 <nah> so, next item
19:28:50 <donuts> thanks nah :)
19:28:54 <nah> Work on Risk Assessment for User Research (S96)
19:29:00 <donuts> sorry, my brain is running out of juice today
19:29:12 <nah> mine as well hehe
19:29:13 <donuts> oh one thing – when are you speaking to gaba about UR?
19:29:18 <donuts> the roadmap, I mean?
19:29:28 <nah> friday, 1800 utc
19:29:43 <donuts> cool, do you normally do it 1:1 with gaba?
19:29:53 <nah> nop!
19:30:23 <donuts> aha, would you mind if I sat in on that too then please?
19:30:28 <nah> if you have time
19:30:35 <nah> aha, i was just about to write the same
19:30:38 <nah> of course :)
19:30:44 <donuts> I do, it will be useful for me for wider team planning too
19:30:58 <nah> great!
19:31:01 <donuts> thank you!
19:31:05 <nah> i'll add it to the calendar
19:31:08 <donuts> ty ty
19:31:29 <nah> ok, so about the risk assessment
19:31:51 <nah> during the tor meeting, shelikhoo and i had a conversation about risks when doing the user research
19:32:04 <nah> we covered some topics like recruiting, informing the user, and running the test
19:32:32 <nah> i also talked briefly with fabby today and she shared their initial draft for the risk assessment
19:32:40 <nah> so i want to take over that ticket if that's ok?
19:32:50 <nah> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/ux/research/-/issues/92
19:33:28 <donuts> great! so gaba messaged me asking if they could take over the ticket
19:33:40 <nah> tgp?
19:33:50 <donuts> and has started a draft in nextcloud too
19:33:54 <nah> oh yes
19:33:58 <nah> i saw that
19:34:28 <nah> so maybe i just add my points directly to the ticket, and gaba incorporate them?
19:34:56 <donuts> yeah that sounds good, maybe we can discuss this on Friday too
19:35:06 <donuts> if gaba doesn't have the time, I'm sure you can take it back over
19:35:10 <nah> cool
19:35:12 <donuts> I also have that spreadsheet I started
19:35:36 <donuts> can you DM me fabby's draft as well please?
19:35:47 <nah> yes! i was about to do it
19:35:49 <donuts> I think we have 3 drafts now hehe
19:35:52 <nah> hehe
19:36:26 <nah> ok, that's it for this point
19:36:42 <donuts> great, tyvm nah
19:37:27 <donuts> nicob, looks like you have a question in bold!
19:38:08 <nicob> yeah! was hoping you could give some clarification around the donate.tpo banner. is it different than the web banner? or just the separate implementation process bc of how the donate page is built?
19:39:03 <donuts> kind of both? I think historically it was just a flat image on donate-dot
19:39:17 <donuts> but it also doesn't require the donate button, because you're already on the page
19:39:30 <donuts> last year I think we used a version of the main banner that was a little shorter and didn't have the button
19:39:38 <donuts> so I think a similar approach this year is fine
19:39:47 <nicob> ah okay, that's helpful to know. thank youu
19:39:53 <donuts> maybe omitting the FoT text too, and just focussing on a short banner with the main creative
19:40:05 <donuts> no prob!
19:40:18 * donuts checks the agenda...
19:40:40 <donuts> 4. Let's talk planning, workload, kanbans and quarters
19:40:49 <donuts> somehow, it's the end of the quarter again
19:40:56 <nicob> wow what
19:41:01 <nah> :o
19:41:05 <nicob> when did this happen
19:41:16 <donuts> i know right
19:41:23 <donuts> i have barely made a dent in my kanban
19:42:03 <donuts> Nah's is actually pretty good
19:42:18 <nah> you're just being nice
19:42:24 <donuts> i mean have you seen mine?
19:42:39 <donuts> compare https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/-/boards?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&assignee_username=nah
19:42:40 <donuts> with https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/-/boards?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&assignee_username=duncan
19:42:53 <donuts> Q3 tickets still open everywehere, total riot
19:42:57 <donuts> *everywhere
19:43:16 <donuts> I think it's clear we need another UX person :P
19:43:46 <donuts> previously I thought that could be a PM type person, but looking at the open tickets on my plate I'm starting to think it should be a UX designer that can also help out with UR
19:44:11 <donuts> I'm going to be picking that conversation back up with isa & micah in Q4
19:44:38 <nah> nice!
19:44:42 <donuts> one thing I've found particularly difficult is knowing *what* to focus on when we're so inundated in projects and tickets
19:44:57 <donuts> which was why I was super curious about how you've been organizing yourself nah :P
19:45:20 <donuts> I feel like we need to bring back the UX Team roadmap next quarter, but ideally make it less granular (like I said earlier)
19:45:26 <nah> i keep trying to organize, don't succeed that much
19:45:35 <nah> i agree
19:45:54 <donuts> somehow, we also need to try and get it to line up with the product roadmap(s) too
19:46:53 <donuts> okay, that's it I think
19:47:00 <donuts> please let me know if you have any thoughts!
19:47:02 <nicob> was the roadmap used mostly as a reference point in staying on track with projects? I remember seeing it but can't recall if it was being used since I joined the team
19:47:33 <nah> that's something i've been thinking about too. that's why i created the main "tracking user research $product" - which i'm not sure if it will work tbh
19:47:43 <donuts> yeah, it was used as a kind of zoomed out view because we had too many individual tickets to track at a glance
19:48:13 <donuts> however then gaba shifted to doing quarterly kanbans instead, which cleaned up the ticket-apocalypse somewhat and made the quarterly workload easier to track
19:48:14 <gaba> ^ this is one of the items of my conversation with donuts today in our sync :)
19:48:21 <donuts> so I stopped maintaining the UX team roadmap
19:48:26 <donuts> however, I'm struggling without it
19:48:41 <gaba> yes, i think we should do the same thing we do wiht ohter teams
19:48:44 <donuts> and think something longer term that aligns with the product roadmap(s) would be useful too
19:48:44 <gaba> we can talk about it today
19:48:50 <donuts> gaba: sounds good :)
19:48:54 <donuts> sorry for all the pings
19:49:17 <donuts> I guess the fundamental question is
19:49:25 <donuts> when you have dozens of tickets/activities
19:49:35 <donuts> how do you choose which task to focus on for the week?
19:49:58 <donuts> hopefully better team roadmap planning can help with that
19:50:09 <nah> deadlines is one of the answers
19:50:15 <nah> *possible answers
19:50:27 <nicob> it sounds like another ux designer could really help
19:50:55 <donuts> nah: yep, good point
19:51:07 <donuts> nicob: yes, I think so
19:51:18 <donuts> the design tasks are starting to accumulate
19:51:22 <nah> +1 ux designer
19:51:37 <gaba> usually you would have to look at your next column and that would be the next issue to focus on
19:51:55 <gaba> (sorry that Im multitasking. I will read backlog later)
19:53:53 <nah> i guess the question remains open for now
19:54:05 <nah> we could also have a montly or quarterly team meeting on bbb?
19:54:18 <donuts> nah: that's not a bad idea at all
19:54:18 <nah> to have a look together in our kanbans and see how we can support each other?
19:54:31 <donuts> IRC can be kind of difficult to coordinate this kind of thing on
19:54:39 <nah> totally
19:55:02 <nah> next week, next quarter
19:55:05 <nah> maybe we can start :)
19:55:23 <donuts> okay I'll chat to gaba later, but bringing back the roadmap + more conservative quarterly planning + monthly meetings on BBB sounds like a great start
19:55:45 <nicob> +1 monthly BBB meetings :)
19:56:57 <donuts> nah: yesss let's start next week! I'll hopefully have some kind of proposal ready for then
19:57:06 <donuts> thanks everyone :)
19:57:19 <nah> o/ have a great week
19:57:21 <donuts> have a great week, and I'll catch up with you both again in our 1:1s on Friday!
19:57:22 <nicob> thanks all!
19:57:26 <nicob> o/
19:57:33 <donuts> #endmeeting