15:00:08 <karsten> #startmeeting metrics team
15:00:08 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Mar  9 15:00:08 2017 UTC.  The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:08 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:14 <karsten> https://pad.riseup.net/p/3M7VyrTVgjlF <- agenda pad
15:00:28 <karsten> stargazer: if you want to discuss something metrics-related, feel free to add to the agenda.
15:01:35 <karsten> what's missing, what's missing....
15:03:36 <karsten> should we start and keep appending topics while talking?
15:03:48 <iwakeh> sure. that's fine.
15:04:02 <stargazer> i would like to know if metrics projects are gonna be considered for GSoC?
15:04:13 <iwakeh> unfortunately,
15:04:38 <iwakeh> not as we are quite busy currently and
15:04:49 <iwakeh> during the time for GSOC.
15:05:01 <karsten> yeah, we hope to have more time for mentoring next year.
15:05:12 <stargazer> oh
15:05:12 <karsten> sorry!
15:05:36 <karsten> alright, let's start with the first topic.
15:05:40 <karsten> - Atlas blog post and comments (irl)
15:05:43 <karsten> irl around?
15:05:44 <stargazer> well, that's alright.. Tor is a brilliant project and i'm sure i'll be here again next year
15:05:45 <irl> hello
15:05:49 * irl seems just in time
15:05:52 <karsten> stargazer: sounds great!
15:05:58 <iwakeh> stargazer: fine!
15:06:12 <stargazer> i'll log off then.. have a nice meeting... :)
15:06:14 <karsten> irl: thanks for fighting the spam comments and for responding to the ham!
15:06:19 <karsten> thanks, stargazer :)
15:06:22 <iwakeh> the ham?
15:06:29 <irl> stargazer: i know debian does a lot of GSoC projects https://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2017/Projects
15:06:31 <karsten> the !spam
15:06:31 <irl> too late
15:06:50 <irl> ok, yes, we did get a lot of spam
15:06:52 <iwakeh> well, bad ham might be spam.
15:07:04 <irl> we didn't get as much abuse as i was expecting, so that's good
15:07:21 <irl> i'm glad someone else handled the post-quantum crypto comments
15:07:32 <irl> i think overall the blog post went well
15:07:39 <karsten> yes, I think so, too!
15:07:57 <irl> there does seem to be some demand for atlas without javascript, i'm wondering if we can add some noscript and links to alternative services
15:07:59 <karsten> regarding comments, we usually leave those open for a week.
15:08:08 <irl> like use an onionoo cli tool or use onionite
15:08:30 <karsten> hmm
15:08:38 <iwakeh> but, they want the graphs
15:08:44 <iwakeh> w/o script probably.
15:09:03 <irl> gsoc project: add matplotlib to an onionoo cli tool
15:09:06 <irl> done
15:09:13 <karsten> heh
15:09:26 <iwakeh> good idea!
15:09:31 <Samdney> :)
15:09:39 <irl> onionite generates ascii charts in <pre> tags, which i thought was innovative
15:10:00 <irl> i don't think that at the number of requests that atlas serves, this is practical for us to do
15:10:07 <irl> there's a good reason atlas is mostly client side
15:10:17 <karsten> yes.
15:10:20 <irl> and we have good cache hit rates on the backend
15:10:43 <karsten> well, up to you whether you want to add a link.
15:10:54 <karsten> maybe, if you do, ask them first if they can handle the load.
15:11:01 <irl> yep, will do
15:11:12 <irl> i'll point them at our munin graphs also, so they have a clear idea
15:11:19 <irl> i don't want to run up their AWS bill or whatever
15:11:25 <karsten> true!
15:11:32 <karsten> do you have the munin link handy?
15:11:47 <irl> not handy, it's behind a password
15:11:49 <karsten> I always forget how to put in user name and pass.
15:11:49 <irl> but i do have
15:11:59 <irl> https://people.torproject.org/~irl/volatile/varnish_cache-day.png
15:12:02 <karsten> yes, but you can encode them in the url.
15:12:06 <irl> that's what happened when we did the blog post
15:12:42 <irl> it looks like it died for a little while, then was serving many many requests over the normal rate
15:12:52 <irl> (onionoo graphs, not atlas specific)
15:12:56 <RaBe> wow that's a lot of requests...
15:13:01 <irl> (:
15:13:04 <karsten> https://tor-guest:password@munin.torproject.org/varnish-day.html
15:13:10 <karsten> does that work?
15:13:32 <irl> yep
15:13:33 <RaBe> i can access that, yes
15:13:38 <Samdney> y
15:13:39 <karsten> great.
15:13:56 <irl> onionoo is omeiense.torproject.org i think, not the other one
15:13:59 <irl> (or maybe it's both?)
15:14:07 <karsten> that's what I wanted to mention in the next topic,
15:14:10 <karsten> but I'll mention it now.
15:14:12 <karsten> it's both!
15:14:20 <irl> ah cool (:
15:14:28 <karsten> weasel was so kind to set up orestis as another front to omeiense.
15:14:41 <karsten> he did explain which tool talks to which, but I forgot.
15:14:47 <irl> awesome
15:14:55 <karsten> both omeiense and orestis are powered by the same onionoo java process.
15:15:05 <karsten> and in theory, we could add more orestises.
15:15:20 <karsten> though another plan would be to add another java process to orestis.
15:15:29 <karsten> redundancy!
15:15:43 <karsten> but for now, it seems we can handle load better.
15:15:48 <iwakeh> good.
15:16:14 <irl> we got some odd things happening at high loads
15:16:25 <irl> where one document would load but the bandwidth documents would fail
15:16:29 <karsten> right!
15:16:30 <irl> which caused all kinds of errors
15:16:31 <karsten> those are fun.
15:16:46 <irl> we have tickets for this already
15:16:53 <irl> so this will be handled
15:16:57 <karsten> great!
15:17:13 <irl> oh, one other thing on atlas
15:17:27 <irl> we're looking at splitting out a new column for not flags flags
15:17:37 <karsten> sounds good.
15:17:40 <irl> we're thinking to call them properties, and these are synthetic
15:17:50 <irl> for now, these will be implemented in atlas
15:17:58 <karsten> sure. my main concern was that the term "flags" is already taken.
15:17:58 <irl> but later, i'd like these to be implemented in onionoo
15:18:05 <karsten> plausible.
15:18:30 <karsten> if it's not too much effort, it would be great to prototype them in atlas and see which make sense, are useful, etc.
15:18:39 <irl> the properties being considered so far are: "not recommended", "ipv6" and another one i forgot
15:18:46 <RaBe> "offline"? :)
15:19:02 <irl> my favourite one though is armadev's suggestion: "tshirt" - this relay has earned a tshirt
15:19:06 <irl> RaBe: that was it
15:19:31 <iwakeh> add a little t-shirt icon?
15:19:35 <irl> yep (:
15:19:39 <Samdney> +1
15:19:40 <karsten> well, we already have "recommended_version" and "running".
15:19:40 <iwakeh> well :-)
15:19:50 <irl> maybe a little t-shirt with an onion on it
15:19:51 <karsten> so, "ipv6" and "tshirt" are missing?
15:20:27 <iwakeh> the size needs to in the contact line then ;-)
15:20:30 <irl> karsten: my preference would be that onionoo gives an array of strings, and there's no logic in atlas for it
15:20:34 <karsten> "this relay would currently qualify for a t-shirt"
15:20:46 <karsten> irl: ah, sure.
15:20:47 <iwakeh> but, troublesome if there
15:21:00 <iwakeh> is a bug triggering the "earned.." message.
15:21:11 <karsten> right. :)
15:21:19 <karsten> well, let's just avoid bugs.
15:21:27 <irl> indeed
15:21:29 <iwakeh> oh, sure :-)
15:21:48 <karsten> so, can you add an onionoo ticket for that, so that we don't forget?
15:22:14 <karsten> irl: ^
15:22:15 <irl> yes, i can, but i'll do it later today so i can have all the details in it
15:22:21 <karsten> yes, sure.
15:22:35 <karsten> it might not happen before AMS anyway, so no big rush.
15:22:47 <irl> ok
15:22:56 <irl> well, that's all from me on atlas unless there were any questions
15:23:14 <karsten> no questions, but big thanks for doing the blog post and handling the response!
15:23:23 <irl> (:
15:23:37 <karsten> shall we move on?
15:23:51 <iwakeh> yep.
15:24:02 <karsten> RaBe: of course, big thanks for contributing to atlas for the blog post. :)
15:24:16 <karsten> - metrics-lib tutorials and web page (karsten|iwakeh)
15:24:27 <karsten> so, we have some content.
15:24:35 <karsten> which is ~80% done.
15:24:49 <karsten> and we have a short todo list.
15:25:00 <karsten> one todo item was to have syntax highlighting on the page.
15:25:13 <iwakeh> only the code part.
15:25:18 <karsten> RaBe already suggested something.
15:25:22 <iwakeh> cool
15:25:27 <iwakeh> what?
15:25:35 <karsten> err, highlight.js?
15:25:53 <karsten> https://highlightjs.org/
15:26:06 <karsten> style: vs
15:26:20 <RaBe> there's a source code example on http://metrics-lib.cc-ltd.net/
15:26:22 <karsten> I have some code here that I can add once we create this page.
15:26:27 <karsten> hah, right, RaBe, even easier.
15:26:46 <karsten> so visual.
15:27:04 <iwakeh> colourful
15:27:04 <karsten> code from RaBe, that is.
15:27:32 <RaBe> we can select of about 30 color schemes
15:27:38 <RaBe> or even create a own
15:28:08 <karsten> right. but it seems we'll just need to make tiny changes for that and don't need to switch the library.
15:28:17 <iwakeh> great!
15:28:20 <karsten> so, we can start with this and improve from there.
15:28:27 <iwakeh> is there line numbering possible?
15:28:50 <karsten> I was wondering about that, too.
15:28:56 <karsten> but if it's js, what about users without js?
15:29:06 <iwakeh> grey
15:29:07 <karsten> we cannot refer to line numbers if js is required for showing them.
15:29:20 <iwakeh> true.
15:30:16 <karsten> unrelated questions:
15:30:20 <karsten> - okay to leave out tutorials from metrics-lib.git?
15:30:35 <iwakeh> yes
15:30:40 <karsten> - okay to create https://metrics.torproject.org/metrics-lib.html with new content?
15:30:47 <iwakeh> b/c the readme refers to them
15:31:07 <karsten> hmm?
15:31:12 <iwakeh> 404?
15:31:23 <karsten> what do you mean above with
15:31:24 <karsten> 15:31:06 < iwakeh> b/c the readme refers to them
15:31:39 <iwakeh> >>  okay to leave out tutorials from metrics-lib.git
15:31:42 <karsten> (the metrics-lib.html page does not exist yet.)
15:31:58 <karsten> you mean refer from metrics-lib's README to that URL?
15:32:00 <iwakeh> ah, that was a question/topic.
15:32:29 <karsten> yes, sorry.
15:32:30 <iwakeh> yes, didn't we discuss that on the pad?
15:32:37 <karsten> ah, maybe.
15:32:53 <karsten> just some questions coming to mind 5 minutes before the meeting.
15:32:59 <iwakeh> ok?
15:33:22 <karsten> alright, I should maybe look at the todo list from that other meeting first. :)
15:33:33 <iwakeh> ;-)
15:33:37 <RaBe> there's a JS only line numbering plugin for highlightjs, http://wcoder.github.io/highlightjs-line-numbers.js/ - if we want line numbers for non js users, we'll have to put it in the source code and just style it some way...
15:34:00 <iwakeh> uh, no , rather js.
15:34:19 <iwakeh> maybe, users without js copy the code into an editor and
15:34:28 <iwakeh> can follow the description that way?
15:34:50 <iwakeh> if the code description refers to line numbers.
15:34:58 <karsten> do we have to refer to line numbers?
15:35:02 <RaBe> or even just count the lines if it's a short excerpt...
15:35:44 <karsten> how about we leave them out for now?
15:35:48 <iwakeh> yes.
15:35:53 <karsten> ok.
15:35:59 <iwakeh> we have good comments in the code.
15:35:59 <Samdney> I wouldn't refer to line numbers. If something changed in code ... I would refer to the function names ect...
15:36:17 <karsten> right.
15:36:23 <iwakeh> good point.
15:36:32 <iwakeh> and some js less.
15:36:41 <RaBe> ok, so no line numbers for now :)
15:36:48 <karsten> yep.
15:37:13 <karsten> okay, should we move on to the next topic, also web-related?
15:37:22 <iwakeh> sure.
15:37:28 <karsten> - onionoo.html and collector.html on Metrics (karsten)
15:37:46 <karsten> so, we have redesigned index.html files in both git repos.
15:37:59 <karsten> and we discussed somewhere to put them on metrics.tpo.
15:38:13 <karsten> should we move forward with that?
15:38:28 <karsten> I know I said something about waiting for the rebranding discussion to be done,
15:38:31 <iwakeh> we could just try the submodules.
15:38:38 <karsten> but it seems like that's going to take longer.
15:38:50 <karsten> git submodules.
15:38:56 <iwakeh> yes,
15:38:58 <iwakeh> and
15:39:20 <iwakeh> the rebranding shouldn't make us hide the pages until a decision is reached.
15:39:29 <karsten> right.
15:39:43 <karsten> if we change names, we'll put in a redirect.
15:39:54 <karsten> and the redirect on, say, https://onionoo.torproject.org/ will just be updated.
15:40:25 <karsten> so, regarding the git submodule approach,
15:40:41 <karsten> what's the best way to add this to ant?
15:40:56 <iwakeh> index.html are just there.
15:41:03 <iwakeh> or do you refer to javadoc
15:41:05 <iwakeh> ?
15:41:18 <karsten> ant will have to take the index.html from its submodule and take everything inside <body>
15:41:22 <iwakeh> The example is the approach for metrics-base
15:41:39 <karsten> and add some jsp and then put it in the .war file.
15:41:45 <iwakeh> ah
15:42:22 <iwakeh> can't index.html include a file with just the <body> contents?
15:42:42 <karsten> not if we want to keep it usable for mirrors.
15:43:37 <karsten> speaking of, we should probably rip out the metrics design parts from onionoo.git and collector.git and make sure the pages still look good with default bootstrap.
15:43:42 <karsten> also for mirrors.
15:43:46 <iwakeh> Or, ant combines these files?
15:44:13 <karsten> you mean the ant in onionoo.git just combines it differently than the ant in metrics-web.git?
15:44:27 <iwakeh> Oh, you want plain style for mirrors?
15:44:35 <iwakeh> yes.
15:44:37 <karsten> I think we'll need it.
15:44:50 <karsten> or a minimal style that is not green and purple.
15:45:01 <karsten> but, low maintenance effort.
15:45:13 <karsten> okay, ticket maybe?
15:45:17 <iwakeh> add minimal style to make thing readable.
15:45:21 <karsten> yes.
15:45:21 <iwakeh> yes.
15:45:48 <karsten> okay!
15:45:48 <RaBe> well, wouldn't that be just removing the tor stylesheet file and keep the default bootstrap css? :)
15:46:01 <karsten> that sounds like low maintenance effort!
15:46:01 <iwakeh> the javadoc but
15:46:10 <iwakeh> the index.html is different?
15:46:48 <karsten> javadoc is just metrics-lib, right?
15:47:00 <karsten> and we don't have metrics-lib mirrors.
15:47:04 <iwakeh> the others too.
15:47:18 <karsten> do you want to put them on metrics.tpo, too?
15:47:21 <iwakeh> but the javadoc is not on the web-page.
15:47:28 <karsten> right.
15:47:35 <iwakeh> no, they are no apis
15:47:40 <karsten> right.
15:47:51 <karsten> what we could do:
15:48:09 <karsten> not sure if we want to, but we could apply the shiny metrics style only for the javadocs generated by metrics-web.
15:48:14 <karsten> and keep the default otherwise.
15:48:35 <karsten> but it doesn't really matter.
15:48:51 <karsten> ticket!
15:48:53 <iwakeh> i think we
15:49:00 <iwakeh> can just keep the javadoc as is.
15:49:05 <karsten> works for me.
15:49:23 <karsten> alright, moving on?
15:49:26 <iwakeh> This is metrics' content not mirror content, the javadoc.
15:49:29 <iwakeh> yes.
15:49:46 <karsten> except when somebody modifies the code on their mirror.
15:50:01 <karsten> but, it's not on the web, so what.
15:50:07 <karsten> - OnionPerf integration into CollecTor (karsten|iwakeh)
15:50:08 <iwakeh> bthey won't publish the javadoc?
15:50:16 <iwakeh> ok next topic.
15:50:26 <karsten> javadoc on an onionoo mirror?
15:50:30 <karsten> or collector mirror?
15:50:40 <iwakeh> noone would want that.
15:50:40 <karsten> they'll publish the modified spec.
15:50:43 <karsten> hehe
15:50:49 <karsten> OnionPerf!
15:50:54 <iwakeh> !
15:51:00 <karsten> I think we're making progress on the ticket.
15:51:11 <iwakeh> step by step.
15:51:12 <karsten> and hiro is not here, I think.
15:51:13 <karsten> yes.
15:51:40 <karsten> btw, the cool thing about onionperf is that we'll get two things out of it:
15:51:49 <karsten> a replacement for the torperf instances
15:51:57 <karsten> and new measurements to onion services.
15:52:03 <karsten> both are already running.
15:52:10 <iwakeh> which again?
15:52:21 <iwakeh> the 'new'
15:52:36 <karsten> ah, the same static downloads but to an onion service.
15:52:47 <karsten> 50KB, 1MB, 5MB.
15:52:51 <iwakeh> ah, true.
15:53:10 <karsten> this could be our
15:53:11 <karsten> 5.2. Develop and deploy at least one more user model in addition to the current model.
15:53:20 <iwakeh> fine :-)
15:53:23 <karsten> and people do care about onion service performance.
15:53:32 <iwakeh> yes.
15:53:45 <karsten> anyway, I think we're doing good on the ticket.
15:53:50 <karsten> let's keep the discussion there.
15:54:01 <iwakeh> ok
15:54:08 <karsten> last topic on the list:
15:54:10 <karsten> - Tech report draft (iwakeh)
15:54:22 <iwakeh> Quite some distractions,
15:54:29 <iwakeh> but the week
15:54:30 <karsten> uhmmmm ;)
15:54:38 <iwakeh> is not over yet.
15:54:50 <karsten> true!
15:54:55 <iwakeh> ;-)
15:55:18 <iwakeh> Maybe, I should keep the email client off ... :-)
15:55:20 <karsten> okay, let me know if you have any questions, and of course if you have something to read.
15:55:25 <karsten> hehehe
15:55:28 <iwakeh> yes, sure.
15:55:36 <karsten> sorry for the distractions.
15:55:48 <karsten> many things happening in parallel right now.
15:55:48 <iwakeh> All that work without readers would be bad .
15:56:06 <iwakeh> yes, multitasking.
15:56:20 <karsten> my hope is that we'll have enough time to finish everything between AMS and the end of june.
15:56:32 <iwakeh> that's the plan.
15:56:38 <karsten> and if we can finish off some stuff now, even better.
15:56:53 <iwakeh> right.
15:57:03 <karsten> okay, looks like we're done.
15:57:08 <iwakeh> yep.
15:57:09 <karsten> 12 minutes later than usual.
15:57:15 <iwakeh> sigh
15:57:23 <iwakeh> :-)
15:57:26 <karsten> cool. thanks, everyone!
15:57:32 <Samdney> :)
15:57:34 <karsten> have a good one. bye!
15:57:36 <iwakeh> thanks, and bye bye!
15:57:37 <RaBe> bye!
15:57:38 <Samdney> bye
15:57:40 <karsten> #endmeeting