17:00:49 <nickm> #startmeeting
17:00:49 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Aug  8 17:00:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:49 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:52 <nickm> hello all!
17:01:21 <nickm> it's another week.  and since I was sick last week, it's my first tor dev / network team meeting of the month!
17:01:35 <nickm> as usual, checkins, then discussion. :)
17:01:55 <isis> nickm: glad you're feeling better!
17:01:59 <U039b_> hi
17:02:18 <nickm> I'm on vacation next week.  I'll be checking email approx every day or two, and maybe opening emacs if I get bored, but I won't do much more. :)
17:02:32 <nickm> I got stable out last week; aiming for 029-alpha today.
17:02:51 <nickm> I did a couple of branches that are infrastructure for other stuff we need to do; I hope I can do 15055 progress.
17:03:14 <nickm> #item later we need to talk about what tasks we want to seek 2017 funding for. (Isabela sent some folks an email)
17:03:29 <isis> #15055
17:03:55 <nickm> #item By the end of this meeting I want everybody (including me) to have a good set of august tasks tagged in trac.
17:04:18 <nickm> #item we should get asn's guard task breakdown turned into tickets!
17:04:34 <nickm> #item we should talk about isabela kicking stuff out of 028 to get it down to size.
17:04:43 <nickm> and finally ...
17:05:01 <nickm> #item I want to talk later about an idea I had to improve my ability to program, which has been somewhat limited recently.
17:05:07 <nickm> that's all for me!
17:05:08 <isabela> (029)
17:05:13 <nickm> yes, 029
17:05:16 <nickm> who's next?
17:05:48 * isabela can go
17:05:54 * athena can go next
17:06:13 <isabela> athena: go ahead! :)
17:07:41 <athena> status: concentration pretty blown this past week by last weekend's incident, unfortunately - still tying off #19552 plus doing revisions for #18640 and #8625
17:09:05 <nickm> #item we should talk about S vs U and picking tasks this month.
17:09:20 <nickm> athena: those both looked pretty close to done to me. what's your eta for the revisions?
17:09:54 <athena> #8625 is easy; #18640 wants a smarter heuristic
17:10:41 <nickm> I'm okay if we make it off-by-default by now, and have another ticket for doing the smarter heuristic
17:10:59 <athena> okay, i'd be happy with that too
17:11:22 <nickm> got time at the end of this meeting to pick out tickets for the rest of august?
17:11:27 <athena> sure
17:12:15 <nickm> great
17:12:35 <asn> hello. sorry for being late. was eating dinner.
17:12:43 <nickm> athena: if you want to start looking over the list of guard tasks that asn made, that might be a good place
17:12:46 <nickm> asn: hi hi
17:12:49 <nickm> who wants to go next?
17:12:50 <nickm> isabela: ?
17:12:56 <isabela> working on many deadlines, reports deadlines, proposals deadlines -- while trying to balance it with my personal deadlines to be moving this month
17:13:20 <asn> athena: nickm means this implementation plan: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2016-July/011234.html
17:13:21 <isabela> sent an email to collect ideas for things we can put on grant proposals
17:13:26 <isabela> hope everyone helps on that this week
17:13:38 <nickm> I added a bunch, but if it's only me, it will suck.
17:13:41 <isabela> and like nickm said, I plan on doing a big clean up on 029 too
17:13:50 <asn> isabela: i've been slowly working on the area of mobile improvements for the past 2 months. will respond to your email.
17:13:57 <isabela> will tag everything i move out so people can track and review it
17:14:07 <isabela> asn: cool!
17:14:08 <asn> isabela: (specifically  #16387 is the parent ticket)
17:14:27 <isabela> that's it for me for this week
17:14:43 <isabela> i am also living off very few things that are not in a box :D
17:14:45 <isabela> hehe
17:16:22 <nickm> ok, who's next?
17:16:35 <asn> During past week I worked on implementing ESTABLISH_INTRO for prop224. The
17:16:35 <asn> patch is getting there, but needs more time. I also reviewed the RSOS ticket
17:16:35 <asn> and #19024. I also did more work on #16387 and talked some more with people who
17:16:35 <asn> want to integrate Namecoin with Tor. On the topic of Namecoin, there are 3
17:16:35 <asn> greek university students that want to work on this. I tried to persuade them
17:16:37 <asn> to make an addon for Firefox to integrate namecoin, instead of hacking
17:16:40 <asn> little-t-tor (for deployability reasons). That's it for me.
17:16:43 <asn> i guess it was me!
17:18:52 <nickm> asn: I asked you a question in the backlog about whether the HT_ and HANDLE_ solution I was recommending made sense.  If not you should ask me questions later on. :)
17:18:54 * dgoulet can go next
17:18:57 <nickm> woo
17:19:04 <isis> during the past week, i did basic hardware stuff and setup for a bridgeauth server for #19690, wrote my reports for the past several months and for pets, and spent the remaining time working on my OTF deliverables on bridgedb
17:19:12 * dgoulet lets isis go
17:19:26 <isis> i'm done, sorry for interrupting
17:19:30 <isis> mad lag here
17:19:47 <dgoulet> Since my return from the SponsorR meeting in July last week, I've been working on #18571 and #19024. That last refactoring has been reviewed and I consider it "final" for now. It will be added to the main branch of #17238.
17:19:56 <dgoulet> As for #18571, it's done except a part for the cross certification for which I need #15055 stuff. I'm working on unit test and then will move the commits to the main #17238 branch. Last pieces will be #18572 which is also almost finished.
17:20:00 <dgoulet> With some luck, we have a final #17238 branch in needs review by Friday and thus a big piece of prop224.
17:20:05 <dgoulet> making progress!
17:20:06 <dgoulet> ---
17:20:27 <dgoulet> nickm: I'll need a bit more help for the cross certification but we can talk about that later
17:21:04 <asn> nickm: haven't had time to read your reply on #19043 yet. will do so later and let you know if i need help.
17:21:16 <nickm> ok
17:21:19 <asn> nickm: also noted the part about note_pk_op() being obsolete. will make ticket soon.
17:24:36 <nickm> ok
17:24:39 <nickm> Yawning: ping?
17:24:54 <nickm> also, anyone else with a status update?
17:26:53 <Sebastian> I helped arma track down an issue he had with libevent2
17:27:03 <Sebastian> it was related to static linking
17:27:19 <Sebastian> would appreciate a two-minute chat about where the bug is post-meeting
17:28:18 <nickm> ack
17:28:59 <nickm> hmnn.  I hope Yawning is around.
17:29:10 <nickm> But while we hang out, we can move to discussion time if there are no more updates?
17:29:48 <nickm> one thing for me: I've noticed that I have a hard time doing programming tasks that take a day or more, because of my distraction levels.
17:30:23 <nickm> I am thinking, starting maybe around september, of declaring that I have some fraction of "high-latency" days, where I don't check email or go on IRC more than twice.
17:30:32 <nickm> anybody got other ideas of how best to make this kind of thing work?
17:31:25 <asn> i feel that's alright, if you think it's going to help your workflow
17:31:40 <dgoulet> nickm: that sounds reasonable to me!
17:31:50 <isabela> +1
17:32:07 <asn> i mean, you can always try it sneakily and see how it goes...
17:32:10 <athena> that sounds entirely sane
17:32:48 <Sebastian> If I were you I wouldn't announce these days.
17:33:00 <nickm> I'm also going to try timetracking for the nxt few weeks, to see if my suspicion tha tI get interrupted once every 1.5 hours is in fact true. :)
17:33:11 <nickm> ok, next thing
17:33:21 * nickm tries to remember the next thing
17:33:28 <nickm> what's highest on your priorities for us to talk about, isabela ?
17:34:05 <isabela> i was reviewing your items
17:34:26 <isabela> i guess is the heads up about me clening 029
17:34:50 <isabela> like i said, i will remore things and mark them so people can review, my goal is to do it by wed eod
17:35:47 <nickm> this will involve marking some fun things as do-later.  We'll have to be mature. :)
17:35:59 <isabela> yes
17:36:16 <nickm> isabela: do you think it's okay if you link the what-do-we-seek-funding-for pad here?
17:36:23 <nickm> or should I refer people to the network-team mail you sent?
17:36:32 <isabela> good question
17:36:37 <isabela> i dont really know :)
17:36:46 <isabela> but the pad has more stuff on it !
17:36:49 <isabela> which is cool
17:37:18 <nickm> this is a big topic; everybody who works on tor should really have a look
17:37:44 <isabela> yes, this is the direction of our work in the next couple of years pretty much
17:37:51 <nickm> this is something good to do as a step back, and ask "so if we could get funded to do (nearly) anything on tor, what would it be best for us to work on?"
17:37:59 <nickm> so it's important to have good ideas
17:38:30 <isabela> does any one has questions or suggestions on this front?
17:38:57 <nickm> I think mikeperry had some good ideas, you should forward your email to him if he's not on the list
17:39:11 <dgoulet> I plan to respond to the email today with some ideas btw
17:39:22 <nickm> please use the pad? :)
17:39:32 <dgoulet> yesss sorry the pad :)
17:39:43 <nickm> yaaay
17:39:56 <nickm> maybe after the meeting a bunch of folks can all look at the pad and add stuff together?
17:39:58 <isabela> nickm: he is on the list but I will ping him just in case
17:40:10 <nickm> ok cool.
17:40:19 <nickm> so that's
17:40:30 <nickm> #action nickm and athena make sure they have august tasks figured out after the meeting.
17:40:46 <nickm> #action everybody looks at the stuff-to-seek-funding-for pad after the meeting
17:41:32 <nickm> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/query?status=!closed&keywords=~TorCoreTeam201608&group=owner  -- that's august by owner, btw.  I need to add more stuff for me... asn, dgoulet: you should put your august stuff there too!
17:41:36 <isis> is it a good idea to add funding for crypto improvements to the pad?
17:41:53 <nickm> isis: currently we're brainstorming I think, so yes
17:41:59 <dgoulet> nickm: ack
17:42:00 <nickm> I think I already put some of my favorites there
17:42:31 <isabela> isis: yes
17:43:26 <athena> which e-mail is this with the pad?
17:43:30 <isis> should i be marking the bridgedb tickets i'm working on as TorCoreTeam2016*?  i've avoided doing this so far, but perhaps it would make it more clear when i might have extra time to do little-t tor stuff.
17:43:38 <nickm> asn, athena: we should figure out how to turn your guard task breakdown into tickets, and what is the best set of guard stuff to do in the next couple of months?
17:43:45 <isis> athena: [network-team] [important] Collecting ideas we can propose for grants to core tor
17:44:44 <nickm> asn's email was here: http://archives.seul.org/tor/dev/Jul-2016/msg00066.html
17:45:15 <isabela> isis: yes please, this helps everyone knows what everyone is doing for the month
17:45:21 <athena> nickm: yeah, we should
17:47:27 <nickm> athena: any idea how we can go about that? I think we need to assign guards a pretty high priority
17:49:06 <asn> isabela: nickm: ack on the TorCoreTeam201608 triaging. will try to do asap. although i still feel that what we are trying to do with trac keywords in this case, is a bit like swatting flies with a sledgehammer...
17:50:19 <nickm> asn: I wonder if you're making it harder than you need to?
17:50:29 <nickm> the idea is to just take what you're going to work on for the rest of the month and mark it.
17:50:32 <GeKo> 10 minutes to tor browser meeting
17:50:51 <asn> and also need to remember to mark all the ephemeral tickets that are created _in_ the month.
17:50:59 <nickm> that's a separate thing from what i'm asking
17:51:04 <isabela> yes
17:51:12 <asn> hm ok
17:51:30 <isabela> if you are or will work on a ticket in august put the tag there
17:51:33 <isabela> that is all
17:51:33 <asn> ok i will do the july -> august migration then.
17:51:44 <asn> (and stop worrying about the keyword)
17:52:01 <nickm> with all this bookkeeping stuff there's an eternal risk of saying "this is too hard to do perfectly".  Just do the fast version IMO. :)
17:52:30 <isabela> is hard like any habit formation :)
17:52:52 <isabela> but this helps us know what ppl are doing, if they are overwhelmed, write reports to sponsors
17:53:11 <isabela> it helps coordinate things within the team and with stakeholders
17:53:25 <athena> nickm: the implementation plan linked seems reasonable; i'll ticketize the first few pieces of it, i suppose
17:54:13 <nickm> sounds good.
17:54:19 <asn> isabela: personally, i have not found it useful. there are no queries to get the interesting info i'm looking out of that keyword.
17:54:28 <asn> example of things i would like to know:
17:54:32 <nickm> anything more today or should we move on to the post-meeting thing?
17:54:37 <asn> "how many points are assigned to me this month?" -- no query to get this.
17:54:50 <asn> "what tasks did I do last month?" -- the keyword does not help with this either
17:55:07 <asn> (since that  requires markign ephemeral tickets as well, which _noone_ does)
17:55:22 <isabela> yes trac isnt the best tool
17:55:23 <asn> "what tasks does dgoulet have for this month?" -- the keyword does not help here either
17:55:31 <nickm> asn: I would love any help you can offer adding the appropriate "find things that aren't marked right" queries or advice or systems on the NetworkTeam wiki page?
17:55:32 <isabela> unfortunally you would have to add up the points yourself
17:55:47 <isabela> but if you do your name the month tag and check points to show up
17:55:49 <nickm> you could make a script. :)
17:55:49 <isabela> you would see them
17:56:22 <isabela> we can also have the query for the keyword on wiki page organized by person
17:56:24 <isabela> if its not yet
17:56:25 <nickm> I'd love to see these queries on the wiki page, and/or a list of the desired queries.
17:56:28 <nickm> we do.
17:56:35 <nickm> but it only works if people enter data
17:56:40 <isabela> but again
17:56:50 <isabela> if everyone isnt doing it the info wont be there
17:56:56 <isabela> it only makes sense if ppl are doing
17:57:19 <isabela> i know trac is painful, i have to deal with it everytime i want to know those things
17:57:57 <isabela> i specially try to know points people have assigned to themselves and other things that are painful to query
17:58:13 <asn> right...
17:58:19 <isabela> that is why most times i get a big csv file and do it on my own which isnt optimal either
17:59:01 <asn> anyway, some thinking and devops time needs to go here, if we are serious about this project management system.
17:59:07 <nickm> we're programmers; if we don't like something, we should automate.
17:59:15 <asn> i know i'm whining now, but actually i'm not the only doing it wrong, based on stats from previous months.
17:59:18 <asn> EOF.
17:59:29 <nickm> asn: I am indeed serious about having a system here.
17:59:46 <asn> i agree there needs to be a system for dev time management.
17:59:52 <isabela> asn: you are right, based on stats we are not doing it right
17:59:55 <nickm> now it's torbrowser time!
17:59:58 <nickm> #endmeeting