15:59:13 <flexlibris> #startmeeting community team
15:59:13 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jul 30 15:59:13 2018 UTC.  The chair is flexlibris. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:59:13 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:59:21 <flexlibris> kushal yikes that is hot!
15:59:27 * kushal is here for the meeting.
15:59:40 <flexlibris> okay here is our roadmap link: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/hwK5GyNeaWh_RwQlGf2wcQGLg2aozCvJcIqS8dwTlB6
15:59:42 <emmapeel> 42 average?
15:59:55 <flexlibris> I think this will be a shorter meeting since a few people are missing bc of PETS travel
16:00:03 * flexlibris looks at roadmap
16:00:05 * kushal has one update
16:00:24 <flexlibris> let's check on roadmap progress and then do updates
16:00:55 <flexlibris> ggus: I saw your email about the support portal update workflow
16:00:59 <flexlibris> I know I haven't responded yet but
16:01:21 <flexlibris> it looked good from skimming it.
16:01:32 <flexlibris> I would add something into the workflow about checking the user advocate spreadsheet from that month
16:01:38 <flexlibris> because that is where I get a lot of support portal additions
16:01:55 <flexlibris> I will send a more substantial reply to that mail as soon as I have a moment but that is an initial thought
16:02:44 <flexlibris> ggus I know you have also been doing a lot of work on the Mexico City meeting open days, but we can wait to talk about that during the next hour's meeting :)
16:02:49 <ggus> yes, isa told me about this too, but i forgot to include. the user spreadsheet will be updated after cy internship by the user advocate person, right?
16:03:24 <flexlibris> ggus: yep, it will be the mozilla fellow after that
16:03:25 <kushal> Can we get a video call during the mexico meetings? does not have to be public, private links will do :)
16:03:32 * antonela o/
16:03:39 <ggus> flexlibris: one quick question
16:03:44 <flexlibris> kushal: we have had one in the past for a few attendees in a few sessions
16:03:57 <flexlibris> if you can let me and Jon know what sessions you want to see we can try to make it work
16:03:58 <ggus> do you think we include translation things here or this should be in UX roadmap?
16:04:07 <flexlibris> ggus: let's put them here too
16:04:13 <flexlibris> better to duplicate
16:04:16 <flexlibris> so it doesn't get missed
16:04:19 <ggus> ok!, ey, emmapeel^
16:04:24 <emmapeel> dime
16:04:29 <kushal> flexlibris, Thank you, I will talk to you after meeting.
16:04:55 <emmapeel> yes ... not sure what i am supposed to say :D we were working on a blogpost with stephw and i sent a call inside transifex
16:05:00 <emmapeel> french and spanish are ready
16:05:31 <emmapeel> they need some reviewing though
16:05:31 <ggus> if you have a roadmap for translations, add here: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/hwK5GyNeaWh_RwQlGf2wcQGLg2aozCvJcIqS8dwTlB6
16:05:49 <ggus> or, you could add what you have done in july
16:06:06 <flexlibris> and also look for dependencies, like we have the TBA manual creation, that will need to get translated
16:06:36 <flexlibris> another roadmap thing for July -- ggus and I have been working on the desktop docs for TB 8.0
16:06:43 <flexlibris> those are almost finished, we just need to share our screenshots
16:06:53 <flexlibris> and then we will begin working on the Android stuff
16:07:02 <emmapeel> TBA manual? is that part of tb-manual? i wish documents will have other langs translated
16:07:06 <emmapeel> can we talk about that here?
16:07:21 <flexlibris> emmapeel: yeah TBA will be Tor Browser Android manual
16:07:26 <emmapeel> i mean..... i would like tb-manual to have other languages linked from the docs
16:07:31 <flexlibris> and yes we can talk about that here
16:07:53 <flexlibris> the tb-manual.torproject.org is supposed to have that but the translations have always been wonky
16:08:05 <flexlibris> I don't know if that is an issue with transifex or what
16:08:11 <emmapeel> to have, on each documentation page, a link to the same doc on other languages
16:08:17 <flexlibris> yes
16:08:34 <emmapeel> tb-manual is translated but is hard to access the other translations, and it is not linked anywhere on the website
16:08:46 <flexlibris> yes and the translations aren't even complete on most of the non-EN manuals
16:08:55 <flexlibris> or they used to not be
16:09:05 <flexlibris> so how do we fix this
16:09:15 <ggus> > it is not linked anywhere on the website
16:09:22 <ggus> yeah, we need to add this!!
16:10:14 <emmapeel> i send an email to some list the other day and somebody offered help with mallard, the yet-another-site-generator the tb-manual is written in
16:10:33 <emmapeel> but i have not followed up on this
16:10:43 <ggus> (hm, jaruga isn't online now)
16:10:55 <ggus> i didn't know we have an alpha version...
16:10:59 <ggus> of tb-manual
16:11:05 <flexlibris> we do?
16:11:29 <emmapeel> in the meantime, people can help translating the tb-manual at transifexx
16:11:44 <ggus> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-community-team/2018-July/000201.html
16:12:54 <flexlibris> ggus we haven't even figured out where the TBA manual is going to live
16:13:15 <flexlibris> since we have eventual goals for all this content to be on support.torproject.org and probably also linked from community.tpo
16:13:18 <emmapeel> it is hard for me to understand where to push for this, if at the community team, the ux team, or the tbb team...
16:13:23 <flexlibris> but in the meantime it's hard to find
16:13:33 <flexlibris> emmapeel: push for manual translations?
16:13:55 <emmapeel> in the webpage of the torproject there is no link to any language other than english
16:14:01 <emmapeel> and i think we have a lot of content on other languages
16:14:04 <antonela> i think community.tpo is a good hub for manuals
16:14:12 <emmapeel> and it would be low hanging fruit jus tto link it there somewhere
16:14:16 <ggus> who takes cares of the dog called tb-manual :)
16:14:19 <emmapeel> before the supergreat new webpage happens
16:14:42 <emmapeel> you go to https://www.torproject.org/docs/documentation.html.en and its only in english
16:14:49 <emmapeel> that is not very global-south friendly
16:15:03 <emmapeel> there is a manuals section... they could be there
16:15:19 <flexlibris> emmapeel yeah I totally agree
16:15:26 <flexlibris> those documentation pages are a mess overall
16:15:32 <emmapeel> instead of the copy of the man page that appearas right now
16:15:42 <flexlibris> the manual linked from the main page isn't even the same manual we're talking about
16:15:55 <antonela> yes, is a dev docs
16:16:00 <emmapeel> so, who takes care of that page and how can we make that person link the much better manuals we have?
16:16:13 <emmapeel> :D:D
16:17:04 <flexlibris> hiro?
16:17:32 <emmapeel> antonela: https://community.torproject.org/ gives me a 404
16:17:40 <flexlibris> emmapeel it's not up yet
16:17:48 <flexlibris> but there are mockups
16:18:13 <antonela> https://marvelapp.com/project/2397265/
16:18:53 <flexlibris> so who can get that added on the website? hiro? weasel?
16:19:14 <flexlibris> the old website is such a mess that I don't even try to fix things on it anymore, I just make a note of something for the new site redesign.
16:19:20 <antonela> +1
16:19:32 <ggus> we're in a gap moment between the old and the new website :|
16:19:45 <flexlibris> but I think emmapeel is right, this is a small change that we can make right now that is a good stopgap before the new site
16:19:52 <emmapeel> i have heard the same since 3 years ago when i started asking for this link :)
16:20:10 <flexlibris> emmapeel I know, it's sad but true
16:20:23 <antonela> we are making it now! :D
16:20:45 <flexlibris> emmapeel: I think just open a ticket and tag it website
16:20:51 <flexlibris> and it will automagically get done
16:20:52 <emmapeel> i think it would be super easy to swap the content of https://www.torproject.org/docs for a list of links
16:20:57 <antonela> emmapeel, lets see if hiro can do it. Let's open a ticket with her name
16:21:02 <antonela> ye that
16:21:29 <ggus> emmapeel: we can work on this changes and then we open the ticket
16:21:52 <ggus> add: tb-manual link in download page, for example
16:22:07 <flexlibris> yes
16:22:25 <flexlibris> and then once we have the TBA content we'll send it to transifex
16:22:49 * flexlibris looks through other roadmap items
16:23:29 <flexlibris> okay so a lot of the un-updated items are Phoul's and he is traveling home from PETS
16:23:57 <ggus> i suggest this workflow: today or tomorrow we talk here or at #tor-south, write all the things in a pad, transform in tickets in trac.tpo, and then we report these tickets at community-team mailing list
16:24:25 <emmapeel> ggus: agreed!
16:24:40 <ggus> :D
16:24:43 <flexlibris> tomorrow at 1700?
16:24:44 <flexlibris> UTC
16:24:47 <emmapeel> also maybe we can bug hiro to update https://support-staging.torproject.org/
16:25:15 <ggus> flexlibris: works for me
16:25:22 <emmapeel> with the current repo with more languages so we can test the languages
16:26:06 <flexlibris> so just to recap, it sounds like this meeting will be about updating the website doc pages to reflect more current and translated resources, particularly the manual?
16:26:16 <flexlibris> soon to be manuals
16:26:36 <ggus> yes!
16:26:39 <flexlibris> great
16:26:55 <flexlibris> tomorrow 1700 UTC, if this room is taken we will use #tor-south
16:27:17 <flexlibris> and let's make sure jaruga is there
16:27:36 <flexlibris> okay so as for other roadmap stuff....
16:27:48 <flexlibris> most of the un-updated items are Phoul's and he's in transit home from PETS
16:28:06 * ggus has updates about kenya logistics
16:28:15 <flexlibris> I don't really have more updates, I am still working on my ongoing stuff like LFI and Mexico meeting planning and support docs
16:28:23 <flexlibris> kushal had an update then ggus you can go
16:28:30 <ggus> ok!
16:30:03 <flexlibris> kushal?
16:30:46 <emmapeel> oops sorry i will be flying most of the day tomorrow... not sure i can attend this meeting
16:31:08 <flexlibris> emmapeel what's another day that works for you?
16:31:14 <flexlibris> ggus I think we lost kushal, so you can go ahead
16:31:52 <ggus> last friday helen and i booked our flights to kenya to the end of august. our itinerary: mombasa and then nairobi.
16:31:58 <flexlibris> woooo
16:31:58 <emmapeel> wed Aug 1st works for me
16:32:03 <flexlibris> what are the final dates ggus?
16:32:29 <ggus> august 28th - sept 09
16:32:35 <flexlibris> ggus emmapeel I can do August 1 at 1700 UTC
16:32:53 <flexlibris> ggus: great! how many groups are you scheduled to meet with?
16:33:51 <ggus> one group in mombasa, and in kenya we're still scheduling all the activities. we're going to rent a room, because we couldn't find (yet) a partner to host the workshops
16:34:01 <flexlibris> cool
16:34:10 <flexlibris> so excited for you
16:34:11 <ggus> in nairobi we have at least three distincts groups
16:34:19 <kushal> sorry
16:34:28 <flexlibris> that's okay kushal you can go after ggus
16:34:32 <ggus> flexlibris: i'm very excited to this!!! :D even dreaming.
16:34:38 <flexlibris> yeah it's amazing!
16:34:40 <flexlibris> take lots of pics
16:34:45 <ggus> hahah! sure!
16:34:55 <ggus> eat all the food.
16:35:00 <flexlibris> yes
16:35:13 <flexlibris> if you're finished ggus then kushal can go
16:35:22 <ggus> https://giphy.com/gifs/fantastic-mr-fox-QvRS8N8VwGy1G
16:35:27 <ggus> ok, done.
16:35:33 <kushal> I got a call from ISP (Siti Network, who was blocking Tor in Kolkata) and they
16:35:34 <kushal> said that they cleared the blockade for my account there. They got the pressure
16:35:34 <kushal> from the TRAI (I made a complain to TRAI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRAI).
16:35:48 <kushal> At first they tried to tell wrong things (like: because Tor works as a VPN, it
16:35:48 <kushal> never worked before). I am planning to write another blog specially asking
16:35:48 <kushal> folks from Kolkata to test using OONI and provide feedback if Tor is allowed
16:35:48 <kushal> by default or not.
16:35:59 <kushal> ^^ any tips/suggestions?
16:36:18 <flexlibris> do you have a sense of what they're blocking?
16:36:33 <emmapeel> kushal: i installed the ooni app for android and worked quite well (from fdroid store)
16:36:40 <kushal> flexlibris, IPs, we published a blog post around a month back.
16:36:55 <kushal> emmapeel, yup
16:37:01 <flexlibris> do any of the censorship circumvention methods work?
16:37:14 <kushal> flexlibris, Yes, but they were asking for money to make it easy.
16:37:34 <kushal> flexlibris, most of the default bridges were blocked.
16:37:38 <kushal> but, new ones worked.
16:37:41 * ggus forgot to talk about translators swags topic. _o/
16:37:46 <flexlibris> who was asking for money?
16:37:54 <kushal> flexlibris, ISP
16:37:58 <ggus> the isp
16:38:03 <kushal> To remove any restrictions
16:38:11 <flexlibris> wowww
16:38:26 <flexlibris> how much money?
16:38:44 <kushal> flexlibris, https://blog.torproject.org/siti-networks-india-wants-me-pay-unblock-tor
16:39:30 <kushal> flexlibris, not sure about the actual amount, but that is for static IP, means more than most of the users can ever pay.
16:40:18 <flexlibris> ah right. yeah, you should do an update to this post then and that can be a call to action for other users to test with OONI
16:40:54 <ggus> one thing about this
16:40:55 <kushal> Okay, thank you.
16:41:15 * Samdney hast to go. See you.
16:41:43 <ggus> ooni app can't make the test 'vanilla tor connections'. you can do this using ooni desktop. or i'm wrong?
16:42:32 <kushal> ggus, I was using desktop
16:42:35 <flexlibris> they do have a vanilla tor test
16:42:45 <ggus> in the app?
16:42:53 <irl> my understanding is that they want it in the app, but it's not there yet
16:43:00 <flexlibris> https://ooni.torproject.org/nettest/vanilla-tor/
16:43:05 <flexlibris> yeah so maybe just desktop
16:43:07 <irl> at least i wasn't seeing results from mobile when i looked last week
16:43:14 <irl> so it'd have to be a very recent thing
16:43:35 <emmapeel> i have one called web connectivity but i dont see any tor test
16:43:46 <emmapeel> (in ooni for android from the fdroid store)
16:43:54 <irl> they did talk about using tcp_connect test as a fake vanilla tor test
16:44:04 <irl> e.g. can i tcp connect to a relay/bridge?
16:44:04 <ggus> thanks irl! :)
16:44:36 <irl> it's definitely still worth asking people to install the app because then when the test is available, people update and we get more data straight away
16:46:41 <flexlibris> yeah I think update the original post with instructions for how to test at the top
16:46:46 <flexlibris> kushal ^^
16:46:49 <kushal> Okay
16:46:51 <kushal> Thanks
16:46:54 <kushal> done from me.
16:47:05 <flexlibris> anyone else?
16:47:09 <ggus> yes o/
16:47:16 <flexlibris> ah right go ahead ggus!
16:47:22 <ggus> we started to discuss about tor swags for translators
16:47:27 <flexlibris> yes
16:47:41 <ggus> so, what how we should do this
16:47:46 <emmapeel> yes yes we want goodies for translators
16:48:03 <flexlibris> so what's the threshold we want for getting them swag?
16:48:09 <emmapeel> i remember a while ago phoul offered me some swag actually
16:48:18 <emmapeel> because of my translation work
16:48:25 <flexlibris> like, so many strings translated, so much time spent?
16:48:29 <emmapeel> so maybe this decision has already been taken a while ago
16:48:49 <flexlibris> emmapeel: it was one of those things that people always wanted to do but we didn't have the capacity to do regularly
16:48:50 <emmapeel> i think it should be when people kinda owns the project in some way
16:48:55 <flexlibris> so I think it happened here and there
16:48:55 <emmapeel> works on it, spends time on it
16:49:17 <flexlibris> yes definitely
16:49:54 <flexlibris> so how do we want to define that? and then where do we advertise this perk?
16:50:17 <emmapeel> but sometimes people is not only translating,  but suggesting correction, helping new translators with nice explanations, etc
16:50:23 <ggus> i don't know if advertise is a good thing...
16:50:41 <flexlibris> I meant only in the sense that like, relay operators know that they get a tshirt after a while
16:50:54 <emmapeel> not sure we need to advertise it
16:51:09 <flexlibris> kat5 has a program for recognizing outstanding volunteers, maybe we just want to make this part of that
16:51:15 <flexlibris> her program has two tiers
16:51:28 <emmapeel> it would be part of that, of course
16:51:33 <flexlibris> one for someone doing a regular good job and one for someone doing a really good job
16:51:44 <flexlibris> so in that case you'd just nominate the person to Kat and she'd take care of it
16:52:15 <emmapeel> ok, for what phoul asked me, i should get a post address
16:53:21 <flexlibris> emmapeel here is the original ticket for what kat is doing: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/24148
16:53:39 <emmapeel> cheers flexlibris
16:54:06 <flexlibris> okay anything else to discuss?
16:54:12 <ggus> i'm good
16:54:22 <flexlibris> if not then I will get myself more coffee and get ready to meet in the other tor meeting room for the Mexico City planning meeting
16:55:23 <flexlibris> okay cool people! i'm killing the bot! come help us plan for mexico city!! :)
16:55:26 <flexlibris> #endmeeting