14:29:22 <karsten> #startmeeting metrics team 14:29:22 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Feb 15 14:29:22 2018 UTC. The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:29:22 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:29:56 <karsten> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/Oh4g0hNenh65QZNWRsIe5zxpB3e0axASeSgo5hKOp2A <- agenda pad 14:30:40 <karsten> are you still adding topics to the agenda pad? 14:30:45 <irl> i'm done 14:30:48 <iwakeh> nope 14:30:53 <karsten> okay. 14:30:58 <karsten> * quick announcement from irl 14:31:19 <irl> antonela produced some new designs for the "badges" that accompany tweets/toots from metrics-bot 14:31:32 <irl> these have now been implemented and deployed and they look considerably better than my old designs 14:31:42 <irl> i've put some example links on the pad 14:32:01 <karsten> cool! 14:32:19 <karsten> looks indeed pretty good. 14:32:26 <karsten> I made a note to include this in the monthly report, too. 14:32:26 <antonela> (~‾▿‾)~ㅤ 14:32:30 <karsten> hi antonela! 14:32:36 <iwakeh> neat 14:32:38 <antonela> hey! just lurking around :) 14:32:55 <karsten> while you're here.... :) 14:32:59 <karsten> * Bootstrap 4.0 (karsten) 14:33:03 <irl> oh dear 14:33:06 <karsten> hehe 14:33:15 <karsten> so, irl and I briefly talked about an issue in bootstrap 3.3.7. 14:33:32 <karsten> and irl's suggestion was to edit the minimized js and replace a function with the 3.3.5 version. 14:33:44 <karsten> my question was: should we look into upgrading to 4.x? 14:33:53 <karsten> which is something that irl didn't want to do alone. 14:34:04 <karsten> is this something where you could help, antonela? 14:34:19 <irl> i think this would mean that we use the styleguide bootstrap fork to redo metrics.tpo's design 14:34:31 <karsten> the styleguide uses 4.x? 14:34:37 <irl> i believe so 14:34:38 <antonela> yes, the styleguide uses 4.x 14:34:48 <antonela> https://styleguide.torproject.org/getting-started/ 14:35:00 <karsten> so, I guess at some point we'll have to upgrade to 4.x anyway. 14:35:12 <karsten> questions are: who does it? when do we do it. 14:35:13 <karsten> ? 14:35:25 <iwakeh> web designer? 14:35:29 <karsten> we could also ask our web designer who did the design last time. 14:35:44 <irl> i'm happy to do it with the help of hiro/antonela, but in the second half of the year, not just now 14:35:57 <antonela> after the new website, i can help on metrics i think 14:35:59 <antonela> yes :) 14:36:21 <karsten> okay. 14:37:15 <karsten> made some notes on the pad. 14:37:15 <irl> we'll get to see then also how the other portals have done integration 14:37:25 <hiro> the 4 used at the moment is also in alpha I think 14:37:26 <karsten> and until then we just hack 3.3.7? 14:37:46 <irl> if it helps to reassure you, the hacked 3.3.7 is what's been running for relay search since the theme change 14:37:54 <hiro> also you can just import the boostrap.css from the styleguide and you should have everything there already 14:38:16 <karsten> hiro: I have no idea how many things would break. 14:38:44 <karsten> okay, great. sounds like a plan. 14:38:57 <irl> (: 14:38:58 <karsten> moving on? 14:39:22 <karsten> moving on. 14:39:23 <karsten> * webstats memory issues (karsten), please confirm comment:6 in 25161 (iwakeh) 14:40:04 <iwakeh> I can prepare 14:40:08 <karsten> done. 14:40:16 <iwakeh> the shell scripts for the import. 14:40:21 <iwakeh> ok :-) 14:40:27 <karsten> I'll get new hardware in the first half of next week. 14:40:47 <iwakeh> what memory max limit? 14:40:55 <karsten> I thought about 64GB. 14:41:02 <karsten> (I'll still have to buy the ram.) 14:41:07 <iwakeh> ok, just run the import with that. 14:41:13 <iwakeh> ;-) 14:41:13 <karsten> everything? 14:41:15 <karsten> heh 14:41:24 <karsten> I can certainly try. 14:41:27 <iwakeh> well, I can try and check ... 14:41:39 <karsten> feel free to wait for that. 14:41:52 <iwakeh> the slicing idea only applies 14:41:54 <karsten> that == me trying it out next week. 14:42:03 <iwakeh> to very limited 8 to 16G. 14:42:22 <karsten> ok. 14:42:32 <karsten> sounds fine, I'll run it and tell you whether that works. 14:42:39 <iwakeh> I do a small test beforehand. 14:42:51 <karsten> ok. 14:42:54 <iwakeh> to make sure I didn't underestimate the needed RAM. 14:43:18 <karsten> sounds good. moving on? 14:43:21 <iwakeh> fine 14:43:26 <karsten> * more feedback on Sponsor 13 deliverable 2 (karsten) 14:43:39 <karsten> half of the month is over, and I haven't done anything for that sponsor yet. 14:43:49 <karsten> I'd like to continue working on the document next week. 14:44:04 <karsten> iwakeh: can you take another look at the comments and move the discussions there forward? 14:44:14 <iwakeh> sure! 14:44:19 <karsten> thank you! 14:44:30 <karsten> and do you have a google account? 14:44:31 <iwakeh> (I didn't know it was waiting for my comment) 14:44:52 <iwakeh> errg 14:44:52 <karsten> no worries. I had it on my list to tell you last week, and then you weren't here and I forgot. 14:45:09 <karsten> or, can I let you edit some other way? 14:45:15 <karsten> without letting the world edit, too? 14:45:24 <iwakeh> hhmm 14:45:29 <karsten> I can find out. 14:45:38 * iwakeh thinks about this question and mails later. 14:46:06 <karsten> okay! 14:46:15 <karsten> * feedback for #24229: Provide BGP Data Collection on Tor Metrics (iwakeh); 14:46:16 <iwakeh> I'd rather discuss on ticket than in 14:46:27 <iwakeh> these tiny comment boxes of the Gdoc. 14:46:32 <karsten> ah, hmm. 14:46:42 <iwakeh> we find a solution there. 14:46:48 <karsten> yes. 14:47:01 <iwakeh> Regarding BGP data 14:47:30 <iwakeh> I suggested a structure which can be commented on on the ticket 14:47:36 <iwakeh> the question here: 14:47:54 <iwakeh> Do we plan to update the data? 14:48:04 <iwakeh> in the near future? 14:48:15 <iwakeh> at all? 14:48:16 <karsten> hmm, fine question. 14:48:33 <iwakeh> if we do, I'd think about the steps necessary. 14:48:50 <karsten> I think we're mainly providing a place for researchers to serve their interesting tor-related data. 14:49:10 <karsten> so, if they want to update that data, we should make that possible. 14:49:20 <karsten> which shouldn't require much work, though. 14:49:21 <iwakeh> ok, so we just leave it at the scope of archiving third party data. 14:49:41 <iwakeh> yes, the steps are outlined on ticket. 14:49:55 <karsten> I'd say, let's start simple. 14:50:09 <iwakeh> it is very simple. 14:50:14 <karsten> sounds good. 14:50:25 <karsten> I'll take a look at the ticket, too. 14:51:05 <karsten> shall we discuss this more on the ticket then? 14:51:19 <iwakeh> yes, just wanted to raise attention. 14:51:25 <karsten> ok! 14:51:29 <karsten> * Make a plan for assigning points to tickets, including what points<>time factor we're going to use, if at all. 14:51:49 * iwakeh added the 'if...' 14:51:49 * karsten noticed that irl started using points. 14:51:55 <irl> i had a go at this 14:52:04 <irl> for the metrics-bot and relay search tickets 14:52:19 <irl> i used the network team points to time conversion system 14:52:51 <irl> i found that just thinking about how long something would take meant i had to think about how i would do it and i tidied up a couple of missing tickets or missing things that had to be done first, so setting parent tickets 14:52:59 <karsten> how about we all experiment with this, if we feel like it, but we don't make it mandatory yet? 14:53:11 <iwakeh> fine. I thought about this after noticing irl's point-adding, but 14:53:28 <iwakeh> it felt quite distracting and I didn't continue. 14:53:40 <iwakeh> I'll give it another try. 14:53:47 <karsten> yes, I'll do the same. 14:53:57 <karsten> regarding the conversion system, 14:53:58 <iwakeh> Maybe, for things that will wait longer before being worked on. 14:54:06 <karsten> can we agree on doing the same as the network team does? 14:54:16 <irl> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/teams/NetworkTeam/ReleaseGuidelines#TeamCapacity 14:54:23 <iwakeh> Where was the conversion formular again? 14:54:31 <iwakeh> ah, thanks! 14:55:15 <karsten> I think it makes sense for compatibility reasons. 14:55:17 <iwakeh> the wheel exists, let's use it. 14:55:25 <irl> indeed 14:55:44 <karsten> alright. 14:55:55 <iwakeh> the priority field 14:56:09 <karsten> ah, yes. 14:56:26 <karsten> let's use it better. 14:56:31 <iwakeh> There are quite some tickets having 'high', but were not touched for weeks/months. 14:56:32 <karsten> so far we use high, medium, and low. 14:56:40 <karsten> true. 14:57:00 <iwakeh> i.e., let's also adjust when topics loose priority. 14:57:07 <iwakeh> or gain. 14:57:08 <karsten> agreed. 14:57:10 <irl> a weekly or bi-weekly review would catch this 14:57:17 <iwakeh> true. 14:57:35 <karsten> true. shall we append that to today's agenda, if we have time? 14:58:00 <irl> it doesn't have to be a team thing, just go through all the tickets and work out which ones are the most important ones 14:58:04 <iwakeh> maybe, limited to only looking at 'high' this time? 14:58:06 <irl> then accept them and work on them 14:58:31 <irl> but yes, also things that need discussion could then be discussed at the meeting 14:58:38 <irl> but you'd know what they are 14:58:45 <iwakeh> we could adjust 14:58:49 <karsten> okay, let's do a quick round at the end, just for high tickets. 14:58:53 <irl> ok 14:58:56 <iwakeh> after the meeting 'offline' this time,and 14:59:10 <iwakeh> plan reviewing the prios next time? 14:59:16 <karsten> sure, or that. 15:00:09 <karsten> okay, 15:00:10 <karsten> * Including Relay Search in metrics-web (#23518) 15:00:26 <karsten> I see there are tickets waiting for review? 15:00:41 <irl> yes, including one that actually includes relay search into metrics-web 15:00:56 <irl> but it will need a couple of changes before actually merging, which i've described in the comment 15:01:04 <karsten> ah, okay. 15:01:18 <karsten> so, I can review things later today, possibly tomorrow. 15:01:23 <irl> like the submodule points to my personal repo, which can change once the relay search changes are merged 15:01:28 <irl> ok cool 15:01:55 <irl> once you've reviewed i can put it all into one branch to merge in one go 15:02:15 <irl> it's currently two branches because the bootstrap js was still being discussed 15:02:46 <karsten> I can merge that one after this meeting, and you can rebase. 15:02:52 <irl> ah cool (: 15:02:55 <irl> that works too 15:03:28 <karsten> what's the part about freeze? 15:03:44 <karsten> is there a specific timing? 15:03:55 <irl> ah yes, so i need to update urls to make it work in metrics-web and this will break the deployment on the static mirrors 15:04:15 <irl> so ideally we don't want to change anything on the static mirrors once we make these changes 15:04:30 <irl> which i think is fine, as we would shortly after put in a redirect once we've confirmed it all working 15:04:37 <karsten> should we plan to do this on monday, not friday then? 15:04:56 <irl> i mean, the static mirrors would continue to work serving relay search 15:05:09 <irl> but if we made changes they would conflict with changes made for integration with metrics-web 15:05:30 <karsten> okay, let's see how far we get before the weekend approaches. 15:05:32 <irl> this is more a warning not to run ./update on staticiforme than anything else 15:05:48 <karsten> you mean run it for atlas? I don't do that. 15:05:54 <irl> yep 15:05:57 <karsten> okay. 15:06:11 <karsten> cool, looking forward to this. :) 15:06:15 <irl> (: 15:06:22 <karsten> moving on? 15:06:24 <irl> ok 15:06:29 <karsten> * Publishing bridge contact information: how to make a decision (karsten) 15:06:46 <iwakeh> where there any comments? 15:06:52 <karsten> yes, some. 15:07:12 <karsten> and I got some more from the research group that worked on identifying bridges last year or so. 15:07:24 <iwakeh> interesting. 15:07:26 <karsten> (not the one that leaked 2k bridge addresses as a result.) 15:07:40 <karsten> it's not a clear case. we might do it or leave it. 15:07:45 <karsten> I'm not sure how to decide. 15:08:01 <karsten> we could discuss this in the team, we could ask tor-internal@, ... 15:08:04 <iwakeh> The 'privacy board'? 15:08:09 <karsten> aha! 15:08:12 <irl> can we do a proposal to clarify some wording in a specification maybe? 15:08:40 <karsten> the change is pretty small. 15:09:06 <karsten> and we do have a specification. 15:09:06 <iwakeh> #20983 15:09:29 <iwakeh> https://metrics.torproject.org/bridge-descriptors.html 15:09:38 <karsten> but yes, I think the privacy board would indeed be a good place to ask. 15:09:39 <iwakeh> would need to be adjusted. 15:10:01 <irl> https://gitweb.torproject.org/torspec.git/tree/bridgedb-spec.txt#n55 15:10:24 <irl> so the bridge descriptors we get are different to the bridgedb-spec ones? 15:10:41 <iwakeh> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/20983#comment:6 15:10:42 <karsten> no, but we sanitize them. 15:11:14 <irl> ok, so we should do a proposal to update the spec for this and make it clear that contact lines can be made public 15:11:19 <irl> and then it's a formal decision process 15:11:31 <karsten> well, 15:11:36 <karsten> we did this 4 years ago. 15:11:43 <karsten> making it clear that contact lines can be made public. 15:11:49 <irl> but it's not in the spec at all 15:11:56 <irl> there's no mention that bridge descriptors even have contact lines 15:11:57 <karsten> let me find it.. 15:12:00 <iwakeh> the comment https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/20983#comment:6 replies to irl's link-question. 15:12:09 <karsten> that's an implementation spec how bridgedb works. 15:12:16 <karsten> it just doesn't do anything with contact lines. 15:12:17 <irl> aaaaaah 15:12:42 <irl> right ok, so we do already say these are public 15:12:42 <karsten> #9854 15:13:05 <karsten> that's where we clarified in the default torrc that contact lines may be published and indexed by search engines. 15:13:11 <karsten> we just didn't do it yet. 15:13:39 <karsten> so, how about I reach out to the privacy board, cc'ing you two, and ask if we can proceed or not? 15:13:49 <iwakeh> yep, sounds good. 15:13:50 <irl> i think that sounds good 15:14:11 <irl> especially for group identification 15:14:18 <irl> which wasn't mentioned in the earlier ticket 15:14:44 <karsten> the tor-relays@ thread has an updated list of possible advantages/disadvantages. 15:14:53 <karsten> I'll include that, too. 15:15:09 <iwakeh> fine. 15:15:14 <karsten> to be honest, I'm okay if the final decision is that we're not doing it. 15:15:27 <karsten> I just want to have a final decision and not go back to this over and over. 15:15:35 <irl> yep, makes sense 15:15:40 <iwakeh> true. 15:15:47 <karsten> okay. 15:15:49 <irl> we should also include then the option of a hashed contact line being included 15:15:57 <karsten> aha! 15:15:58 <irl> to enable group detection without giving away the contact line 15:16:02 <karsten> good idea. 15:16:17 <irl> otherwise we'll do the whole thing and someone will come back with this suggestion 15:16:18 <karsten> want to read the thread again and see if you have more thoughts? 15:16:23 <karsten> heh, yes. 15:16:35 <karsten> before I reach out to privacy board folks? 15:16:38 <irl> shall we make an email up on a pad before sending it? 15:16:42 <karsten> sure! 15:16:43 <irl> and then send it tomorrow 15:16:54 <irl> (: 15:16:57 <iwakeh> good idea 15:17:05 <karsten> yep! 15:17:44 <karsten> last on the list: * Assigned Trac tickets (karsten) 15:17:50 <karsten> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?owner=karsten&owner=iwakeh&owner=irl&owner=metrics-team&status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&group=owner&max=300&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=type&col=priority&col=milestone&col=component&col=changetime&desc=1&order=changetime 15:18:30 <karsten> we should have another one for open reviews. 15:18:52 <karsten> some of my tickets are in need of review, as are some of yours. 15:19:09 <iwakeh> true, I started adding my name to the 15:19:26 <iwakeh> reviewer field and even assign reviews to myself. 15:19:42 <karsten> sounds useful. 15:20:01 <iwakeh> the list looks doable. 15:20:01 <karsten> I'll take a look at ticket in needs_review, and also assign reviews to myself. 15:20:08 <karsten> and come up with a ticket query for that. 15:20:21 <karsten> (probably a 2 min thing, but don't want to leave you waiting here.) 15:20:47 <karsten> anything else for today? 15:21:00 <irl> nothing more from me 15:21:18 <iwakeh> all set. 15:21:23 <karsten> awesome! 15:21:35 <karsten> thank you, and talk to you next week! bye, bye. 15:21:38 <iwakeh> bye, bye! 15:21:39 <irl> bye! 15:21:47 <karsten> #endmeeting