17:59:10 <nickm> #startmeeting weekly network team meeting, 20 Feb 17:59:10 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Feb 20 17:59:10 2018 UTC. The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:10 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:15 <asn> hello :) 17:59:22 <nickm> The famous pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/3Puiko6qUCLr 17:59:24 <dgoulet> hi 17:59:29 <catalyst> hi! i might vanish as my VM gets rebooted soon 17:59:35 <nickm> ok 17:59:43 <ahf> hey! 18:00:42 <nickm> I don't see too much in boldface this week. 18:01:15 * asn reads updates 18:02:09 <ahf> i moved my two to discussion - i don't know if that was right or wrong 18:02:51 <isis> o/ 18:03:09 <nickm> fine with me 18:03:11 <nickm> isabela: ping? 18:03:30 * isabela here 18:03:35 <isabela> sorry i am on the phone 18:03:38 <isabela> give me 3min! 18:04:05 * asn discussing with mike on pad :P 18:04:18 <ahf> internet relay pad 18:04:50 <nickm> reminds me of "talk" 18:04:57 <nickm> I wish more chat protocols let you see people type; that was fun 18:05:30 <ahf> like while they were writing the line? lol 18:05:45 <nickm> yeah, it was fun 18:05:48 <isis> we could switch to slack 18:05:53 <ahf> "damn you^W^Wi respectfully disagree :-)" 18:05:59 <isis> haha 18:06:21 <sysrqb> that was the whole innovation with Google^WApache Wave, right? 18:07:31 <ahf> :-S 18:07:49 * isabela is here 18:08:04 <nickm> hihi 18:08:26 <ahf> isabela: nice with network test emails, i'll keep a look out for incoming updates this week 18:08:37 <isabela> tx! 18:08:41 <nickm> mikeperry, asn: Do you think you're going to arrive at a decision wrt guardfraction, or should we broaden the list of people who are disussing it? 18:09:17 <asn> probs not during this meeting 18:09:23 <asn> but i can see mike's point 18:10:05 <nickm> ok. I can see yours too though: unless we have a plan to actually finish guardfractoin, its odds are poor 18:10:35 <nickm> but I'm okay with anything the two of you decide 18:10:46 <asn> ack 18:10:59 <ahf> asn: for the NS code you will need the same kind of mechanism for the NS "plug-ins" as we use for PT's right? so you'd be good to chat with also about the windows thing i'm playing a bit around with to be able to get better communication between the plug-ins and tor 18:11:12 <mikeperry> it seems like the painful piece of guardfraction is the external script.. that can always be replaced or rewritten while we use the same code in tor-core. I also think that asn's fixes in #16255 are likely to work, but we just have no mechanism to test them. 18:11:14 <asn> ahf: yes we could talk about that 18:11:26 <mikeperry> we are likely to build such a mechanism eventually, and then fixing #16255 will become much easier 18:11:42 <asn> ahf: perhaps thursday or friday 18:12:03 <ahf> works for me, i only look at this during the weekend, so thursday/friday is perfect 18:12:24 <asn> mikeperry: the external script does not really need rewriting IIUC. it's just that people have been running it for ages without the feature being used. 18:13:10 <asn> and next time we tell them to run a script, it better be good, or they will laugh at our face 18:13:42 <nickm> are we ready to kick off discussions? 18:13:47 <nickm> if so, I think isabela would like to start 18:13:51 <asn> let's 18:13:51 <nickm> isabela: (am I right?) 18:13:59 <isabela> sure i can do that 18:14:02 <isabela> if we are ready 18:14:15 <nickm> let's go for it! 18:14:18 <isabela> i want to talk about this: https://pad.riseup.net/p/38VbTZUIzG4X 18:14:23 <isabela> is an exercise 18:14:30 <isabela> i emailed it to the list and also added the link to the pad 18:14:40 <isabela> so others can see it too :) (who are not here) 18:15:00 <isabela> thanks everyone for helping with the work areas list 18:15:28 <isabela> i moved them to a spreadsheet and I am asking for people to vote on top 5 areas tor network should have as a priority 18:15:36 <isabela> there are detailed instructions on the pad 18:16:03 <isabela> on how i organized the 'final' list of areas, how to vote, till when to vote :) and how this will be used 18:16:18 <isabela> let me know if you have questions 18:16:21 <nickm> so, IIUC the idea is to treat this like one of those exercises where you get sticky labels, and vote for your favorite post-it notes 18:16:35 <nickm> isabela: is this for long-term focus or near-term focus? 18:16:42 <isabela> ok 18:16:44 <nickm> that is, should we vote for "what is most important for the team to do this year" 18:16:50 <isabela> this is not about 'what is your favorite thing' 18:16:51 <nickm> or "what is most important for the team to do in general" 18:17:00 <isabela> this is about 'what are the priorities for tor network' 18:17:07 <isabela> that you feel right now 18:17:15 <ahf> and what will the result of these votes be? it will be what the grant writers will try to get funding for? 18:17:22 <isabela> how we will fix those (if in the short or long term (2019-2021) is a another step 18:17:51 <isabela> ahf: no 18:17:59 <isabela> ahf: will be used as a data point for our plannings 18:18:10 <ahf> ok! so it's a here and now picture 18:18:13 <ahf> cool 18:18:25 <isabela> that is why i am saying to just think of what you consider priority, because is broken, because has no one developing it, because we need to grow 18:18:30 <isabela> whatever is the reason 18:18:34 <ahf> yep 18:18:41 <Samdney> isis: when will be this proposal meetings? 18:18:42 <isabela> if we will fix it on the 6 months planning or the 2019-2021 is another question 18:19:01 <isabela> we will use this as data points for both plannings 18:19:40 <isis> Samdney: i forget! sorry, it's somewhere in the scrollback of #tor-dev from last friday 18:20:21 <isis> it might be later this afternoon, i think 18:20:39 <nickm> ok, I tried to write some stuff, but I'll change my mind over the next few days :) 18:20:54 <isabela> hehehe 18:21:06 <asn> i'd like to think more so im not gonna put stuff now 18:21:08 <isabela> is cool, till friday folks can play with it 18:21:20 <ahf> cool 18:21:24 <isabela> friday it will freeze tho so we can actually use it 18:21:45 <isabela> all this is preparation for our plannings 18:22:13 <nickm> this is one of several "everybody please do X" items for this week 18:22:19 <nickm> other "everybody please do X" items are: 18:22:26 <nickm> help marking essential 033 things with 033-must 18:22:43 <nickm> please pick up a ticket to review : review-group-33 is now a thing. 18:23:04 <nickm> what else? 18:23:24 <asn> maybe: please fill out the updated subsystem maintainer spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ufrun1khEo5Cwd6OwngERn829wU3W3eskdrriaYfUBQ/edit#gid=1974867547 18:23:29 <isabela> yes! 18:23:33 <isabela> please do that too 18:23:47 <isabela> all this will help us with organizing 18:23:50 <isis> i see two tickets left with needs_review in review-group-32: #24456 #24854 18:24:00 <asn> #24456 is in rg33 too 18:24:10 <nickm> mikeperry has been looking at #24456 18:24:25 <ahf> maybe: also remember to take team rotation tasks :-) 18:24:26 <nickm> teor is on #24854; I'll ask what's up with that tonight 18:24:37 <isis> ok, i'll remove the old tag gr32 then? 18:24:50 <isis> ok, i'll just leave both alone for now 18:25:09 <asn> rg33 has less elements than people in our team 18:25:17 <asn> i took #17945 anyhow 18:26:22 <nickm> oh also, please include my patches for TROVE-2018-001, as sent to the network-team-security list. I don't know if anyone but me has reviewed those. 18:26:33 <nickm> somebody should give feedback; I'm hoping to put out a release on Monday or Wednesday next week 18:26:58 <asn> should i put #25074 in rg33? 18:27:05 <nickm> yes please 18:27:07 <asn> ack 18:28:09 <nickm> shall we move on to other discussion stuff? 18:28:28 <asn> sure 18:28:33 * ahf nods 18:29:15 <nickm> ok. next topic I see is from me. I think I already mentioned all of my stuff though. 18:29:38 <nickm> asn wants to bring everybody's attention to the subsystem maintainer spreadsheet: Please add data! 18:29:41 <nickm> asn: anything else? 18:29:46 <asn> nope that's good 18:29:49 <asn> thanks nickm <3 18:30:47 <nickm> isis: we need a strategy for rust dependencies. Can you write up a quick document (wiki page, text file, whatever) on how we should do that? Then let's follow the policy you invent and see how it goes and amend it as needed 18:30:52 <nickm> (unless there are other volunteers) 18:31:57 <nickm> or I could try to make up a procedure from my rust-ignorant perspective :) 18:32:17 <nickm> isis: also, could you mention the meeting times for the proposal meetings on the pad too? 18:32:28 <nickm> (or anybody who knows) 18:32:43 <nickm> prop#245 and prop#282 (and whomever else would like to join) 18:33:02 <nickm> I don't know when those are :) 18:33:21 <nickm> have I missed any topics from this week? 18:33:43 <ahf> i added one about whether we can remove the nmake files in tor.git 18:34:20 <nickm> ahf: ah! 18:34:26 <nickm> I don't know. I don't think they'd be missed. 18:34:43 <nickm> wait 18:34:48 <ahf> ok, i'll create a bug and then we can decide to remove them with the normal review process 18:34:53 <nickm> from time to time, I see people reporting bugs when Tor is built with MSVC 18:34:53 <ahf> ok! 18:35:03 <ahf> many of them looks like they haven't been touched in a long while 18:35:11 <ahf> the one in src/or was in 2016 i think 18:35:14 <nickm> I don't know if they're fixing up the nmake files, or if they're making their own project files 18:35:42 <ahf> maybe create a ticket and let it stay for a bit and see if anybody objects? 18:35:44 <catalyst> nickm: i think the last i saw scheduling those proposal discussions was a doodle poll from isis (which only isis and teor have responded on) 18:37:16 <isis> nickm: for rust stuff, sure, i can make something up? the digest crate only contains traits, which is why i think it's okay to use, since it's just about being compatible with other things 18:37:58 <isis> catalyst: yeah, i said something to teor on friday in #tor-dev suggesting a time, but now i have to go look for what i said 18:38:20 <nickm> isis: yeah, please make something up! I figur we should have some process other than asking at the meeting... 18:38:58 <nickm> trait-only crates seem like an easy call 18:39:31 <isis> ok! will add to the docs 18:39:56 <isis> the prop#245 and prop#282 meeting is at 23:00 UTC today 18:40:28 <nickm> is that right before the patch party? or after? or at? 18:40:33 <nickm> sorry, can't arithmetic 18:41:38 <catalyst> that looks like patch party time to me 18:41:42 <nickm> ok 18:41:43 <ahf> is our dates for the may hackfest final? so now should be OK to write to travel@ with a price estimate of flight tickets? 18:42:35 <nickm> I think so, but I'm not organizing it :/ 18:43:01 <isabela> i am helping teor and dgoulet 18:43:12 <dgoulet> waiting on Jon to book the hotel 18:43:24 <isabela> i need to double check on it because i think our costs for seattle might have been wrong 18:43:30 <isabela> and might end up higher not sure 18:43:57 <isabela> armadev mentioned something to me but i really dont remembre now if was him looking or jon looking 18:44:04 <isabela> or both looking 18:44:13 <ahf> ok, i will wait with all of that then 18:44:27 <isabela> i will ping the thread w jon 18:45:23 <nickm> catalyst, isis: okay. I will try to be there at 2300 UTC. I might have some distractions tonight but I think i can do it :) 18:45:24 <isabela> the dates are right 18:45:37 <isabela> but the location might change to portland depending on hotel prices 18:45:41 <isabela> ahf: i think 18:45:56 <isabela> so airplane tickets might be around the same? 18:46:06 <isabela> might be ok to email travel if you want to 18:46:52 <ahf> yeah, i could send an estimate and get an ok now, should be the same for that period 18:47:04 <isabela> yep 18:47:50 <nickm> ok. anything else for this week? 18:48:32 <nickm> if not, then I'll be seeing you all online! 18:49:08 <asn> thanks for the meeting! :) 18:49:21 <isabela> \o/ 18:49:24 <nickm> #endmeeting