14:00:53 #startmeeting 14:00:53 Meeting started Thu Nov 14 14:00:53 2019 UTC. The chair is hiro. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00:53 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:01:05 I have been filling this pad https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-www-weekly-keep 14:01:18 it has my updates for the week and a tentative agenda 14:01:29 o/ 14:01:38 if you want you can add your updates and let everyone know what issues you have and how others can help 14:02:02 hi 14:02:04 sorry I'm late 14:02:51 ok giving everyone time to fill up the pad 14:05:45 ok so reading everyone updates, emmapeel who can help you with your needs help item? 14:06:10 is that content that needs to be added? 14:06:38 this is a call in general, we had so many updates and i need help reviewing and translating, specially on our already published langs, i.e. german, Italian, Spanish, pt-BR... lots of new content on the websites 14:06:56 ook! but that is something you will do? 14:07:00 support.tpo and the manual have lots of content 14:07:18 because the idea of the needs help is like for example the item from gus, I need to go in the blog and do that and it's a stopper for him 14:07:59 yeah not like that 14:08:06 sorry 14:08:24 ah no worries! 14:08:27 moving on 14:08:55 I think last week we briefly talked about review/merge policy or something of the like that isn't a stopper 14:09:09 I think people that can merge need to be trusted with their judgment to merge stuff 14:09:32 and like everyone makes mistakes and it isn't a big deal, like emmapeel just told me I had merged stuff from develop that wasn't supposed to be merged 14:09:55 so that's the first point. if you feel confident just merge something 14:10:38 second point is about how we use our git flow. this needs to be well documented but my idea was that: 1. master is production 2. develop is stuff that can be merged 3. staging is experimenting and testing and a way for people to check content 14:10:59 now 4. emmapeel wants a translation branch so that localization stuff doesn't pollute staging 14:11:27 yes, it is for the languages that are still not published on production 14:11:31 ok 14:11:40 so, they may be a lot of them 14:11:57 and the last part of this is that we could use tag to allow people to help us when we aren't sure about merging something 14:12:24 ok 14:12:28 or we can just invite someone over an issue and ask the person to review 14:12:35 how does that work for everyone? 14:12:56 wfm! 14:13:12 wfm2! 14:13:16 so this way no one is waiting for somebody else to review and the other didn't know 14:13:36 yeah i tend to @mention people in tickets 14:13:47 yes I get the mentions, that's good! 14:13:48 when i feel i need their input for a merge 14:14:11 and when i am not sure about something i submit a PR, i dont merge 14:14:38 i feel it is important that we only merge finished things. if they are not finished we can work them out in a branch, like staging 14:14:44 yes 14:14:53 also let's get this abit to first merge on develop 14:15:04 I always merge to master and we shouldn't do it 14:15:34 ok moving on? 14:15:35 i have done that in staging but because it was a mess :D 14:15:44 staging can be messy 14:15:51 that's what it is for 14:16:22 ok dev portal... we chatted a bit with pili and decided that nothing will happen on the dev portal for november 14:16:39 then the plan is to put up the structure and reach out to teams to add content and see if people want to change something 14:17:17 yup 14:17:31 ok moving on? 14:17:36 Localization issues 14:17:57 ok we add a few links that weren't getting localized 14:18:02 I have started to fix those 14:18:06 but more remain 14:18:29 I think this is an action item for me to check 14:18:46 what I wanted to clarify instead are stuff like the link in the footer: blog, jobs, contacts and press 14:18:53 these links weren't supposed to be localized 14:18:57 i will try and do a more thorough check for links, but as it is the navigation and that... i am not sure 14:19:04 i am not sure i will find more 14:19:28 hiro: i dont understand when you say a link is not supposed to be localized 14:19:43 I think the idea was that those pages are not translated 14:19:44 because i see it from a user experience 14:20:13 the blog is only in english, the jobs page same, press and contacts same 14:20:22 hiro: +1 14:20:27 although contacts could potentially be 14:20:48 I think we should review what is being translated ... I think emmapeel is translating some of this content but not all of it 14:21:13 for example you are on the georgian website, you click on the jobs link, you should go to https://www.torproject.org/ka/about/jobs/ and not https://www.torproject.org/about/jobs/ 14:21:24 I guess we don't want to create a false expectation in users that they will find localised content in those pages, hence why we're not translating the links 14:21:33 yes that was the idea 14:21:36 but the jobs page is not only in englihs. it is part of tpo and it is translated 14:21:49 i mean, themenu, the links, everything is translated 14:22:00 only the job position announcements are not translated 14:22:08 but there is an interface on the language 14:22:09 hmm 14:22:45 georgian users prefer https://www.torproject.org/ka/about/jobs/ and not https://www.torproject.org/about/jobs/ 14:22:46 I don't know about this honestly... I think we should ask Antonela, because I think there is an expectation that if the url is localized so is the content 14:22:55 as pili said before too 14:23:28 i agree with hiro 14:24:09 but they will find localized content on this pages. there is a very minimal amount of content that is not localized 14:24:10 personally I will localize those links if you think I should 14:24:33 I mean collective you (pili, ggus, emmapeel, antonela, ... ) 14:25:19 I don't really mind, I understand it looks strange to localise some parts and not others 14:25:22 is like the sponsors page, we dont translate the description of the sponsor, but the page is translated, the interface, the links point to a language relevant to the user, the user can browse to other content in their language that is translated... i dont think we should take the user out of their locale 14:25:52 this seems like a ux issue :) 14:26:01 to be clear, we are talking about changing these links when a user is already browsing on a locale 14:26:03 not to push the problem elsewhere... :P 14:26:12 I would just like to know what antonela thinks 14:26:27 and it would be good if we have examples of what other people do in this case 14:26:50 I kind of understand both rationales in this case... I understands what emmapeel is saying about not taking the user out of the locale 14:27:07 and at the same time I kinda think it's strange that you have something in a locale that isn't traduced 14:27:11 so I don't know 14:27:12 e.g firefox https://www.mozilla.org/el/firefox/new/?redirect_source=firefox-com 14:27:39 for example, Press is not localised 14:27:44 yeah the links aren't localised 14:28:09 I remember discussing that with antonela when the pages were designed 14:28:26 and If I click there it takes me to the blog 14:28:27 which is not localised either 14:28:28 but it's a different subdomain so maybe it's not the same situation 14:28:43 yeah, the blog is not localized 14:28:50 for example if you click to benefits on the footer ? 14:29:04 the link takes you to the us version 14:29:30 but it's a localized link... 14:29:43 benefits? 14:29:47 lockwise in the footer is an interesting example also, it seems to be a localized link but then takes you to the en-us page... 14:29:59 e.g https://www.mozilla.org/el/firefox/lockwise/ 14:30:26 anyway 14:30:27 we don't have to follow mozilla in everything 14:30:30 I was just curious how they deal with it 14:30:33 ah i see now 14:30:34 and it seems they do it imperfectly like us "D 14:30:36 :D 14:30:49 i think they add the localized link at a phase 14:30:49 ok so let's ask this to Antonela when she is back from vacas 14:30:55 shall we? 14:31:02 and then meanwhile they add a redirect to the english page when tere is no translation 14:31:11 ok 14:31:31 ok the last item in localization is having a language selector on donate.tp.o 14:31:32 +1 for double checking with anto when she's back 14:31:55 what aout the RTL LTR? 14:31:56 I think this is needed as when people reach donate.torproject.org they have no way to know there might be a localized version 14:32:14 sorry I was putting that in stuff that I have to fix for templating and css 14:32:43 it's not that I didn't want to talk about it, it's that I need to work on it! :D 14:33:06 but that's totally an issue thanks for putting that on the agenda 14:33:44 ah yeah. that would be great to do, we already have some languages published like this and for Arabic speakers it looks quite bad 14:33:49 but lets move on 14:34:42 ok the next items are for gitlab-ci 14:34:55 regarding the menu selector, i asked for it when i first reviewed the interface. i gave my usual argument of the users of tor browser not giving their language preferences etc 14:35:10 I am going to talk to Sarah about it 14:35:13 I think we need 14:35:18 and see if giantrabbit can add it 14:35:23 yeah me too. full support on that 14:36:18 yes, regarding gitlab-ci, i think it is part of solution that will help to deal with the chaos of the merges this past days 14:36:27 it's not coming that soon tho 14:36:42 so there isn't much we can do about it atm 14:36:49 we have many kinds of contributors and not all of them are building the website before submitting a pr, or in some cases even making a merge 14:36:55 the only thing I can do is document a setup to have the build run with travis on github 14:37:12 it's suboptimal 14:37:15 so it would be nice if there is some tests in place so we can be more sure, especially 'newbie'contributors 14:37:26 but it's the only thing I can do right away 14:38:05 well, not sure about suboptimal but will that help people that is not very techie to verify their own PRs for example? 14:38:55 if the setup is in the repository they will just have to signup for travis 14:39:02 or github ci I haven't checked how that works 14:39:27 I am also fixing the lektor desktop app, so that might help new contributors too 14:39:36 and encourage people to run it locally 14:39:39 before pushing 14:39:43 great! 14:40:05 I think anyway that if people are techie enough to send a PR on git they can follow the instructions to setup travis 14:40:12 but yes having all those tools can help 14:40:20 in the last months we have an unusual contributions to the website (docshackathon, outreachy), i don't think we're always going to have that flow of new people 14:40:27 we had* 14:41:02 yes but the websites might also be a good way for people to volunteer to tor 14:41:33 since we have a lower barrier to start contributing than other projects in tor 14:41:59 from my POV, we need help with the websites, and the more we lower the bar for contributions, the better our websites will be. 14:42:38 yes agred 14:43:01 ok the last two points are the jenkins failures and the tag for tor browser relases and I didn't have time to look into any of these from last week 14:43:30 so if you have any other thing that you'd like to discuss this is the time to bring it on 14:43:37 if it's a lot of effort to 'lower the barrier', we should measure how many new people we're expecting to attract. or it might not worth giving the priority on this now 14:44:20 +1 14:44:32 i think that is part of the whole 'lowering the barrier' process 14:44:43 well, we need to lower the barrier for some internal contributors also :) 14:44:54 yes I prefer to have the lektor desktop app working for tor people that do not know git 14:44:59 so that can be transparent to them 14:45:04 for example the gitlab-ci, will help contributors to give a better quality of contribution 14:45:05 and lektor can be just like any other cms 14:45:22 emmapeel gitlab-ci isn't something that I can make happen tomorrow 14:45:37 without gitlab-ci, contributors submit pull requests without knowing they break the build. 14:46:30 sure. 14:46:53 ok we are 10 minutes early if we don't have any other issue we can finish early 14:48:23 ok all good? I'll kill the bot 14:48:26 I'm good 14:48:27 #endmeeting