14:32:31 <karsten> #startmeeting metrics team 14:32:31 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Jan 25 14:32:31 2018 UTC. The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:32:31 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:32:39 <iwakeh> hi hiro! 14:33:04 <karsten> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/Oh4g0hNenh65QZNWRsIe5zxpB3e0axASeSgo5hKOp2A <- agenda pad 14:33:09 <karsten> irl2: the other meeting ended on time? 14:33:21 <irl2> karsten: yes, it was shorter than expected 14:33:26 <karsten> nice. :) 14:33:52 <karsten> agenda pad already has quite a few topics. 14:34:04 <iwakeh> only a few ;-) 14:34:05 <irl2> many many topics 14:34:05 <karsten> anything that is missing? 14:34:18 <karsten> (to be fair, I pasted the entire roadmap into it, including comments.) 14:34:42 <iwakeh> (from where?) 14:34:45 <karsten> but if nothing is missing, I'd say let's start. 14:34:50 <karsten> from trac, reformatted. 14:34:55 <iwakeh> ok 14:34:57 <karsten> I'll add updates back. 14:35:25 * iwakeh waiting for storm to load and reload and load ... 14:35:29 <karsten> ugh 14:36:03 <karsten> we can also start with another topic that doesn't require the pad. 14:36:05 <karsten> let's do that. 14:36:08 <karsten> * Compass shut down (irl) 14:36:18 <irl2> this is just an announcement 14:36:19 <karsten> what remains to be done there? 14:36:21 <karsten> aha! 14:36:23 <irl2> that compass is gone 14:36:30 <karsten> indeed. 14:36:42 <irl2> that's now two services gone, the first being globe 14:36:43 * karsten makes a note for the monthly report. 14:36:46 <irl2> making it all more managable 14:36:51 <karsten> yep. 14:37:25 <karsten> okay, the next one is: 14:37:27 <karsten> * onionperf errors (#24996) (irl) 14:37:40 <karsten> there's already a patch on the ticket. 14:38:06 <karsten> though I think you added the topic prior to that. 14:38:30 <irl2> i think i filed the ticket on behalf of armadev 14:38:40 <karsten> sounds good. 14:38:42 <irl2> and i think i added this to the agenda because hiro 14:39:10 <karsten> well, there are indeed a lot of failures and timeouts. 14:39:11 <hiro> I just wanted to make sure there was not something wrong with the onionperf vms 14:39:13 <karsten> but not 200%. 14:39:23 <karsten> maybe there is something wrong. 14:39:23 <irl2> but the comment looks sane on the ticket 14:39:26 <hiro> january there have been various updates 14:39:42 <karsten> irl2: want to leave a comment (now or after the meeting)? 14:39:42 <hiro> because of meltdown and spectre and those have been restarted a few times 14:39:48 <karsten> aha! 14:39:52 <iwakeh> oh 14:40:05 <karsten> still, that would be temporary downtimes. 14:40:09 <irl2> karsten: i will try to comment this evening on the patch 14:40:13 <hiro> so yesterday when irl was chatting about it I mentioned this 14:40:17 <karsten> irl2: thanks! 14:40:48 <hiro> yes 14:40:52 <karsten> okay. I didn't look in detail, but I'm under the impression that onionperfs don't provide very reliable measurements these days. 14:41:00 <hiro> also I think only hk is affected more than other vms 14:41:13 <karsten> how about we look again once the graph is fixed? 14:41:18 <hiro> sure 14:41:25 <iwakeh> makes sense. 14:41:44 <irl2> ok 14:41:46 * iwakeh has the pad again :-) 14:41:51 <karsten> great! 14:42:03 <karsten> should we start with reviewing the roadmap then? 14:42:10 <iwakeh> yep 14:42:22 <karsten> - Update all code to use Java 8 features (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Code) 14:42:36 <karsten> I said we started this, and it's ongoing. 14:42:39 <karsten> anything to add? 14:42:51 <iwakeh> reflects reality. 14:42:57 <karsten> ok. 14:43:02 <karsten> - Switch ExoneraTor and metrics-web from Tomcat to embedded Jetty, and harmonize directory structures (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Code) 14:43:07 <karsten> this is done. 14:43:16 <iwakeh> done. 14:43:20 <karsten> - Deploy better notification system for operational issues (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Operation) 14:43:23 <karsten> - discussed, not implemented anything yet 14:43:33 <karsten> at some point we should continue with that. 14:43:35 <irl2> onionoo is sort of monitored by metrics-bot 14:43:37 <karsten> but probably not in january. 14:43:47 <karsten> oh? 14:43:54 <irl2> it tells me when it's broken in #tor-test which isn't really the best set up 14:44:04 <irl2> but as it's polling onionoo regularly, i figured an alert was easy to do 14:44:22 <karsten> ok. 14:44:50 <karsten> so, we can still do a lot more there. 14:44:54 <irl2> indeed 14:44:56 <karsten> also including other services. 14:45:10 <karsten> - Make sure that each service has at least two operators (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Operation) 14:45:18 <karsten> - CollecTor and Onionoo are done, ExoneraTor and metrics-web remain, Relay Search doesn't have moving pieces on the server 14:45:26 <iwakeh> yes, or setting up other nagios emails for notification? 14:45:27 <karsten> which services did I miss? 14:45:42 <iwakeh> i.e. CollecTor's space alert. 14:45:51 <iwakeh> for corsicum 14:45:52 <karsten> iwakeh: yes, using more nagios notifications would work, too. 14:46:47 <karsten> more work remains for notifications. 14:46:56 <karsten> regarding two operators, 14:47:15 <karsten> that is also something where we could do more. 14:47:27 <karsten> not in january, though. 14:47:48 <karsten> okay, moving on 14:47:52 <karsten> - Add web server logs as new data source (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Sources) 14:47:55 <karsten> - currently in progress 14:48:05 <iwakeh> should we mark the 'not in Jan' still in January etc. remarks? 14:48:11 <karsten> sure. 14:49:11 <karsten> - Provide metrics timeline events as both a table on Tor Metrics pages and as an RSS/Atom feed that is also syndicated via Twitter to increase community engagement (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), News) 14:49:15 <karsten> - Tor Metrics pages done, RSS/Atom remains 14:49:27 <karsten> so, we did 50% of this, but I don't have plans for the remaining 50%. 14:49:36 <irl2> the RSS/Atom is just a JSP from the same data source 14:49:53 <irl2> i can do this but probably end of feb/march 14:50:11 <karsten> sounds good to me. 14:50:46 <karsten> (thanks!) 14:50:46 <karsten> - Make Atlas part of the Tor Metrics website (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Services) 14:50:50 <karsten> - half-way through, need to fully integrate it 14:51:04 <irl2> this is just needing time 14:51:06 <karsten> what was the schedule for that again? 14:51:23 <irl2> probably end of feb/march again 14:51:34 <karsten> great! 14:51:48 <karsten> - Make Compass part of Atlas in order to provide aggregated search results and details pages on Atlas and to finally shut down Compass (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Services) 14:51:52 <karsten> - done, right? Yes! 14:51:54 <karsten> yay. :) 14:51:56 <irl2> (: 14:52:03 <karsten> - Resolve ExoneraTor database slowness (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Services) 14:52:06 <karsten> - started by dropping requests for same day, database improvements remain 14:52:18 <karsten> I checked a week or so ago, and the slowness still exists. 14:52:34 <iwakeh> let's look into this more. 14:52:43 <karsten> but I don't have time to look deeper into this right now. 14:52:49 <karsten> it's a medium-sized project. 14:53:03 <iwakeh> I could after the webstats modules? 14:53:38 <iwakeh> depending on urgency of other tasks. 14:53:39 <karsten> hmm, or maybe we should make more progress on Sponsor 13 then? 14:53:45 <karsten> yeah, not sure. 14:53:56 <karsten> let's see when we're there, ok? 14:54:01 <iwakeh> keep it on the decision list. 14:54:05 <karsten> yep. 14:54:31 <karsten> - Add OONI graphs to Tor Metrics based on pre-aggregated data from vanilla Tor test and bridge reachability test (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Visualizations) 14:54:34 <karsten> - irl started this, needs more work, irl will meet with OONI people at Rome meeting to follow up 14:54:37 <karsten> sounds good. 14:54:46 <karsten> - Add IPv6 relay graphs to Tor Metrics based on existing descriptor contents (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), Visualizations) 14:54:49 <karsten> - done; the remaining specification part belongs into Sponsor 13 14:54:55 <karsten> yay, something is done! 14:54:59 <iwakeh> :-) 14:55:10 <karsten> - Rename Tor Metrics components to make them easier to understand for people outside of the team (M) (Short-term goals (Q4/2017), About) 14:55:13 <karsten> - in progress (Atlas became Relay Search) 14:55:37 <irl2> should we do focus groups and similar things for this one? 14:55:44 <irl2> i'm unsure what level we take this too 14:55:46 <iwakeh> yes, and new modules adhere to the new structure. 14:56:03 <karsten> focus groups? 14:56:13 <irl2> get people outside the team together and try out names on them 14:56:18 <karsten> iwakeh: you mean package structure? 14:56:30 <iwakeh> yes 14:56:38 <karsten> irl2: yes, maybe! 14:56:49 <karsten> want to describe that briefly on the pad? 14:56:54 <irl2> ok 14:57:39 <karsten> - Document aggregated statistics files better (Sponsor 13) (L) (Medium-term goals (until Q3/2018), Research) 14:57:42 <iwakeh> package structure can be slipped in, like immediately with the webstats changes for collector. 14:57:42 <karsten> - started, but no more than 10% done 14:58:08 <karsten> iwakeh: yes. but we should also consider renaming existing packages when there are no pending merges. 14:58:38 <karsten> iwakeh: in fact, should we list all unmerged branches and see which packages we can just rename now? 14:58:38 <iwakeh> yes, that's what I mean after the merge of the webstats module. 14:59:08 <iwakeh> could work. 14:59:26 <karsten> ok. 14:59:38 <karsten> - Put external research data on the website, including Rob's phantomtrain OnionPerf data and Yixin's BGP monitoring data (M) (Medium-term goals (until Q3/2018), Research) 14:59:41 <karsten> - iwakeh started this 14:59:48 <karsten> this is low-priority, I think. 15:00:14 <iwakeh> nothing urgent. but on my list. 15:00:19 <karsten> ok. 15:00:23 <karsten> - Re-process bridge descriptor tarballs to retain âcontactâ lines in server descriptors and âfingerprintâ lines in statuses (M) (Medium-term goals (until Q3/2018), Sources) 15:00:27 <karsten> - no progress 15:00:38 <karsten> I just need to start this thread on tor-dev@. 15:00:53 <karsten> but, not in january. 15:01:10 <karsten> - Support PrivCount development and integrate its data as successor to statistics reported by relays and bridges (L) (Medium-term goals (until Q3/2018), Sources) 15:01:13 <karsten> - not much to do for us yet 15:01:15 <karsten> is that correct? 15:01:25 <iwakeh> well, reading specs and watching. 15:01:36 <iwakeh> but no need to interfere in any way. 15:01:38 <karsten> - Help the Core Tor and Tor Browser teams with ongoing measurements (M) (Medium-term goals (until Q3/2018), Sources) 15:01:41 <karsten> - no progress (rather not much to do?) (not sure, weren't we talking about measuring something for the Tor Browser team? looking... was that #24018 ?) 15:01:44 <karsten> iwakeh: true. 15:02:18 <irl2> i remember we wanted to put tor browser into onionperf at some point 15:02:36 <karsten> uhm. 15:02:47 <iwakeh> now that you mention it, I vaguely remember 15:03:02 <irl2> using selenium or something similar 15:03:19 <irl2> but i also wonder if this task is just to ensure we have time in case measurements or analysis were requested 15:03:24 <iwakeh> comment:10 on the ticket 15:03:51 <karsten> okay. I didn't follow that ticket very much. 15:03:58 <karsten> so, more work remains. 15:04:14 <karsten> should we go through all roadmap items and assign a percentage done? 15:04:30 <karsten> just so that we have a rough idea what % of work is done after 4/12 months? 15:04:34 <iwakeh> maybe, next time? 15:04:40 <karsten> okay. 15:04:54 <iwakeh> today we become aware of all tasks and set the % next time. 15:05:25 <karsten> yes, makes sense. 15:05:30 <karsten> thanks for stopping me here. ;) 15:05:39 <karsten> alright! 15:05:48 <karsten> anything else on the roadmap topic? 15:06:15 <iwakeh> seems we addressed all topics. 15:06:34 <karsten> regarding the roadmap, yes. 15:06:37 <karsten> okay. 15:06:41 <karsten> * Rome meeting plans (karsten) 15:07:14 <karsten> iwakeh: IIUC, you're not going to make it to rome, right? 15:07:26 <karsten> :( 15:07:32 <iwakeh> correct 15:07:46 <karsten> should we try to schedule a pre-meeting with just the team? 15:07:50 <karsten> like last time? 15:08:23 <irl2> how far in advance would this be? 15:08:24 <iwakeh> depends 15:08:45 <karsten> I don't know, the idea is quite new. 15:08:56 <karsten> maybe second half of February? 15:09:25 <irl2> this is probably ok for me, i'm travelling at the start of february 15:09:43 <irl2> i have i think a paper deadline in february, so i'd need to check my calendar really 15:09:54 <karsten> okay. discuss more via email? 15:09:56 <iwakeh> Would April also be an option to discuss and plan with the march results? 15:10:07 <karsten> also worth thinking about, yes. 15:10:19 <irl2> that would perhaps work for me more easily 15:10:23 <iwakeh> mail is fine. 15:10:34 <karsten> great! 15:10:49 <irl2> for rome itself, did we decide a plan? 15:11:04 <irl2> karsten: you said don't book travel until we plan 15:11:11 <karsten> right. 15:11:29 <karsten> I could imagine being there on the team day anyway. 15:12:40 <karsten> we wouldn't be able to make plans for the whole team. 15:12:56 <karsten> but we could do some work while we're there. 15:13:04 <irl2> yes 15:13:23 <karsten> and maybe schedule meetings with other teams about specific topics. 15:13:34 <irl2> this sounds good 15:13:50 <karsten> okay, so, let's plan to be there for the team day then. 15:14:12 <irl2> is that "day 0" or is there a "day -1" 15:14:48 <karsten> depends on what day 1 is. 15:14:59 <irl2> heh, ok, i will mail you before booking anything 15:15:06 <irl2> to make sure we're both agreeing on what date is when 15:15:06 <karsten> great! 15:15:11 <karsten> yes, good idea. 15:15:22 <karsten> moving on? 15:15:26 <irl2> yes 15:15:30 <karsten> * if time permits: discuss: format for sponsor13 deliverables; decide on level of detail; (iwakeh) 15:15:42 <iwakeh> Maybe it is too much to discuss this now, but while reviewing I noticed 15:15:52 <iwakeh> that it would be helpful to know the future format and 15:16:06 <iwakeh> for example, explanations 15:16:18 <iwakeh> should be accompanied by formulae and 15:16:31 <iwakeh> concrete definitions. I made more suggestion 15:16:44 <iwakeh> on the branch I supplied earlier. 15:16:48 <karsten> can you add all those thoughts and suggestions to the .md file? 15:16:51 <karsten> ah, you already did? 15:17:01 <iwakeh> yes, including 15:17:05 <karsten> I didn't read all emails before this meeting. 15:17:10 <iwakeh> an Ant task for generating it. 15:17:21 <karsten> I think it's the perfect time to discuss this now. as in, these days, not now at this very moment. 15:17:32 <karsten> great! 15:17:52 <karsten> I don't know what the right level of detail is. 15:17:54 <iwakeh> html would allow using mathjax 15:18:08 <karsten> I'm not sold on .md. 15:18:20 <iwakeh> md equals to html 15:18:23 <iwakeh> more or less 15:18:31 <iwakeh> you can use html inside md 15:18:41 <karsten> oh. 15:18:45 <iwakeh> I made some comments inside as example. 15:18:50 <karsten> sounds good. 15:18:54 <iwakeh> in the branch wait .. 15:19:13 <iwakeh> #24217 15:19:15 <karsten> maybe this is a good question for the people I listed at the top of the document. 15:19:28 <iwakeh> https://gitweb.torproject.org/user/iwakeh/metrics-web.git/log/?h=task-24217 15:19:29 <karsten> the level-of-detail question. 15:19:35 <iwakeh> yes 15:19:48 <karsten> I'll check after the meeting. or, more realistically, tomorrow morning. 15:19:54 <iwakeh> I suggested some things at the end of the md doc. 15:19:58 <karsten> thanks for the quick review! 15:20:03 <iwakeh> most importantly, 15:20:24 <iwakeh> I want us to first make the format decision before writing more and 15:20:58 <karsten> reformatting is easy. 15:20:59 <iwakeh> keep in mind that such a doc/spec needs a little math terminology. 15:21:08 <karsten> right. 15:21:13 <iwakeh> which might not be available everywhere. 15:21:19 <iwakeh> formatwise 15:21:25 <karsten> I'm just not sure whether we can come up with one that fits everything before we at least tackled all parts. 15:21:47 <karsten> but really, reformatting is not as time consuming. 15:21:59 <iwakeh> the general format? 15:22:00 <karsten> it's the part where I need to go through really old code. 15:22:23 <iwakeh> maybe, just discuss further on ticket and 15:22:31 <iwakeh> raise the topic again next week here? 15:22:36 <karsten> sounds good. 15:22:56 <karsten> moving on. 15:22:57 <karsten> * Assigned Trac tickets (karsten) 15:23:01 <karsten> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?owner=karsten&owner=iwakeh&owner=irl&owner=metrics-team&status=accepted&status=assigned&status=merge_ready&status=needs_information&status=needs_review&status=needs_revision&status=new&status=reopened&group=owner&max=300&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=type&col=priority&col=milestone&col=component&col=changetime&desc=1&order=changetime 15:23:07 <karsten> long link. 15:23:40 <karsten> would you want to go through your tickets after this meeting and unassign those that you're not going to work on over the next week? 15:23:41 <iwakeh> longer list 15:24:19 <irl2> by unassign do you mean have a status not accepted or set owner to metrics-team? 15:24:28 <karsten> set owner to metrics-team. 15:24:47 <iwakeh> ok 15:24:54 <karsten> you could even do that as batch modifification. 15:24:58 <karsten> -fi 15:25:11 <irl2> ok 15:25:20 <karsten> great! 15:25:27 <karsten> * Non-tech/non-slang English translator requirement (karsten) 15:25:42 * iwakeh edited the tilte 15:25:46 <iwakeh> title 15:25:59 <karsten> so, I expect that we're going to write at least 10 times as much text as I wrote for the Servers graphs. 15:26:05 <karsten> probably more. 15:26:12 <iwakeh> surely more. 15:26:39 <karsten> should we ask for somebody to help us with that? 15:26:48 <karsten> or can we handle that on our own? 15:27:11 <karsten> 20 times? 15:27:33 <iwakeh> we could finish an example 15:27:51 <iwakeh> for let's say relays and bridges graphs and find out. 15:28:28 <karsten> the thing is, if we want to ask for resources, we should do it today. 15:28:39 <karsten> because today and tomorrow is when plans are being made. 15:28:44 <karsten> as isabela mentioned last week. 15:28:52 <iwakeh> ah, ok. 15:29:05 <iwakeh> I think there should be support 15:29:18 <iwakeh> for writing things nicely, definitely 15:29:30 <iwakeh> and that person should be involved early to 15:29:38 <karsten> okay. I'll ask for help with that then. 15:29:56 <iwakeh> acquaint themselves with the topics at hand. 15:30:09 <karsten> makes sense. 15:30:25 <karsten> okay, I think that was the last topic on the agenda. 15:30:40 <karsten> anything else? :) 15:30:58 <iwakeh> nope. 15:31:16 <irl2> nothing from me 15:31:39 <karsten> alright! thanks for your time. :) let's talk more via email and next week. 15:31:46 <irl2> ok (: 15:31:49 <karsten> bye, bye! 15:31:52 <irl2> bye! 15:31:56 <iwakeh> bye, bye! 15:31:58 <karsten> #endmeeting