14:33:28 <karsten> #startmeeting metrics team 14:33:28 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Apr 5 14:33:28 2018 UTC. The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:33:28 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:33:45 <karsten> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/5h1Goax5eNusxjXJ_Ty5Wl7hFR1uqCReUiN8xdlBG8T <- agenda pad 14:35:28 <irl> no more topics to add from me 14:35:30 <iwakeh> hi there! 14:35:33 <irl> hi! 14:35:34 <karsten> hi iwakeh! 14:35:35 <iwakeh> me neither. 14:35:40 <karsten> okay, great! 14:35:45 <karsten> let's start then. 14:35:51 <karsten> * March report (karsten) 14:35:57 <karsten> I put the draft on the pad. 14:36:05 <karsten> want to take a look and see what's missing/unclear? 14:36:17 <iwakeh> we should add tomorrow's release 14:36:26 <karsten> not in march anymore. 14:36:34 <karsten> it will go into the next report. 14:36:42 <iwakeh> true. 14:36:48 * iwakeh ahead of time :-) 14:36:56 <iwakeh> err behind. 14:38:08 <irl> i added the ticket for the atom feed, and changed the other ticket to use bugs.tpo instead of trac.tpo 14:38:16 <irl> which was a convention used by tor weekly news 14:38:25 <karsten> oh, okay. 14:38:28 <karsten> sure, sounds good. 14:39:02 <irl> i think those are all the changes from me 14:39:48 <karsten> okay. iwakeh, anything you think needs changing? 14:40:51 <karsten> still here? 14:41:08 <iwakeh> all fine. 14:41:10 <karsten> ok! 14:41:27 <karsten> should I wait with sending out this report, or can it go as is? 14:41:33 <karsten> after this meeting, that is. 14:41:38 <irl> i don't think there is need to wait 14:42:09 <iwakeh> That'll be fine. 14:42:14 <karsten> alright. will send it out then. 14:42:19 <karsten> * Roadmap update April 1 (karsten) 14:42:26 <karsten> see pad. 14:42:37 <karsten> I started going through the list of open goals. 14:42:42 <karsten> and added notes. 14:43:19 <karsten> please add yours. focus is what percentage done we can write by april 1. 14:44:33 <karsten> another aspect is which goals we'd drop first if we realize we're running out of time. 14:46:41 <iwakeh> percentages seem ok to me 14:47:03 <karsten> ok. 14:48:20 <irl> ok, i've commented on all the goals that i feel qualified to comment on 14:48:30 <karsten> great! 14:48:43 <karsten> so, I'll update the wiki after the meeting. 14:48:57 <karsten> moving on? 14:49:04 <irl> ok 14:49:10 <iwakeh> ok 14:49:13 <karsten> * Adding irl to groups (karsten) 14:49:21 <karsten> this is about running services. 14:49:35 <irl> so ldap groups? 14:49:37 <karsten> given that we meet next week, should I ask you to be added to groups now? 14:49:52 <karsten> yes. collector, metrics, onionoo, exonerator. 14:49:57 <irl> ok, yes, this sounds sensible 14:50:20 <karsten> for now it wouldn't mean taking over a service, but it would enable you to look. 14:50:24 <karsten> iwakeh: does that make sense? 14:50:41 <iwakeh> yes 14:50:50 <karsten> okay. 14:51:23 <karsten> speaking of, 14:51:24 <karsten> * Aberdeen meeting preparation (karsten) 14:51:32 <karsten> what else should we prepare? 14:51:50 <irl> i've requested a meeting room for the two afternoons 14:52:07 <irl> do you have eduroam credentials or should i also get a wifi account? 14:52:22 <karsten> I don't have such a thing. 14:52:30 <karsten> so, yes, a wifi account would be good. 14:52:32 <irl> ok, i'll get you some temporary eduroam credentials too then 14:52:37 <karsten> great! 14:52:44 <irl> the room will have power sockets and chairs 14:52:49 <irl> is there anything else we need? 14:52:50 <karsten> can you send me the address and time? 14:52:58 <karsten> heh, a converter. 14:53:01 <karsten> (I have one.) 14:53:02 <irl> we have those 14:53:06 <karsten> oh, great. 14:53:16 <karsten> no, I think that's good then. 14:53:28 <irl> ok, i can send you the address/time by email 14:53:34 <karsten> yep. 14:53:37 <irl> but it will be one of the university campuses 14:53:53 <irl> (it may be one day on each) 14:53:59 <karsten> sure. 14:54:01 <irl> oh 14:54:04 <irl> do you need parking? 14:54:07 <karsten> yes. 14:54:13 <irl> ok, i will arrange visitor parking too then 14:54:23 <karsten> perfect! 14:54:46 <irl> updated the pad 14:54:56 <karsten> great! moving on? 14:55:07 <irl> ok 14:55:11 <karsten> * Onionoo 5.2 release (karsten) 14:55:28 <karsten> iwakeh: I updated #25700. 14:55:37 <karsten> which is, I think, the last remaining ticket. 14:55:54 <karsten> once that is in I can prepare the release. 14:55:55 <iwakeh> ok, I'm reviewing 25712 14:55:58 <iwakeh> too 14:56:17 <karsten> okay. 14:56:44 <karsten> so, we're on schedule for releasing tomorrow? 14:56:50 <karsten> what time did we say again? 14:56:56 <karsten> for deploying? 14:56:58 <iwakeh> yep, seems like it :-) 14:57:08 <iwakeh> 12UTC? 14:57:22 <karsten> or maybe 11:50 UTC? 14:57:35 <iwakeh> should work. 14:57:41 <karsten> just because that gives us a bit more time until :15. 14:57:43 <karsten> okay. 14:58:21 <karsten> great! 14:58:28 <karsten> last topic on the list: 14:58:32 <karsten> * An "Is my relay running correctly?" service (irl) 14:58:49 <irl> based on the number of times this question is asked on #tor, i think we should automate this 14:59:05 <karsten> how is that different from relay search? 14:59:13 <irl> usually what happens is arma is looking up in his dirauth whether or not it's seen a descriptor and is reachable 14:59:17 <irl> arma does not scale 14:59:27 <irl> it's different because it's instant feedback 14:59:44 <irl> an initial version maybe just does a tls handshake and is happy with it 15:00:00 <irl> a better version does begindir and fetches a descriptor, tests ipv6 and suggests filling in a contact line if not present 15:00:18 <irl> this is going to be a new ideas ticket, so i just wanted to raise it here first before filing it in case there were more ideas 15:00:40 <karsten> so, we offer a service that makes connections to relays. 15:00:44 <irl> yes 15:00:55 <karsten> does it first check whether the provided IP address is a relay? 15:00:59 <irl> no 15:01:06 <irl> because it's meant to be used to diagnose faults 15:01:12 <karsten> can that be exploited? 15:01:28 <irl> https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest/analyze.html?d=at-tor-1.erg.abdn.ac.uk&s=139.133.232.231&ignoreMismatch=on&latest 15:01:35 <irl> there are already services that will make connections 15:01:44 <irl> this is what gave me the idea 15:01:51 <irl> we would need to put rate limits in though 15:02:21 <irl> if it doesn't to tls we would abort, if it's not a tor relay when we connect we would abort 15:02:25 <karsten> or can we answer this by using more recent tor data? 15:02:57 <iwakeh> wait for another consensus? 15:02:59 <karsten> like, by asking the dirauths if they know about a server. 15:03:14 <irl> we could do that, but it won't diagnose faults 15:03:16 <karsten> that's less instant, but yes. 15:03:31 <irl> e.g. ipv6 advertised in descriptor but it's firewalled 15:03:36 <iwakeh> well, people could be nformed abot that. 15:03:39 <irl> so it never goes into the consensus 15:04:07 <iwakeh> no, but the descriptor might be there. 15:04:27 <irl> we could check that too, but i think that would be a complimentary check as opposed to a replacement 15:04:40 <irl> almost every day i see these questions in #tor 15:04:45 <karsten> okay, this sounds like a fine ideas ticket. 15:04:54 <irl> (i get highlighted on mentions of atlas, so i get to see them all) 15:04:57 <karsten> but I'm concerned about making requests triggered by users. 15:04:59 <iwakeh> I think people can be warded off, for a few hours. 15:05:15 <iwakeh> if that is documented in tor and communicated. 15:05:48 <karsten> maybe we can answer some of these questions by explaining better (on relay search) what we checked by looking at descriptors and what we found out. 15:06:06 <karsten> also, maybe votes tell us more here. 15:06:11 <iwakeh> that's also a good option, 15:06:15 <irl> votes would be very useful 15:06:40 <iwakeh> most likely only the minority of relay operators-to-be ask on irc. 15:07:23 <irl> we should probably improve the "no such relay" page on relay search to point to the community portal documentation once it exists 15:07:27 <irl> on how to debug your relay 15:07:37 <karsten> yes, sounds good. 15:08:15 <irl> ok, i'll turn all this into a ticket then 15:08:21 <karsten> thank you! 15:08:28 <karsten> it's good to turn this feedback into ideas. 15:08:38 <karsten> feedback from relay operators, that is. 15:08:54 <karsten> alright. out of topics! 15:09:10 <irl> oh 15:09:15 <karsten> oh! 15:09:25 <irl> * Metrics/Analysis Tickets (irl) 15:09:36 <karsten> right. 15:09:56 <karsten> see also https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/6473#comment:7 15:10:04 <irl> you may have noticed i did some triage on the tickets 15:10:09 <irl> made sure metrics-team was cc and such 15:10:26 <karsten> noticed that about cc, not sure about analysis tickets. 15:10:32 <irl> these two tickets were owned by arma 15:10:37 <karsten> I usually only see tickets that have metrics-team in cc. 15:11:04 <irl> i think we have two kinds of tickets in metrics/analysis 15:11:16 <irl> there are vague research ideas and then tasks that metrics can help with 15:11:37 <irl> i suggested to arma that we might split this component and make a new research component that might contain open questions 15:11:45 <karsten> sounds like a great plan. 15:11:50 <irl> or just close these tickets and maybe move the better open questions to the research portal 15:11:55 <irl> as trac isn't really the best place for them 15:12:03 <karsten> also an option, if we do that second step. 15:12:06 <irl> these are more likely to be answered by external researchers 15:12:19 <karsten> does the research portal exist? 15:12:28 <karsten> or what's the timeline there? 15:12:29 <irl> http://research.torproject.org/ 15:12:32 <karsten> ahh. 15:12:41 <irl> so it exists as that 15:12:47 <irl> and there is an ideas page 15:12:49 <karsten> weren't there plans to make an actual research portal? 15:12:58 <karsten> that website is not updated very often. 15:13:03 <iwakeh> true. 15:13:07 <karsten> (read as: never) 15:13:14 <iwakeh> even more true 15:13:42 <irl> it's a static site, once the other portals are up i guess it's really easy to migrate it to lektor 15:14:00 <karsten> but, we could start with plan A (split components) and do plan B (move to research portal) as soon as that exists. 15:14:24 <irl> ok, where do you think is the best place to discuss this? 15:14:33 <irl> or do i just do it? 15:14:41 <karsten> where would that new component live? 15:14:51 <karsten> Core Tor? 15:14:51 <irl> "Research/Open Questions" probably 15:15:05 <irl> they're not core tor 15:15:31 <karsten> well, nobody will feel responsible for a new top-level component Research. 15:15:39 <karsten> unless somebody says they will. 15:16:32 <karsten> I'm not sure where to put it. 15:16:34 <irl> there is the same problem moving it to core tor though 15:16:46 <karsten> yes, we'd have to talk to the network team first in that case. 15:16:52 <karsten> maybe we should do that in any case. 15:16:55 <irl> i will check on the timeline for the research portal and see what exists there already 15:16:57 <irl> maybe there are plans 15:17:04 <karsten> also a good plan. 15:17:09 <iwakeh> and a sub-component of Metrics/Analytics ? 15:17:18 <iwakeh> fr sorting 15:17:20 <karsten> sub-sub? 15:17:31 <iwakeh> might be a trac limit. 15:17:31 <karsten> for sorting, just pick Metrics/Research ? 15:17:36 <irl> they're not really analysis at all 15:17:46 <iwakeh> hmm, this yields something different. 15:17:49 <irl> they're "it would be good if arma would write a paper on X" tickets 15:18:42 <karsten> so, do you need such a Metrics/Something component for the sorting? 15:18:46 <karsten> I can create one. 15:18:54 <karsten> (maybe you can, too.) 15:18:57 <irl> let's leave them where they are for now 15:19:03 <karsten> okay. 15:19:08 <irl> no point in moving them twice 15:19:16 <iwakeh> maybe tag? 15:19:37 <iwakeh> now, that you read through them already? 15:19:42 <irl> research-ideas would be a good tag 15:19:46 <irl> i can do this 15:19:59 <iwakeh> that'll safe time when moving is possible. 15:20:05 <irl> yep, good idea 15:20:05 <karsten> great! 15:20:21 <karsten> out of topics? 15:20:23 <karsten> :) 15:20:27 <irl> for real this time (: 15:20:34 <iwakeh> oh 15:20:36 <iwakeh> kay 15:20:40 <iwakeh> :) 15:20:41 <irl> heh 15:20:44 <karsten> by the way, let's skip next week's meeting. 15:20:48 <karsten> heh 15:20:53 <irl> ok cool 15:21:03 <iwakeh> ok 15:21:26 <karsten> that's all then! 15:21:37 <karsten> thanks, and bye, bye! :) 15:21:41 <iwakeh> bye, bye! 15:21:41 <irl> bye! 15:21:47 <karsten> #endmeeting