13:59:47 <antonela> #startmeeting ux team
13:59:47 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Oct 29 13:59:47 2019 UTC.  The chair is antonela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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13:59:51 <antonela> hello!
13:59:56 <antonela> the last meeting of october
13:59:58 <emmapeel> o/
14:00:10 <antonela> il tempo vola
14:00:13 <antonela> hey emmapeel o/
14:00:32 <dunqan> o/
14:00:43 <antonela> hello dunqan!
14:00:54 <dunqan> hola :)
14:00:59 <antonela> please write down your updates and items to discuss
14:01:00 <antonela> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-ux-team-2019-keep
14:02:25 * antonela is writing too
14:04:29 <antonela> oki, lets start
14:04:48 <antonela> is thurayya around?
14:05:03 <pili> hi
14:05:14 <antonela> hola pili!
14:05:30 <antonela> oki, first item was for nah but i can share here too
14:05:43 <antonela> im planning to add a box in community.tpo/user-research with our latest tor personas
14:05:46 <antonela> what do you think? is a good idea?
14:06:01 <pili> I think so :)
14:06:04 <pili> will look great
14:06:12 <antonela> yes, and we have 4 items 8)
14:06:36 <antonela> oki, awesome - i'll file that ticket in dip
14:07:24 <dunqan> awesome!
14:08:28 <antonela> next item, dunqan could you add our priv conversation about new identity in some public ticket?
14:08:47 <antonela> i dont want to forget those ideas for the next iteration
14:09:18 <dunqan> sure, where would be best?
14:09:32 <antonela> mmm
14:10:13 <antonela> maybe we can rename #32118 and also include other ideas to explore
14:10:41 <antonela> or make a new one: New Identity users feedback and we use it as a parent
14:10:52 <dunqan> makes sense since the blog icon feedback's referenced there too
14:11:12 <antonela> yep, both options are good for me
14:11:15 <dunqan> could maybe make a new parent task though
14:11:21 <dunqan> okay, leave it to me ^^
14:11:43 <dunqan> <+antonela>	or make a new one: New Identity users feedback and we use it as a parent <- haha sorry, beat me to it
14:11:48 <pili> since we're somewhat on new identity... I had a question about new identity from a person I met at MozFest that i was not able to answer... :S
14:11:53 <pili> why would you use new identity instead of just closing down and restarting the browser?
14:12:13 <pili> is it because there's less "friction" in doing that
14:12:44 <pili> or is there some other difference?
14:12:49 <pili> I guess this also plays into usability and educating users about the feature
14:13:11 <antonela> is a good question
14:15:14 <antonela> there is this similar-feature-but-not flow going on between a) asking a new circuit b) opening a new tab 3) requesting a new identity 4) restarting the browser
14:15:48 <antonela> maybe we can be more explicit about what the benefits of the new identity are
14:16:24 <antonela> and the popup text is the next place to improve
14:16:39 <pili> yup
14:16:52 <antonela> pili: could you make sure you add that comment in the ticket which dunqan will follow up
14:17:01 <pili> will do :)
14:17:11 <antonela> is a question we got a few times with groups during the travels
14:17:16 <pili> yup
14:17:19 <antonela> thanks!
14:18:42 <antonela> so, we will have a 9.0.1 release this week, the main feature we want to improve with this timeframe is letterboxing
14:19:25 <antonela> tb devs are working on it, they are some opportunities to explain the feature better to users, i hope we can have this review for the next point release
14:19:42 <antonela> #32220 is one of the relevant tickets
14:21:14 <antonela> and this is the query with known 9.0 ux-team issues https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&keywords=~tbb-9.0-issues%2C+ux-team&order=priority
14:21:21 <antonela> okey, that is all i have for today
14:21:26 <antonela> pili, do you want to discuss anything?
14:21:47 <pili> I was thinking about doing a quick november roadmap review
14:22:05 <pili> I guess you'll be more or less afk for 2 weeks between summit and vacations?
14:22:24 <antonela> im up to do it now yes
14:22:37 <antonela> next week i'll be in the summit and the week after on vacs, right
14:22:54 <pili> maybe we can first check the october roadmap https://dip.torproject.org/groups/torproject/ux/-/boards
14:23:04 <pili> and update any tickets there
14:23:09 <pili> I moved some to doing state today
14:23:22 <pili> and there may be some that are already closed also
14:23:34 <antonela> i updated my tickets, yes
14:24:03 <antonela> s27 is still in progress
14:24:07 <antonela> s30 nothing this month
14:24:35 <antonela> i need to check the progress on s9 with nah this week
14:24:44 <antonela> then, EOY is done on my side
14:24:56 <antonela> what about l10n items emmapeel, can we close those?
14:26:14 <emmapeel> well, the translations are not done. the strings are different from the ones we translated days ago. also, the banner was not translatable when it was released. in general it didnt worked and is still in english on the website
14:26:23 <emmapeel> so i would leave it open :)
14:26:38 <pili> I saw the banner translated to spanish in tpo.org :)
14:26:50 <antonela> emmapeel: oki
14:26:53 <emmapeel> yes, but the strings were different, i translated it again today
14:26:57 <pili> ah :/
14:27:01 <antonela> emmapeel: are now things in place to make it work?
14:27:02 <emmapeel> we made people translate other strings that were not vailable
14:27:26 <emmapeel> this is because instead of working on a branch in the code we had some ticket without information and random strings we said on the irc, and the actual strings were different
14:27:53 <antonela> oh no
14:27:54 <emmapeel> so if we want to have the things translated, next time we should work on a branch with real code so this will not happen
14:28:03 <antonela> what about about:tor stuff, that is ok?
14:28:28 <antonela> i mean, tor browser about:tor
14:28:39 <pili> I though they were the same ones as for about:tor :/
14:28:39 <emmapeel> also, the banner this morning was published without the obnoxious {{ _('translation') }} tags, whihc everybody should add to the templates instead of waiting for me noticing and adding them
14:29:08 <emmapeel> well, 'the same', but there were <br> tags, some were in caps, is not the same for a machine
14:30:07 <pili> emmapeel: ok, got you
14:30:13 <antonela> yes, i think we can allow translators to use the <br> in the place they consider
14:30:50 <antonela> so we have a layout that matches across localizations but also makes sense
14:30:58 <pili> so, to recap, we need the strings with mark up, not just the strings themselves, in order to be able to properly translate
14:31:30 <pili> ?
14:32:23 <emmapeel> the banner should be on a branch so the translation file is generated and submitted for translation
14:32:34 <emmapeel> i mean, the new strings. should be like they have to be on the code
14:33:11 <pili> ok
14:33:54 <antonela> anything else regarding the eoy campaign? all good now?
14:33:58 <emmapeel> and also the stupid {{ _() }} tags are mandatory
14:34:12 <emmapeel> i dont like that other devs are not adding this stuff
14:34:20 <emmapeel> it is responsability of everybody, not mine
14:34:41 <antonela> well
14:34:45 <pili> emmapeel: can you show me an example of these tags? e.g from the current banner
14:34:57 <emmapeel> i already documented how it has to be done but if developers take this problems into account when writing the code, then the localization will work better
14:35:00 <pili> maybe we need to do a session on localization for people
14:35:10 <pili> e.g during next dev meeting
14:35:18 <pili> a refresher
14:35:21 <pili> or something
14:35:40 <antonela> ok, good
14:36:15 <antonela> about s27 items, i think we are going to talk about it the next hour during the meeting
14:36:26 <emmapeel> antonela: i coordinate the localization, i dont go around rewriting developers code so it is localized. there are many projects and i cannot look onto the code of all of them. the websites take too much of my time. i have already reported the errors and proposed solutions, but the rest of people has to write the code well
14:36:39 <emmapeel> is not my fault that lektors localization support is a shame
14:36:45 <pili> antonela: ok about S27
14:36:48 <emmapeel> i cannot help more, i am not a coder i dont know how to make it work better
14:37:01 <antonela> emmapeel: i understand
14:37:31 <antonela> emmapeel: maybe we need a review process where l10n gives the ok to push something to production
14:38:14 <pili> antonela: I like that in theory, I need to think about it more in practice... :)
14:38:17 <antonela> emmapeel: in the same way content should be reviewed
14:38:35 <antonela> is a good problem to think about and shouldn't be so hard
14:38:38 <pili> I tried to set up that pipeline for community portal
14:38:57 <pili> but then we decided we weren't going to be translating things as they became available
14:39:00 <pili> but only in one go
14:39:33 <pili> anyway, I do like the idea and we should enforce the fact that we think localization is important
14:39:44 <emmapeel> 14:44 <+pili> but then we decided we weren't going to be translating things as they became available
14:40:04 <emmapeel> the problem was that we were adding strings to production that were not eready
14:40:40 <pili> I know, I'm not trying to blame, I understand why we made that decision also :)
14:40:41 <emmapeel> and we are changing them all the time
14:40:56 <emmapeel> so we cannot have the translators translate the same string with different stuff
14:41:13 <pili> I agree
14:41:16 <emmapeel> but if we only publish things that are ready we can do more often updates
14:41:45 <emmapeel> the problem is that as nobody looked onto the localization, it cannot be automated because i need to correct all strings each time
14:41:59 <antonela> do you think that is out of scope in your role emmapeel?
14:42:04 <emmapeel> i was ok doing it at the start because i thought people will pick it up, but it is not happening and i am growing frustrated
14:42:39 <emmapeel> yes, i think i need to see how to do the localization and explain the solution si find and also propose better things, but i cannot do miracles
14:42:55 <antonela> i understand
14:43:02 <antonela> sorry for your frustration emmapeel
14:43:11 <emmapeel> i do that with snowflake, with tor browser, etc
14:43:49 <antonela> i feel like im missing some parts of this story, but is fine, we can talk about it later
14:43:58 <pili> +1
14:44:11 <pili> <3 emmapeel we want to help :)
14:44:18 <antonela> ok
14:44:27 <antonela> is october done??
14:44:39 <pili> almost...
14:44:50 <antonela> lets move to november
14:45:44 <emmapeel> btw https://www.torproject.org/es/ is again in English :S
14:47:30 <antonela> pili i moved the child tickets we have in october to november, those child tickets make more sense with a parent as we have in trac
14:47:33 <pili> ok
14:48:08 <antonela> emmapeel: i see, lets continue this in tor-www?
14:48:13 <emmapeel> ok
14:48:33 <antonela> thanks
14:48:41 <pili> I was looking at the UX sponsor work for november and it seems like there's only S9 and S27 work on the radar
14:48:49 <antonela> what s30?
14:48:53 <antonela> about ^
14:49:12 <pili> looking at the timeline for S30 the UX work for this doesn't need to start until january 2020... :S
14:49:24 <pili> or is this one not correct?  https://nc.riseup.net/apps/onlyoffice/s/JQfpF2QY42ZxZgM
14:50:01 <pili> I have no issues with you working on that "early" though
14:50:39 <pili> I guess you're working closely with anti-censorship team on some of their items anyway
14:51:35 <antonela> im not actually
14:52:06 <antonela> i aim to meet with phw during the summit to discuss some ideas around O2 and O3
14:52:25 <antonela> so maybe after that we will have a better/realistic roadmapping
14:53:03 <pili> sounds good :)
14:53:15 <antonela> anything else outside sponsors during november?
14:53:18 <pili> anything else other than sponsor work that we're forgetting about? :)
14:53:20 <pili> snap :D
14:53:37 <pili> I have been thinking about it this morning, but I couldn't come up with anything else
14:53:42 <antonela> ok, good
14:53:48 <pili> that's why I'm wondering if you can think of anything else
14:53:57 <pili> I'll keep thinking though
14:53:58 <antonela> i'll be in a different timezone next week so can you lead this meeting pili?
14:54:04 <pili> yup
14:54:17 <antonela> cool, something we need is some triage for next tor browsers release
14:54:29 <antonela> if that can happen next week, it'd be ideal
14:54:57 <antonela> that is all from me
14:55:06 <antonela> anything else folks?
14:55:39 <dunqan> yup, are we still meeting next week?
14:55:47 <pili> I guess we can do that during start of month triage
14:56:15 <pili> dunqan: I can be here for people, I know I'm a poor replacement for antonela... ;)
14:56:42 <pili> we'll see how it goes and who shows up :)
14:57:02 <dunqan> haha, not a poor replacement at all!
14:57:26 <antonela> yep, up to you pili
14:57:32 <antonela> oki, thats all so
14:57:35 <antonela> thank you folks!
14:57:42 <dunqan> cool well good luck and have fun antonela ^_^
14:57:43 <antonela> #endmeeting