17:59:28 <nickm> #startmeeting weekly network team meeting, 5 mar
17:59:28 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Mar  5 17:59:28 2018 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:59:42 <ahf> hello!
17:59:43 <nickm> welcome!  I hope everybody's doing well.
17:59:50 <nickm> our pad is at https://pad.riseup.net/p/Ax0sWNWjEFbt
18:00:05 <nickm> who do we have here this week?
18:00:27 <isabela> buenas
18:00:33 <isabela> o/
18:00:46 <catalyst> hi
18:00:49 <nickm> hihi
18:01:52 <kushal> Hello everyone.
18:02:10 <nickm> welcome, kushal !
18:02:39 <nickm> so, we have a whole bunch of stuff on the pad this week ( https://pad.riseup.net/p/Ax0sWNWjEFbt )
18:02:57 <nickm> I see updates from isabela, catalyst, ahf , pastly, and me
18:04:02 <isis> o/
18:04:15 <nickm> \o
18:04:43 <nickm> so I think our biggest category of stuff for this meeting is getting ready for rome, and the roadmapping we have to do
18:04:56 <nickm> including making sure that our near-term stuff (0.3.3) really gets done
18:05:13 <nickm> we have 23 033-must tickets; if they're all really "must"....
18:05:28 <nickm> also, 034 freezes in May. :)
18:05:46 <nickm> so let's everybody remember to pick up code review from review-group-34
18:06:46 <nickm> catalyst: I see your DST discussion on the discussion list. how would you feel about having meeting time planning be one of the things we do in rome when we're (almost) all in one place?
18:07:31 <ahf> is this the problem where we might end up colliding with the browser team meetings here on irc?
18:07:47 <catalyst> ahf: that would be one factor to consider
18:07:50 <nickm> if we do DST and they don't, that could happen
18:08:05 <catalyst> nickm: sure, we could do it in Rome or have it over email if people prefer
18:08:55 <catalyst> i would mostly like us to not forget to think about it
18:09:01 <nickm> maybe this time we can bend timespace and find a time that works for teor, europe, and the NA west coast :)
18:09:04 <nickm> catalyst: +1
18:09:18 <ahf> that would be very nice
18:10:18 <nickm> ahf: thanks for tagging the wakeup/timeout tickets I opened last week, btw
18:10:24 <ahf> isabela: i'm gonna look at the incoming s8 onion service logs before i travel to rome and send it to you
18:10:36 <ahf> nickm: huh? i didn't - i completely forgot that
18:10:37 <nickm> have a thought about whether there are any you super-want to do, and we can divide them up.
18:10:44 <ahf> we can divide them up!
18:10:51 <nickm> ahf: I thought you put them under s8-something
18:11:12 <ahf> no, i forgot about that friday. let me do that after the meeting
18:11:19 <nickm> ok thanks
18:12:00 <nickm> also, everybody please look at the "THINGS TO DO" section there.  isabela and I have tried to get together the stuff that would be most helpful on.  isabela's items are probably more time-sensitive than mine, since they're planning-related
18:12:04 <ahf> nickm: did you see my stat reporter thing? it expanded a bit for being an idea i had to get some info out from my pocket phone because i noticed that i didn't use tor on the phone in a normal way when i had a debugger attached
18:12:20 <isabela> ahf: thanks
18:12:25 <nickm> hm. that could be pretty helpful.  I hadn't seen it though
18:12:26 <ahf> and i think it might be useful for relay operators too who like to do those shiny dashboards that have become hip in the cloud computing world
18:12:49 <ahf> it's pretty simple: you can set an option in tor with a set of IP/port + a protocol and tor will connect to the service and report stats periodically
18:12:53 <ahf> like graphite and statsd
18:13:16 <ahf> which are time series DB's
18:13:31 <nickm> could be worthwhile if we can keep it focused for now to something that helps us do our near-term objectives
18:13:50 <nickm> could be a bad idea if it sprawls and prevents us from actually improving the things we're measuring :)
18:14:20 <nickm> I guess "just dump it to a text file" is not going to work in phoneland?
18:14:24 <ahf> yes, the patch is not super big, i'm gonna get it into a state where it can be reviewed by other people before rome and then i think want to talk a bit with people on the team in rome about it if it could be useful for them for internal stats of the tor process
18:15:03 <ahf> just dump it in a text file is fine and what i do now (i use our logs and parse those)
18:15:18 <nickm> btw, under the category of "let's plan for planning" -- folks should know that isabela and I are conspiring for this round of releases to actually go smoothly and as-planned.
18:15:27 <kushal> ahf, Means instead of deploying our own tools, we can just depend on this to report the stats?
18:15:43 <nickm> that's going to mean kicking way more stuff out in advance, though, and making more people upset about the stuff we say "no" to in advance
18:15:46 <ahf> kushal: you can, yeah
18:16:02 <kushal> ahf, Okay.
18:16:24 <ahf> nickm: ack!
18:16:26 <isabela> (fyi i left a note for a sync on the 9th at a lobby in one of the hotels to finish the roadmap prep work will email with mroe info once jon tells me a good spot to do that0
18:16:34 <isabela> ^^ optional too
18:16:40 <nickm> ahf: make sure you talk to dgoulet about how ( & whether) this fits into the trace ideas
18:17:02 <ahf> nickm: i will keep that in mind with htis -i wont spend much time on it other than getting it into a shape where others can look at it, then we can decide if we want it not
18:17:21 <ahf> nickm: i discussed it with dgoulet the other day - he is interested in it for tracing and for relay measurements too
18:17:37 <ahf> the malloc stats i added was a demo for that
18:17:51 <nickm> catalyst: I think I dropped you a note a day or two ago about the s8-errors work on one of isabela's panning pads.  I hope you saw that?
18:17:51 <ahf> isabela: cool. i think that sounds like a useful thing to attend
18:18:26 <isis> i took a look at ahf's reporter thing, it was surprisingly minimal and looked pretty awesome it terms of how fast we'd be able to hook in whatever random measurements we wanted
18:18:27 <nickm> isis: since you won't be able to be at rome, also, we should make sure that the stuff you're most concerned about makes it on the roadmap, and you wind up on it
18:18:53 <nickm> isabela: any thoughts on how we can make sure isis winds up on the roadmap in a useful way?
18:19:02 <ahf> isis: :-)
18:19:45 <catalyst> nickm: if you mean the brief message you sent on 3/3, i got it and haven't had a chance to write anything on the pad yet (i have read through parts of it though)
18:19:50 <nickm> ok
18:19:51 <isis> i could write up a draft roadmap of the stuff i'm planning to do between now and may? (or longer… not sure if we were planning to roadmap again in may)
18:19:56 <isabela> winds up == ? :) like helping out ?
18:20:11 <nickm> like, we should make sure that isis's work winds up on the roadmap, with isis doing it
18:20:26 <isabela> isis: please add to the pad the stuff you think we should be doing for the sponsors
18:20:39 <isis> also i'm happy to be on video/call/whatever while the roadmapping is happening, also for anything else
18:20:49 <isabela> what is it? is that proposal you added that i moved to v?
18:20:55 <nickm> isis: I wonder if there's a way for us to do that collaboratively, to make sure that we're collaborating
18:21:06 <isabela> we could have a jitsi for sure
18:21:12 <isabela> it was helpful for me at leasst
18:21:15 <isabela> when i couldnt come
18:21:27 <nickm> as i think about it, roadmapping is less "planning" and more "planning with a feedback loop"
18:22:10 <nickm> where we ask each other annoying questions like "you can't possibly do that in a month" and "that's cool but we actually need to deliver on our obligations"
18:22:25 <isabela> the goal now for me at least is to have that pad organized and hopefully with tickets for the things folks are listing
18:22:41 <isabela> i added a lot of info there from reports
18:22:49 <isabela> but is more for reference
18:23:01 <isis> isabela: i will update the pad today, thanks!
18:23:07 <isabela> great
18:23:08 <isabela> thanks
18:23:19 <nickm> catalyst: it would be great to have your additions there.  I'm pretty much at sea myself when it comes to the state of the s8-errors work, so we should try to figure out where we are, where we are going, and how we get there
18:23:43 <isabela> once i have the tickets there my second move is to have owners for them
18:23:47 <nickm> And if we don't know, or don't know scompletely, we should be aware of _that_ so we can fix it
18:23:50 <nickm> *completely
18:23:57 <isabela> then we will do another exercise of what goes on what release
18:24:07 <ahf> cool
18:24:12 <isabela> cuz this will determ where in the roadmap it will be
18:24:24 <nickm> we have 3 releases freezing or coming out between now and september
18:24:31 <nickm> 033 releases in April
18:24:35 <nickm> 034 freezes in may
18:24:39 <nickm> 035 freezes in september
18:25:33 <isabela> yes, so once we have a list of what we want to do for a sponsor, tickets for it, and owners, we will place it as part of a release so we know when it will be done
18:25:34 <ahf> mm
18:27:49 <nickm> anything more for today?  An additional thought.  There are something like 8 of us working full time on the network team.  There are also 39 tickets in review-group-34 and 23 tickets in 033-must
18:28:18 <nickm> that means that if everybody reviews 5 items in and fixes 3, we'll be done with those handily
18:28:29 <ahf> three each of 033-must?
18:28:32 <ahf> sounds good
18:28:39 <nickm> assuming everybody does it
18:28:50 <nickm> and assuming everybody is equally able to work on all 23
18:29:13 <nickm> if we wind up at 10 April and we still have must-fix items, it will be hard :)
18:29:38 <nickm> isabela: do you have anything else for this week, or shall we say "see you in rome!" to everyone and "see you online!" to isis and call the meeting done for today?
18:29:54 <ahf> when is our next meeting btw? i need to ditch some classes during rome and would like to catch up on those when i get home and i might want to use the monday after rome for that unless we have a meeting there
18:30:07 <ahf> monday the 19th that is
18:30:14 <isabela> i think i should email the team and explain the 2 questions for the future vision roadmap hehe
18:30:19 <isabela> whatever we want to call it :)
18:30:21 <nickm> isabela:  good idea
18:30:30 <isabela> will do that!
18:30:35 <nickm> ahf: maybe we can decide in rome?  there are fewer of us here than there will be there
18:30:37 <isabela> and if folks has questions i am happy to clarify
18:30:42 <ahf> yes, agreed
18:30:44 <nickm> my expectation is that on the 19th we might be better off skipping
18:31:04 * isabela will be flying
18:31:04 <ahf> ack
18:31:05 <isabela> :)
18:31:20 <catalyst> nickm: skipping 19th sounds reasonable. maybe we should announce that?
18:31:36 <nickm> catalyst: let's discuss it on the 10th/11th, and we'll have time to announce it then
18:31:50 <catalyst> ok
18:32:09 <nickm> ok. peace, all!  Let's try to come out of this next meeting more organized, with plans we can actually follow, and increased hackish camaraderie !
18:32:22 <nickm> #endmeeting