21:13:21 <asn> #startmeeting 0.3.0 triage
21:13:21 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Dec 15 21:13:21 2016 UTC.  The chair is asn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
21:13:21 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
21:13:28 <asn> (better late than never)
21:13:35 <nickm> mwa ha ha
21:14:03 <nickm> ooh shiny
21:14:25 <teor> if you are colourblind, the darker ticket numbers are "green"
21:15:46 <dgoulet> ok first pass done
21:15:55 <dgoulet> I'll make a pass with RED for NO NO NO defer!
21:16:00 <nickm> heee
21:17:13 <dgoulet> ok very few of those eheh
21:17:37 <dgoulet> we'll wait now on teor and asn to finish to discuss contention on some ticket :)
21:18:56 * nickm marks more guard things green
21:19:10 <asn> what's up with #15054, no one voted it but it seems important
21:19:59 <teor> don't know enough?
21:20:18 <nickm> So, what's left with 220 is UI stuff.
21:20:26 <nickm> (mainly)
21:20:45 <nickm> Oh. I want the authority-side stuff (keypinning) to go in!
21:21:02 <teor> Switching connections, please hold :-)
21:21:30 <teor> Nope, trac is just slow
21:22:40 <asn> welcome Yawning
21:24:12 <Yawning> huh?
21:25:25 <dgoulet> asn: the #20700 is basically "we'll see" or we let it in 030 for now?
21:25:32 <dgoulet> prop224: Implement client authorization
21:26:39 <asn> i think we can safely defer it
21:26:43 <dgoulet> ack
21:26:49 <asn> #20852 is where it's at
21:26:52 <dgoulet> yah
21:26:56 <dgoulet> I put that one in
21:27:03 <dgoulet> trac is _super_ slow ouf
21:27:44 <dgoulet> btw I'm coloring more as I see priority matching
21:28:02 <nickm> So, let's imagine that we wind up with 3 categories.  "YES", "NO", and "YES, IF THERE IS TIME."
21:28:19 <nickm> Nothing should be in the third category unless there is somebody who would like to do it, time permitting
21:28:34 <dgoulet> ok so let's go binary then! Green or Red :D
21:28:40 <dgoulet> no yellow people! :P
21:28:49 <nickm> let's nominate stuff for red!
21:29:13 <dgoulet> 56 to 61
21:29:17 <dgoulet> all the callgraph stuff
21:29:22 <nickm> I nominate: #18509 !  #18788 !
21:29:25 <nickm> Okay!
21:29:54 <nickm> Actually I disagree with 19307! I want to do that!
21:30:03 <dgoulet> nickm: green it!
21:30:07 <nickm> yellowed it!
21:30:15 <dgoulet> oh yellow is allowed now :O
21:30:26 <nickm> anybody love 18509 (Summarize our crypto migration plans in one place) ?
21:30:40 <nickm> or 18788 (Make the copyright license clear for torspec and proposals) ?
21:30:41 <dgoulet> dunno what it is so red it, no objection
21:31:19 <dgoulet> #20000 is kind of meta also... I'm going to red it
21:31:35 <dgoulet> as I don't see action items soo much :S
21:31:39 <nickm> Yawning: how do you feel about #19429 these days? FWICT we aren't using any deprecated-in-1.0.2 functions, and we can't stop using deprecated-in-1.1 functions in openssl.
21:32:18 <nickm> hm. taking a look at the trac ticket for 20000 to see what surprises I was talking about
21:32:27 <nickm> yeah, ok.
21:32:36 <dgoulet> nickm: how do you feel with greening all "merge_ready" ?
21:32:45 <nickm> Yes, sounds good!
21:32:47 <dgoulet> on it
21:32:54 <nickm> also all needs_review
21:32:57 <dgoulet> ok
21:33:45 <dgoulet> #20824 is contentious though but in needs review
21:33:50 <dgoulet> (guard stuff ^)
21:34:12 <nickm> I should probably green #20931 or stem tests will break :)
21:34:21 <nickm> dgoulet: I think it should be considerd "in"
21:34:25 <dgoulet> ok
21:34:29 <nickm> It's a bad feature, but dropping features is bad
21:35:09 <Yawning> nickm: I think there's still cleanup potential
21:35:18 <Yawning> but, it's not a big deal till stuff breaks
21:35:23 <nickm> Yawning: you want to do it in 0.3.0?
21:35:33 <Yawning> if I get around to it?
21:35:40 <dgoulet> I nominate for RED: #20554 , #14828, #20289
21:35:46 <Yawning> I have no idea how busy I will be
21:36:09 <nickm> ok, calling it yellow
21:36:29 <nickm> dgoulet: fine with me; any other HS/Circ people have thoughts?
21:36:49 <dgoulet> asn seems to agree on at least one of them :)
21:37:08 <asn> i think i  agree. let me take a seocnd look.
21:37:49 <dgoulet> we have many fallback dirauth ticket that have no opinion so I guess teor you are in charge on those :P
21:38:09 <asn> dgoulet: yes lets red those 3
21:38:29 <dgoulet> done
21:38:34 <nickm> I moved many of them to a new component
21:38:58 <nickm> (and removed them from tor: 0.3.0.x-final)
21:39:24 <dgoulet> #18346 ... not sure it's realistic if it's what I think
21:39:30 <nickm> asn: I'm going to call your #20862 and #20863 yellow.
21:39:53 <nickm> likewise weasel's #20872
21:39:54 <asn> how about red: #20605, #20604, #20534, #20371. they seem like performance things that require more research/proposal.
21:40:00 <asn> nickm: sounds good
21:40:37 <dgoulet> asn: agree on those 4
21:40:44 <nickm> teor: How do you feel about #18481 ? Right now it's the only "very low" thing that isn't sorted into a colo{u,}r
21:40:47 <dgoulet> would be nice but let's go conservative for 030
21:40:51 <teor> dgoulet: many of the fallback tickets are done, and regardless, they have their own component now
21:41:02 <dgoulet> teor: ok should I strike all the "Done" ?
21:41:17 <dgoulet> or you mean Done != Merged?
21:42:44 * nickm marks #20920 as green, since it's guardy and security-critical and needs_review
21:43:40 <nickm> likewise #20835, because it is gaurdy.
21:43:51 <nickm> so, here's a thought experiment!
21:44:08 <nickm> Let's imagine that everything currently unmarked were to become yellow or red.  Is there anything you would want to save or do?
21:44:42 * nickm marks the DNS tickets green
21:45:03 <nickm> rather, the DNS_TTL tickets
21:45:52 <asn> wrt thought experiment, most/all tickets i care about are green now
21:46:06 * nickm still looking at every unmarked ticket
21:47:33 <dgoulet> Yawning: you wrote the comment for #18295 ?
21:47:45 * dgoulet is fine with the Green
21:48:14 <nickm> mikeperry: What do you think of the importance of #20272, #20285, #20284, #8453 ?
21:50:01 <dgoulet> nickm: this is SponsorU so I guess we can defer? #18346
21:50:47 <dgoulet> also #18637 is nice to have but not sure 030 priority?
21:51:06 <nickm> agreed on yellowing both?
21:51:17 <nickm> or red, your opinion
21:51:24 <dgoulet> well I was proposing defering
21:51:35 <dgoulet> I'm in fascist mode for 030 :P
21:52:06 <dgoulet> there they are Red
21:52:24 <nickm> iko
21:52:26 <nickm> *ok
21:52:27 <asn> redding #19522. seems like luxury ticket and no developer.
21:52:51 <nickm> fails how?
21:52:57 <dgoulet> (#19552)
21:53:04 <asn> ehm sorry i meant #19552
21:53:05 <nickm> like, if it crashes or exposes people, it's not luxury
21:53:09 <nickm> otherwise, hey.
21:53:11 <nickm> oh.
21:53:19 <nickm> yeah, that one is ok to defer
21:53:54 <dgoulet> I'm for deferring #20188
21:54:16 <asn> lets doit
21:54:22 <nickm> go for it
21:54:29 * nickm afk 120 seconds
21:55:35 <dgoulet> so yeah we can go radical and Red all the remainings :O
21:55:37 <asn> we have some pastly bw weights tickets at #20284, #20285, #20307
21:55:42 <asn> let's yellow/red them?
21:56:15 <asn> i think they require both patch and mikeperry attention
21:56:26 <dgoulet> asn: red I say
21:56:40 <dgoulet> we can always bring back ticket later
21:56:57 <asn> ack
21:56:57 <dgoulet> I'm still unsure what "yellow" means anyway :P
21:57:33 <asn> "reexamine its redness"
21:57:43 <asn> still various open and unvoted fallback tickets
21:57:44 <dgoulet> "postpone decision to future us"
21:57:49 <dgoulet> yeah not sure how wise that is :P
21:57:53 <nickm> re
21:57:58 <asn> examples: #20880, #20881, #20882, #20877
21:57:59 <nickm> wow, I was wrong in my estimate
21:58:00 <dgoulet> asn: yeah teor seems to have dissapeared
21:58:10 <dgoulet> 16:41 < teor> dgoulet: many of the fallback tickets are done, and regardless, they have their own component now
21:58:16 <dgoulet> unless we can decrypt this ^ :)
21:58:50 <asn> #20881 is indeed in Core Tor/Fallback Scripts
21:59:01 <asn> and no longer assigned to 0.3.0
21:59:08 <dgoulet> #20107 is confusing...
21:59:17 <nickm> I agree.
21:59:23 <nickm> If there's something wrong we should fix it!
21:59:29 <nickm> but, um, well.
21:59:44 <dgoulet> let,s defer and if we ever get a response we can bring it back to 030 if needed
21:59:52 <nickm> ok
22:00:05 <nickm> how would we feel about doing that with _all_ needs_information tickets? :)
22:00:09 <asn> putting it needs_info
22:00:27 <dgoulet> well what remains could be deferred I believe
22:00:56 <dgoulet> I'm trying to grind more ticket for Green but not many remains
22:01:06 <nickm> Let's see then.
22:01:10 <teor> dgoulet: needs review is not done
22:01:22 <nickm> I'll make an awful proposal and people can tell me wha tthey think:
22:01:37 <nickm> 1. let's move everything red to 0.3.???.
22:01:45 <nickm> 2. Let's keep everything green.
22:02:02 <nickm> 3. For everything else, let's move it to 0.3.1 or 0.3.??? or 0.3.later or something
22:02:10 <nickm> end-of-awful-proposal
22:02:14 <nickm> somebody object!
22:02:22 <dgoulet> we have red ticket NOT for ??? :S
22:02:28 <dgoulet> #20700 comes to mind
22:02:39 <dgoulet> but for 031
22:02:41 <nickm> then move those to 031
22:02:44 <asn> sounds reasonable. maybe let's move everything non-green to 0.3.1 instead of 0.3.??
22:02:51 <asn> so that we are forced to retriage them next release?
22:02:57 <dgoulet> +1
22:03:05 <nickm> ok w me.  let's mark them with tags based on triage outcomes today though?
22:03:12 <nickm> eg "triaged-201612-yellow"
22:03:13 <asn> (unclear if forcing retriage of trash tickets is good or bad)
22:03:28 <nickm> asn: "Yes, it is good or bad!"
22:03:30 <nickm> ;)
22:03:48 <teor> I think we should put long-term tickets in 0.3.???
22:04:02 <teor> And keep only the ones we want to re-triage in 0.3.1
22:04:04 <nickm> I think we have no really great way of handling long-term things
22:04:18 <teor> (Sorry, DNS troubles. But not over Tor!)
22:04:52 <nickm> I would be happy to let whoever volunteers to move things based on this spreadsheet use their judgment and decide where to move them
22:05:29 <asn> #20931 still not green. IMO more important than DROPGUARDS. no?
22:05:32 <nickm> maybe we should average the priority columns and reconsider if the mean priority is under 6 for anything green, over 3 for anything red, etc?
22:05:47 <nickm> asn: sure, mark it green :/
22:06:02 <nickm> asn: I was hoping I wouldn't have to code that one.....
22:06:05 <asn> at least with GUARD events we know something that breaks. we dont know anything with DROPGUARDS
22:06:08 <asn> oh is it painful?
22:06:13 <nickm> just annoying
22:06:20 <nickm> it will either take an hour or a weekend
22:06:27 <nickm> and atagar won't like it. ;)
22:06:31 <asn> ok lets defer
22:06:44 <nickm> no, let's keep
22:06:51 <nickm> I have hours and weekends, and atagar is usually right
22:06:53 <dgoulet> greening this #20932 it's trivial and there
22:07:09 <nickm> do I hear a volunteer to migrate this stuff to trac?
22:07:25 <nickm> failing that, it's me.
22:07:26 <dgoulet> I can take the bullet this time but that will be tomorrow morning
22:07:28 <asn> nickm: ok let's green and perhaps reevaluate if it does not seem plausible in two weeks or so
22:07:35 <nickm> dgoulet: tomorrow morning is perfectly fine
22:07:40 <dgoulet> nickm: ack
22:07:47 <nickm> thanks dgoulet
22:08:07 <dgoulet> so green is 030, red is ??? and the rest is 031 ?
22:08:09 <dgoulet> yellow is ?
22:08:10 <nickm> please save a copy in case some fine person decides to replace the whole spreadsheet with "NOBODY CARE"
22:08:18 <nickm> green is 030
22:08:26 <nickm> everything else is 031 or ???, your choice.
22:08:44 <nickm> default as you think best
22:08:52 <dgoulet> roger
22:08:59 <nickm> Anybody who thinks this is bad should make up a better policy, or volunteer to be dgoulet ;)
22:09:04 <dgoulet> well how about we agree on ??? vs Unspecified now?
22:09:50 <dgoulet> I prefer "Unspecified" as 0.3.??? might change to 0.4.?? and so on overtime forcing us to change the tag
22:09:57 <dgoulet> so we can drop ???
22:10:28 <nickm> The reason I made 0.2.??? in the first place was because of the amount of things that we were deferring every time we released, but not putting in "unspecified"
22:11:29 <dgoulet> right but now we defer to next milestone some of it, some of it to the sinkhole of Trac (03.???)
22:11:37 <asn> guys gtg to another meeting. thx for this!
22:11:41 <nickm> peace asn
22:11:44 <asn> i also need to write another crowdfunding blog post later today!!
22:11:44 <dgoulet> just that we have two now and it's hella confusing
22:11:45 <nickm> thanks for helping!
22:11:49 <asn> see you tomorrow! thanks for meeting1
22:12:18 <nickm> dgoulet: I am sure open to different ways of doing stuff
22:12:19 <dgoulet> asn: o/
22:12:51 <dgoulet> nickm: we just use Unspecified for now? and remove ??? tag?
22:13:56 <nickm> hm. ok.
22:14:02 <nickm> I could move all the ??? stuff ot unspecified right now...
22:14:03 <nickm> *to
22:15:55 <dgoulet> yeah I saw we do it making one single place for the Trac void
22:16:47 <dgoulet> ok I've saved this document, we'll do such triage tomorrow
22:16:57 <dgoulet> so any change to it, I will ignore
22:17:17 <nickm> any objections to me moving ??? to unspecified and killing ??? ?
22:19:34 <nickm> doing it, reversibly.
22:19:47 <dgoulet> indeed we can always correct it if we are unhappy
22:20:35 <nickm> there, done
22:20:53 <dgoulet> \o/
22:23:06 <nickm> There are now 1217 tickets in Tor: unspecified, and may yog-sothoth have mercy on my soul
22:27:02 <nickm> armadev, weasel, GeKo: This is why I have a hard time putting out new releases for any series before Tor 028.
22:27:09 <nickm> That's the current state of each release branch.
22:27:15 <nickm> https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-bp-history <that
22:33:48 <dgoulet> ok I'm going afk for a food, bbl
22:33:49 <dgoulet> thanks
22:34:33 <nickm> ok, must make dinner
22:34:35 <nickm> peace for now
22:34:36 <nickm> thanks
22:34:41 <nickm> asn: #endmeeting?
22:34:43 <nickm> #endmeeting
22:34:49 <nickm> asn: you need to endmeeting
22:46:14 <teor> (or we need to trick the meetingbot)
22:48:25 <asn> #endmeeting