15:00:34 <pili> #startmeeting S27 06/04
15:00:34 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Jun  4 15:00:34 2019 UTC.  The chair is pili. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:34 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:55 <pili> hi everyone
15:00:56 <asn> hello people
15:00:57 <pili> who's around brade mcs asn dgoulet
15:01:02 <brade> hi
15:01:02 <GeKo> hi
15:01:03 * mcs is here
15:01:04 <asn> im back
15:01:06 <pili> maybe sysrqb and gaba ? :)
15:01:07 * syverson_ says hi
15:01:12 <pili> hey syverson_ !
15:01:21 <pili> and everyone else :)
15:01:22 <antonela> hello!
15:01:23 <dgoulet> hello
15:01:50 <pili> ok, here's the pad: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/acT1oJMmTXQXy4orbKn3fkL7siIjdLWmdjtB6En7fXI
15:02:53 <emmapeel> o/
15:03:10 <pili> I'll give people some time to write their updates
15:03:15 <emmapeel> oh no sorry i thought it was the release meeting. im leaving :D
15:03:30 <pili> :D
15:03:58 <pili> btw, I have next S27 meeting during the Mozilla All Hands
15:04:16 <asn> i will be at allhands
15:04:23 <pili> should we move it out by one week?
15:04:29 <asn> sounds good
15:04:55 <pili> ok, 25th June it is
15:04:56 <mcs> OK
15:06:09 <asn> done with updates
15:06:24 <asn> (for net team)
15:06:27 <gaba> o/
15:06:44 * gaba is at ooni meeting so half here
15:06:57 <pili> hi gaba, no worries, I got it covered :)
15:07:07 <pili> seems like most people are done with updates
15:07:35 <pili> any dependencies or other discussion points people want to raise with other teams?
15:07:57 <pili> I particularly wanted to understand what is needed for #30381 from UX team side :)
15:08:55 <pili> (if anything)
15:09:17 <antonela> it is related with TB auth pili, not necessarily exposed at the UI
15:09:38 <pili> ok
15:09:54 <pili> so UX won't come into play until TB auth is implemented?
15:10:01 <pili> or not at all?
15:10:20 <asn> only if there is a particular feature we need from the UX that these commands won't support
15:10:23 <pili> if not at all, I'll remove the ux team label if that's ok :)
15:10:26 <pili> ah ok
15:10:55 <pili> so it sounds like there is some discussion that needs to happen on this
15:10:56 <pili> but maybe a bit further down the line?
15:11:19 <pili> once network team gets a review from tb team I guess
15:11:20 <mcs> I think we eventually will need to expose UI to allow users to see what keys are stored and to remove them
15:11:32 <asn> this is possible with the commands as they are
15:11:37 <asn> using VIEW and REMOVE
15:11:47 <mcs> I don’t see us having time from the browser team side until after the ESR68 transition
15:11:56 <asn> when is that?
15:12:03 <mcs> asn: yes, I think you have provided the API we will need.
15:12:04 <pili> July - September... :/
15:12:08 <asn> ok
15:12:18 <mcs> ADD will be used much sooner :)
15:12:19 <pili> (see "Important Dates" in the pad :D )
15:12:29 <mcs> (triggered from the auth prompt)
15:12:40 <asn> ok
15:12:55 <mcs> We can experiment soon with VIEW and REMOVE to make sure they will meet our needs.
15:13:02 <asn> sounds good
15:13:14 <antonela> cool, do we need a new ticket for it?
15:13:17 <asn> i think we are gonna be focusing on DoS stuff in the meanwhile with david, since we have neglected them while we tried to de-block the TB team
15:13:30 <pili> asn: do you need to wait for a full review on VIEW and REMOVE from TB in order to move on with that or can it wait?
15:13:39 <mcs> antonela: probably yes we should create a new ticket for a simple management UI
15:13:42 <pili> or as antonela said we create a new ticket for those parts to be done after
15:13:51 <antonela> mcs super, that is what i got from https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/30237#comment:15
15:14:01 <asn> pili: "move on with that" what do you mean?
15:14:55 <pili> the ticket is on needs_review atm, do you need the review in order to add to some release before we are done with ESR68 transition?
15:15:06 <asn> hm
15:15:10 <pili> or is it ok to remain open until the tb team can pick it up again after ESR68 transition
15:15:18 <asn> dgoulet: what do you think?
15:15:22 <pili> or should we split ADD from REMOVE and VIEW
15:15:27 <pili> into different tickets
15:15:30 <asn> good questions
15:15:34 <mcs> Kathy and I already reviewed the spec, so I think the network team has met our needs with VIEW and REMOVE.
15:15:41 <pili> so maybe you can add ADD to an earlier release
15:15:45 <pili> ok
15:15:54 <mcs> But integration into tor could wait if that makes sense.
15:16:25 <asn> i guess we could split it up
15:16:28 <asn> if needed
15:16:33 <asn> or we could just merge it all in
15:16:36 <dgoulet> asn: not sure I parse the question...
15:16:41 <dgoulet> asn: wait for what?
15:16:48 <asn> #30381
15:16:50 <asn> add/view/remove
15:16:55 <asn> my ticket
15:17:10 <asn> seems like the tb team wont have time to test view/remove before september
15:17:19 <asn> do we just merge it anyway, or do we wait for them?
15:17:19 <dgoulet> ooook
15:17:26 <dgoulet> lets merge it
15:17:27 <mcs> We can test but not write shipping code :)
15:17:28 <asn> ok
15:17:31 <asn> lets merge it i agree
15:17:36 <pili> ok, sounds like we have a plan :)
15:17:38 <pili> good
15:17:49 <asn> mcs: sounds good
15:17:54 <antonela> if we have any suggestion during the implementation, we can open a new ticket
15:18:01 <asn> agreed
15:18:12 <pili> shall we move on?
15:18:15 <asn> yes
15:18:28 <pili> GeKo: for #30599 do we need UX team help?
15:18:55 <pili> wondering whether to add ux-team label to it so that it's on antonela 's radar
15:19:10 <GeKo> not sure yet
15:19:43 <GeKo> right now there are no alt-svc requests visible in the circuit display
15:19:48 <GeKo> which is kind of interesting
15:20:13 <pili> should there be? (forgive my ignorance :) )
15:20:21 <antonela> ye, and we are talking a bit about it at #30024 geko
15:20:23 <GeKo> or mabye they actually are but get overlapped by orthogonal ones
15:20:26 <GeKo> yes
15:20:32 <GeKo> pili: maybe!
15:20:53 <antonela> ideally, that ticket allows me to parse all the circuit display scenarios available and have an UI for each them
15:20:54 <GeKo> that's what #27590 is about for instance
15:21:11 <antonela> ye
15:21:35 <syverson_> We have a simple UI already built that does this FYI.
15:21:47 <GeKo> i think it should display them as requests are made
15:22:06 <syverson_> "We" equals Matt equals pastly and me.
15:22:11 <GeKo> but right now what users see are validation requests to the alt-svc host instead
15:22:28 <antonela> wonders the we and the where syverson_
15:22:34 <GeKo> so at some point we need to balance that
15:22:39 <antonela> geko, agreed
15:22:51 <GeKo> otherise confusions like #30599 come up
15:23:10 <GeKo> but i have not thought much about that yet
15:23:19 <antonela> syverson_: could you share it at some of the mentioned tickets?
15:24:07 <pili> GeKo: ok, I have added ux-team keyword for now, no harm in having it on UX team radar
15:24:13 <syverson_> Looking for where it is on pastly's github. (Assuming it's been made public there.)
15:24:22 <antonela> syverson_ thanks!
15:25:40 <pili> ok
15:26:09 <syverson_> https://github.com/pastly/satis-selfauth-domains
15:26:20 <pili> seems like we need to do some more investigation/research on this alt-svc stuff
15:26:48 <syverson_> It doesn't say much about the alt-svc piece but the webext is there.
15:27:03 <pili> anyone have any other comments on this before we move on?
15:27:13 <syverson_> We will have a presentation about this at HotPETs.
15:27:16 <asn> i havent had time to look at all into o2a3 so i dont have much to say here
15:27:28 <asn> we've been really busy with o2a1 and o1a2 so far...
15:27:41 <asn> i'd like to contribute, but unfortunately i dont have much feedback :)
15:27:48 <pili> asn: that's fine, sounds good for now
15:28:09 <pili> anything you want to discuss from UX side antonela ?
15:28:27 <pili> syverson_: I think asn will be staying on for PETs
15:28:54 <pili> that's on the 15th July though, right?
15:28:57 <antonela> nope, im fine
15:29:10 <pili> ok, anyone have any stakeholder updates?
15:29:19 <pili> anything from CF or FB or any others? :)
15:29:23 <asn> we will be busy on dos stuff with dgoulet
15:29:34 <syverson_> HotPETs is the last day of PETS. Will of course also discuss at tordev meeting.
15:29:49 <pili> aaah, I thought it was the pre-PETs day :)
15:30:06 <pili> syverson_: sounds good, thanks :)
15:30:31 <pili> syverson_: do you have any updates yourself as a stakeholder?
15:31:51 <syverson_> Not that I've thought enough about to state succinctly and coherently :>)
15:32:08 <pili> that's fine :)
15:32:19 <pili> sounds like no one else has any other stakeholder updates
15:32:55 <pili> anything else anyone would like to discuss related to this project?
15:33:44 <antonela> some roadmapping remainder? what is next? I will continue with onion suggestions and errors
15:34:21 <antonela> s/remainder/reminder
15:36:37 <pili> sure
15:36:56 <pili> one sec
15:38:55 <pili> so from TB side I have O2A2 and O2A4 implementation starting up again in October after ESR68 transition
15:39:01 <pili> and possibly O2A5 also
15:39:14 <pili> depending on who will take that on and if it can be done in parallel
15:39:37 <pili> antonela: I have you working on O2A3 until July also
15:39:59 <pili> and the corresponding TB implementation starting in December
15:40:08 <pili> but we can shuffle things around
15:40:19 <antonela> yes, perfect
15:41:21 <pili> I think network and tb teams don't have any other dependencies in particular (other than the O2A1 work) and can more or less be working independently
15:43:08 <syverson_> antonela if you are working on 02A3 until July, we should sync.
15:43:37 <antonela> sure thing syverson_
15:44:55 <syverson_> I'll just hurt myself if I try to do anything over IRC right now. Will email you when S27 meeting is over to get that going.
15:45:10 <pili> :)
15:46:31 <pili> ok, anything else from anyone?
15:46:56 <pili> doubts, comments, onion service related jokes?
15:47:15 <asn> im good
15:47:17 <asn> no jokes
15:47:20 <asn> this is serious business
15:47:29 <syverson_> Good one.
15:47:37 <pili> :)
15:47:46 <pili> ok, I'm going to end the meeting then
15:47:49 <mcs> thx
15:47:52 <pili> #endmeeting