20:04:06 <flexlibris> #startmeeting 20:04:06 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Apr 18 20:04:06 2018 UTC. The chair is flexlibris. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:04:06 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 20:04:35 <flexlibris> sukhe kat5 either of you have an update? 20:04:53 <sukhe> I can go first, very quick update 20:04:57 <flexlibris> go ahead 20:05:06 * ilv is lurking (in another meeting atm) 20:05:57 <sukhe> there is an update regarding Toronto Public Library Tor Browser pilot but I am not sure what all is public yet so I will wait for further information 20:06:14 <flexlibris> :) 20:07:15 <arma4> oh hey community team mtg 20:07:25 <flexlibris> hey arma4 20:07:29 <sukhe> also, Toronto has two events coming up, RightsCon and then Citizen Lab Summer Institute. stephw has been leading the RightsCon thing so she should have more information 20:07:29 <flexlibris> sukhe did you have more or is that it? 20:07:43 <flexlibris> sorry for interrupting! 20:07:48 <sukhe> for Citizen Lab Summer Institute, I will be there so will be good to coordinate for that as well 20:07:58 <sukhe> np! 20:08:05 <sukhe> that's it from me 20:08:10 <arma4> sukhe: what's the deadline for signing up to the citizen lab thing? 20:08:22 <arma4> we should try to get some tor people to go 20:08:27 <arma4> (usually it's just the ooni folks) 20:08:27 <sukhe> arma4: it was March 30 20:08:29 <arma4> whoops 20:08:36 <kat5> arma4: My understanding is that it's an application, not just signing up. 20:08:41 <arma4> kat5: right 20:08:52 <sukhe> yeah I realized I should have been more vocal but there were Tor people last year (OONI mostly, and ilv) 20:09:05 * arma4 adds "make a calendar of future community deadlines" to somebody's pad or todo list or something 20:09:18 <sukhe> I should have asked before I guess and not assumed 20:09:26 * sukhe notes this for the future 20:09:43 <flexlibris> I didn't even know about it! 20:09:48 <t0mmy> flexlibris hi, sorry I'm glate 20:09:52 <t0mmy> er, late 20:09:52 <flexlibris> t0mmy hi! 20:10:17 <sukhe> sorry :( and yes it was an application, with basic questions on what you will contribute and all 20:10:29 <sukhe> maybe we should find a way to coordinate for future events 20:10:40 <sysrqb> do they usually accept "everyone" or is it limited? 20:10:52 <arma4> sukhe: maybe we re-use the blog event calendar as a start? 20:11:00 <sysrqb> (everyone being all the reasonable applicants) 20:11:07 <arma4> sysrqb: in the past you had to write like a page about what you're doing in the space 20:11:11 <sukhe> sysrqb: I am not sure but last year they had 76 peple attending 20:11:20 <arma4> so it's a proof of work, at the least 20:11:20 <sysrqb> okay 20:11:46 <arma4> it is possible that we could still squeak some people in, this year. they like tor at least in theory. "we screwed up and missed your deadline but here we are" could be made to work. 20:11:51 <sukhe> arma4: so do you mean just adding the events to the blog in general? 20:12:03 <arma4> sukhe: adding both the event and also the event's deadline. so two "events". 20:12:18 <sukhe> right ok, that seems like a good idea 20:12:32 <arma4> it's an easy hack until somebody produces a better one 20:12:52 * arma4 stops talking to he doesn't accidentally produce half the lines in the mtg 20:13:03 <flexlibris> your lines are welcome arma4 20:13:13 <flexlibris> I'm thinking about this as something for community.torproject.org 20:13:19 <flexlibris> we have talked about having a community calendar there 20:13:30 * flexlibris adds it to the list of stuff that will go on that site 20:13:47 <sukhe> I am also not proposing a session yet for Citizen Lab but just attending it, mostly to learn. if they ask for a session later, we can plan something 20:13:54 <sysrqb> +1 for community.tpo 20:14:37 <arma4> community calendar would be awesome. sticking stuff on the blog is nice and all but not a real fix. 20:14:42 <flexlibris> yeah 20:15:00 <flexlibris> ideally we have some kind of setup that can accept outside contributions 20:15:01 * dmr would love a community calendar 20:15:02 <flexlibris> with some light moderation 20:15:12 <flexlibris> awesome 20:15:15 <sysrqb> yeah 20:15:38 * ggus arrives. 20:15:41 <ggus> hi! 20:15:45 <flexlibris> hi ggus! 20:15:47 <sysrqb> hi! 20:16:03 <flexlibris> speaking of community.tpo 20:16:07 <sysrqb> if i'm not interrupting, flexlibris any news about HOPE? 20:16:34 <flexlibris> something I have not had any time for but need to do soon is make our roadmap for the next six months. so if you want to help me with that let me know. coming up with a gameplan for community.tpo with the UX team is part of it. 20:16:37 <flexlibris> sysrqb: nathan 20:16:43 <flexlibris> which means nothing 20:16:59 <sysrqb> flexlibris: k, figured :) :/ 20:17:09 <flexlibris> is that normal for HOPE? 20:17:12 <flexlibris> I've never submitted before 20:17:30 <sysrqb> dunno, same. maybe asn or dgoulet or gman999 know from their submissions (?) 20:17:39 <flexlibris> yeah maybe 20:17:57 <flexlibris> I tried to follow up and got an autoresponse weeks ago 20:17:58 <flexlibris> so 20:18:02 <sysrqb> eh. 20:18:05 <sysrqb> you can only do so much 20:18:13 * flexlibris breathes a sigh of relief 20:18:15 <flexlibris> :) 20:18:16 <sysrqb> if they drag their feet, so be it 20:18:20 <flexlibris> okay anyone else have an update? 20:18:29 <arma4> flexlibris: oh, speaking of deadlines. the defcon talk deadline is coming up. 20:18:34 <flexlibris> arma4: yes! 20:18:56 <ggus> I have one: a lot of tor talks happening in cryptorave + isabela keynote 20:19:07 <sysrqb> (yay!) 20:19:13 <flexlibris> arma4: I know that Steph is planning to attend, and she was looking into booth space 20:19:19 <flexlibris> but I don't know if there's anyone who wants to give a talk 20:19:24 <flexlibris> I can ask around though if you don't know of anyone 20:19:28 <flexlibris> and ggus yes please go ahead 20:20:29 <ggus> the schedule is almost done/public. I'll send to the list all the tor talks/workshops, so we can publish in the blog and in the calendar 20:20:36 <arma4> flexlibris: i connected steph to straithe, who is helping with the cryptovillage. i hope they succeed at making good plans. they could probably use some help. 20:20:47 <flexlibris> arma4: okay I'll follow up with her 20:20:59 <arma4> flexlibris: (the idea is that we occupy the cryptovillage post 5pm on some of the days, since they were just planning to close up shop and go drinking or something) 20:20:59 <kat5> straithe is awesome. 20:21:01 <stephw> yes, would appreciate some help with planning thanks! just originally had a booth in mind 20:21:17 <flexlibris> stephw I'll follow up with you :D 20:21:23 <flexlibris> ggus: that's awesome 20:21:29 <flexlibris> can't wait to see the Tor talks 20:22:49 * Samdney arrives. (sorry I forgot the new time) 20:22:59 <ggus> so, because cryptorave, i'm very away from the mailing lists. i'll try to read the emails this weekend. (end) 20:23:10 <flexlibris> understandable ggus :) 20:23:15 <flexlibris> good luck with planning 20:23:19 <flexlibris> anything we can help with? 20:23:27 <kat5> I can go next. 20:23:51 <flexlibris> go ahead kat5 20:24:13 <kat5> We successfully sent our first swag to a nominated volunteer. So that's great. 20:24:21 <flexlibris> yesss 20:24:53 <kat5> But that's the only nomination we've had, so the teams are probably not actually trying very hard to think of anyone. 20:25:04 <flexlibris> kat5: was it the one that came from us? 20:25:17 <flexlibris> maybe we can send a reminder to tor-project@ or tor-team@ 20:25:22 <ggus> ps: if you curious of where isa and others are going to talk in cryptorave, this is the place -> http://cinemateca.gov.br/pagina/espacos 20:25:34 <kat5> I'm thinking about what to do about that, but am about to be away for ~10 days, so I probably won't do anything until May. 20:26:03 <flexlibris> ggus: this looks like a great space 20:26:07 <kat5> flexlibris: yes. It was to sukhe's contact at the Toronto Public Library. 20:26:12 <flexlibris> kat5: !! 20:26:17 <flexlibris> oh but didn't we also nominate nusenu? 20:26:28 <kat5> I never heard anything from you about that. 20:26:30 <flexlibris> kat5: Jonathon Hodge is also highly deserving so I'm glad he got it 20:26:42 <flexlibris> oh sorry, do I need to send an email to you? 20:27:21 <arma4> kat5: the network team made a secret pad to discuss it, so they didn't have to discuss it in front of volunteers. then i added a bunch of names to it. and i guess nothing happened. so close! 20:27:33 <kat5> You need to tell them to contact tshirt@ and tell me that you did so. 20:27:41 <flexlibris> okay will do 20:27:47 <kat5> Then we go from there. 20:27:58 <kat5> arma4: great! 20:28:04 * flexlibris is on it 20:28:49 <flexlibris> anyone else have an update? 20:28:56 <ainslie> Yes. 20:29:08 <flexlibris> ainslie: go ahead 20:29:22 <ainslie> I submitted ethics forms to the ethics research board for the term paper I'd like to do. Its been accepted as-is aside from the fact that I forgot about responsible disclosure. 20:29:41 <ainslie> It seems that the mailing list set up for responsible disclosure no longer exists. 20:29:49 <ainslie> https://www.torproject.org/about/contact.html.en#security 20:29:59 <ainslie> https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-security 20:30:09 <ainslie> It should be set up again. 20:30:10 <flexlibris> hmm really 20:30:15 <flexlibris> arma4 do you know what happened? 20:30:37 <kat5> I think it's a private list. 20:30:49 <kat5> So that stuff people send isn't public. 20:30:58 <flexlibris> kat5: it's listed here to be able to contact with their GPG key 20:31:20 <kat5> Yeah. There's no mailman page because it's just meant to receive vuln reports. 20:31:31 <kat5> There are a handful of Tor people on it. 20:31:36 <kat5> That was my undrstanding. 20:31:52 <arma4> that list works. 20:31:56 <arma4> i tested it last night. 20:32:02 <flexlibris> ainslie what happened when you contacted it? 20:32:16 <ainslie> Okay. I thought that the mailing list didn't exist or it had been deleted. 20:32:27 <flexlibris> oh, I'm misunderstanding then 20:32:33 <flexlibris> I thought you tried to reach them and it bounced or something 20:32:42 <ainslie> No. 20:32:47 <flexlibris> ah ok 20:33:02 <arma4> it's actually not a mailman list, it's some schleuder monstrosity 20:33:13 <flexlibris> I just noticed that ainslie posted a mailman list above 20:33:26 <ainslie> I thought I'd be required to subscribe to the mailing list to post messages but I got confused because I couldn't subscribe to it. 20:33:56 <arma4> needing to be on the list where people report security vulnerabilities...in order to use it...would be very weird indeed. 20:35:45 <ainslie> I'm keen to do the term paper on an official or semi-official basis because a lot of the tools I'd like to use are unaffordable as an independent researcher or require organisational affiliation to obtain or be in receipt of time-limited trial licenses. 20:36:15 <arma4> official meaning part of your org? or official meaning part of tor? 20:36:44 <ainslie> I mean as a part of The Tor Project. 20:37:21 <ainslie> I'm an unaffiliated independent researcher. 20:37:42 <flexlibris> ainslie: so we have an official process for becoming a core contributor to Tor, one sec 20:38:01 <arma4> are you asking in a roundabout way for funding to pay for the tools? i still don't understand what you're needing 20:38:09 <flexlibris> https://gitweb.torproject.org/community/policies.git/tree/membership.txt 20:40:05 <ainslie> I don't anticipate needing financial help for the tool sets I'd like to use but formal affiliation might help as it might be possible to ask for donations of licenses in-kind. 20:41:42 <flexlibris> does "formal affiliation" mean saying "I'm a Tor person" or is there some commitment from Tor as well? 20:42:13 <arma4> one way forward might be to find a tor person to team up with. that could be good for a number of reasons. but also maybe a bit hard since so many tor people are busy. 20:42:38 <arma4> (if we call you a tor person, and then you do something that wasn't what we would have done, things get messy.) 20:43:06 <Samdney> +1 20:43:24 <arma4> the membership guidelines that flexlibris pointed to are also worth reading. they're designed so that you get called a tor person *after* you do the useful things, not right before you start. 20:43:45 <ainslie> I don't anticipate commitments from The Tor Project itself but I'd like to join The Tor Project on an official basis but of course discussion about it is useful. 20:44:00 <ainslie> Thanks. I appreciate the clarification. 20:44:02 <flexlibris> I recommend reading the guidelines above then, as a start 20:44:39 <flexlibris> okay, anyone else have an update? if not I will share mine 20:44:48 <ilv> i have a brief one 20:45:03 <flexlibris> ilv: go ahead 20:45:08 <ilv> as you might have seen i've been trying to push the idea of a tor-es mailing list 20:45:17 <ilv> I still have some emails and tickets to reply, hope to do that soon. It seems there is consensus about it, and the only thing left would be to choose a good name 20:45:29 <ilv> So if you have thoughts on that please say so :) 20:45:45 <ilv> i am still not convinced of tor-talk-es, as some people suggested 20:45:50 <flexlibris> ilv: I like tor-es 20:45:53 <flexlibris> I don't like tor-talk-es 20:45:58 <flexlibris> because tor-talk is....how to say this nicely 20:46:00 <flexlibris> :) 20:46:05 <ggus> hahah 20:46:19 <flexlibris> it doesn't have a very inspiring signal-to-noise ratio :) 20:46:28 <flexlibris> and I would not want people to get that impression from tor-talk-es 20:46:41 <ilv> yes, i agree 20:46:43 <arma4> right, tor-talk has a bad reputation, so reusing its name will start you off poorly 20:46:57 <arma4> i would like to hear an answer to the scope question 20:47:11 <sysrqb> tor-talk has improved, though 20:47:24 <arma4> like, is this for people discussing moving from one guard to two guards, if they do it in espanol? and also people talking about tor advocacy in argentina, if they do it in spanish? 20:47:45 <ilv> the scope of the list would be general discussion, from users, operators, community, etc 20:48:14 <ilv> arma4: yes 20:48:40 <arma4> "everything in one list, if it's in spanish" 20:49:18 <arma4> that increases the workload on you, for keeping it organized, and for pushing people onto other lists when they are accidentally isolating themselves from other people doing a similar thing 20:49:46 <arma4> like, if a little group of people are discussing prop271 in spanish, and a bigger group are discussing it in english, and they don't know about each other, that goes bad 20:50:02 <ilv> i mean, to start. if we figure we need to create more we split, but i wouldn't want to start already splitted 20:50:27 <ilv> that's why i am (maybe over)thinking about the name 20:50:52 <sysrqb> finding a solution for the language barrier is a much larger, and on-going issue, i think 20:51:09 <Samdney> the problem is also, if something important happened on the es-list and people who don't speak english are not able to follow it ... 20:51:22 <flexlibris> arma4: then again, the way things are now, there might be a group of people talking about it in English, and a bunch of isolated people thinking about it in Spanish but not having anywhere to talk to each other about it 20:51:31 <Samdney> sorry, I meant people who don't speak es 20:51:40 <flexlibris> I think we should encourage as many English/Spanish speakers in Tor to join the list 20:51:45 <flexlibris> so that it wouldn't only fall to ilv to cross-post 20:51:53 <flexlibris> or tell people about important convos happening there 20:52:02 <flexlibris> I will join the list with my bad Spanish :) 20:52:09 <Samdney> me too :) 20:52:49 <arma4> flexlibris: so you like tor-es, not tor-lang-es? what happens when we add a quaranese list, and we realize tor-qa is already something else? 20:52:57 <flexlibris> :) 20:52:58 <flexlibris> good call 20:53:02 <flexlibris> tor-lang-es then 20:53:02 <ilv> or tor-pt 20:53:07 <flexlibris> yes 20:53:45 <ilv> ok, i will follow this discussion in the ticket 20:53:55 <flexlibris> thanks for doing it ilv 20:54:00 <flexlibris> okay I will give my update quickly 20:54:11 <flexlibris> I've mainly been working on the curriculum for Library Freedom Institute 20:54:28 <flexlibris> the website is now updated at libraryfreedomproject.org/lfi with pics and bios of the 14 people we chose for this round 20:54:41 <flexlibris> it's not secret obviously bc it's on the website but I haven't made the big announcement on twitter yet 20:54:59 <flexlibris> and also of course because I'm talking about it here. all I'm saying is I'll be tweeting the announcement tonight :) 20:55:16 <flexlibris> we're about to start interviewing for the community liaison position so that's exciting 20:55:32 <flexlibris> I'm building modular slides for Tor trainings and I asked for feedback on tor-project@ 20:55:43 <flexlibris> lots of people responded to help but the more the merrier, so if you want to see those slidedecks holler at me 20:56:06 <flexlibris> the idea is to have a set of them that can be used separately or in conjunction with each other and can easily be translated 20:56:16 <flexlibris> they will live on community.tpo eventually with a teacher's guide 20:56:38 <flexlibris> I'm also doing a lot of coordination for our sponsor9 outreach/training/usability work 20:56:54 <flexlibris> and working on the Mexico City meeting plans -- gonna send a timeline to that list before the end of the week 20:57:07 <flexlibris> annnnnnd one of these days I will make our 6 month roadmap 20:57:27 <flexlibris> oh AND we'll send the Mexico City save-the-dates out soon just to get the ball rolling on people who we KNOW we want to invite 20:57:53 <flexlibris> but there will be some time after that to invite more people, especially local people, so ping me if you have suggestions about who should be there 20:57:57 <flexlibris> okay, I think that is all I have 20:58:07 * flexlibris exhales 20:58:22 <t0mmy> hooray for choosing folks this round! 20:58:27 <t0mmy> can't wait to see it all come together 20:58:32 <arma4> we're all busy looking at the lfi page ;) 20:58:34 <flexlibris> t0mmy: i'm excited! 20:58:39 <flexlibris> :) 20:58:44 <flexlibris> it's a good looking group I think! 20:58:47 <flexlibris> from all over the US 20:59:35 <Samdney> (btw, ahf made some nice tor latex-slide-templates, maybe somebody can use id ;) 20:59:47 <arma4> flexlibris: you remember al gore's "an inconvenient truth"? he made a sequel, "an inconvenient sequel", and in it you get to see some of his process for creating training programs to replicate and scale his advocacy 20:59:58 <arma4> flexlibris: might be worth finding a person who did that training and ask them for hints 21:00:05 <flexlibris> arma4: oh that sounds neat 21:00:07 <flexlibris> I will look that up 21:00:25 <arma4> early in the movie you see him doing his talk to like 10 people in a little room, 21:00:34 <arma4> and later in the movie you see him doing a training session to like 100 people in a real auditorium 21:00:55 <arma4> and all of these people are folks who signed up to be imitiation al gores doing climate change talks of their own 21:01:01 <flexlibris> cool! 21:01:15 <flexlibris> arma4: the assignments every week require them to go out and teach others what they've learned 21:01:25 <flexlibris> and part of what we're teaching them includes public speaking/workshop giving, plus media training 21:02:13 <arma4> https://www.climaterealityproject.org/training 21:02:22 <Samdney> i think speaking is the really hard part for much people 21:02:29 <flexlibris> yes 21:02:38 <flexlibris> thanks arma4 21:02:44 <flexlibris> anyway that is all from me 21:02:53 <flexlibris> anyone have anything else to discuss? 21:02:59 <flexlibris> (we are past the hour) 21:04:06 <flexlibris> .....looks like no 21:04:11 <flexlibris> I'm gonna kill the bot 21:04:13 <flexlibris> #endmeeting