17:01:28 <nickm> #startmeeting weekly network team and tor-dev meeting
17:01:28 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jul 11 17:01:28 2016 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:28 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:44 <isis> hello
17:01:49 <nickm> isis: U039b: asn: hello, I've seen you around!
17:01:55 <nickm> dgoulet: I've heard you'll be travelling!
17:02:04 <nickm> yawning: I've heard that you're sick and possibly taking a break!
17:02:13 <nickm> athena: network team meeting!
17:02:18 <nickm> armadev: network team meeting!
17:02:22 <athena> hi meeting
17:02:27 <nickm> hi!
17:02:35 <nickm> we'll start with check-ins once again.
17:02:38 <nickm> I'll go first
17:02:55 <nickm> I have been distracted by administrative stuff.  I hope to pull out of that.
17:03:10 <nickm> the guard-selection discussion meeting last week went  well; I am revising my revised revised prop#259.
17:03:28 <nickm> I did some hacking that other people's code will need, which I hope we can actually use.
17:03:40 <nickm> This week I hope to hack the heck out of deliverables.
17:03:44 <nickm> next week I'll be at PETS
17:04:01 <nickm> the deliverables I aim to finish this week are revising my prop259 and doing some simulation on it...
17:04:13 <athena> ah, just waht we need, an angry PM bot
17:04:18 <nickm> doing #19470 ...
17:04:24 <nickm> athena: yeah, I'm doing /ignore on it.
17:04:25 <sharivabik> nickm: Stop spamming.
17:04:58 <isis> wtf is that thing
17:05:17 <isis> we have a PM bot ?!?!?!
17:05:24 <nickm> ... and maybe some tor-guts things
17:05:31 <nickm> isis: we have an unauthorized PM spambot
17:05:31 <helix> isabela is definitely human imo
17:05:36 <nickm> hi helix !
17:05:47 <helix> hi o/ (sorry to butt in!)
17:05:56 <isis> helix: o/
17:06:23 <nickm> I am hoping for review on #18902 ; we need to all remember to review needs_review tickets.
17:06:31 <nickm> If something isn't getting reviewed, please let me know.
17:06:46 <nickm> athena: also I added real monotonic timers in a branch currently in needs_revision.
17:06:49 <athena> i still have #18640 outstanding and waiting for someone to review it; working on #19333 next i think
17:06:54 <nickm> athena: you were interested in those I think
17:06:56 <athena> oh nice, finally
17:07:21 <nickm> #18908 is the ticket
17:08:08 <nickm> can anyone pick up doing review on #18640, or is that on me?
17:08:18 <nickm> (I can do it if needed.)
17:08:33 <nickm> #item for discussion later: how are we liking gitlab reviews?
17:08:52 <athena> i kinda like gitlab so far
17:08:57 <nickm> athena: did you have any thoughts on what parts of the guard work you'd like to pick up later this month? I know that we underscheduled you, on the premise that you'd be doing some of that.
17:09:20 <athena> hmm, what would be helpful to be doing?
17:09:44 <nickm> any items on https://pad.riseup.net/p/draft-guard-steps that seem doable?
17:09:58 <nickm> step 0 is for somebody to see what's already coded in the twstrike branch, and how reusable it is for our needs
17:10:08 <nickm> I don't think we should have one person to do all the guard stuff though
17:10:40 <nickm> asn had taken on "idrentify which parts can be used" but a second opinion sure wouldn't hurt
17:12:01 <athena> hmm, have we got the proposals solid enough to actually begin coding that stuff?
17:12:32 <nickm> I hope to have a more solid version today
17:12:38 <nickm> but I don't know if others will agree. :)
17:13:34 <nickm> athena: done with checkin?
17:13:35 <nickm> who's next?
17:13:40 <athena> yeah
17:15:28 <isis> i can go, but i don't have much to report
17:15:57 * isabela can go after isis
17:16:04 <isis> i was on vacation last week, before that i worked on my OTF deliverables for bridgedb, specifically #12030
17:16:30 <isis> and also the IPC stuff a bit, and this week i will continue to do the same
17:16:49 <isis> sorry for that, but i really should get my paid work done, esp. if i am going to PETS
17:17:14 <isis> as much as i would be more excited to do other things
17:17:21 <isis> EOF
17:17:34 * meejah wonders if "network team" includes controller libs and/or volunteers ;)
17:17:49 <nickm> yes
17:17:51 <isis> meejah: yes!
17:17:59 <nickm> well yeah!
17:18:32 <nickm> isis: please do not feel you ever need to apologize for doing any level of volunteer work.  This isn't supposed to be a cult. :)
17:18:33 <isabela> isis: hope you enjoyed diving
17:18:42 <nickm> isis: (are you going to PETS?)
17:19:17 <sabadook7> Weasel you bitch. Peace niggers.
17:20:19 <meejah> i keep missing these meetings, but txtorcon 1.x stuff should be available "soon"; this is a bunch of API cleanups, and a new "Tor" abstraction thanks to some discussion with brian warner
17:21:07 <meejah> once i think it's "done" I will put in PRs for any projects using the couple APIs I'm going to break before I 'really' release it
17:21:43 <meejah> i've also drastically cleanedup/re-written the docs and examples
17:22:57 <meejah> EOM
17:23:26 <isis> nickm: yes, i will be at PETS
17:23:48 <isis> isabela: yeah! sharks are awesome creatures
17:24:10 <isabela> i have been working a lot on many reports and proposals a lot of deadlines going on :(
17:24:30 <isabela> i am also trying to schedule another retrospective
17:24:39 <isabela> i will try the best to be on july 25 monday
17:24:47 <isabela> (not at the same time as this meeting tho)
17:25:05 * isis remembers that they should respond to the retrospective scheduling email
17:25:06 <isabela> but i will be looking for homes at that time
17:25:23 <joebloe> Why does one of the ops here support Isis?
17:25:51 <isabela> so my schedule for last week of july and first week of august is quite insane
17:26:08 <isabela> expect little alive presence over here
17:26:09 <isabela> :(
17:26:11 <isabela> done
17:26:12 <nickm> wow, somebody sure wants us not to have public meetings.
17:26:28 <isabela> nickm: looks like it
17:27:30 <nickm> anybody else with a check-in?
17:29:32 <nickm> okay, discussion time!
17:29:35 * isis responded
17:29:57 <nickm> I have a topic, which is code review check-ins.  And another topic, which is preparing for pets
17:30:47 <nickm> isabela: Could you send the list of items from our last retrospective meeting to the list as well, so we remember?
17:30:56 <nickm> what other topics do we have for today?
17:30:59 <isabela> yes
17:31:30 <nickm> isabela: thanks!
17:32:45 <nickm> ok, preparing for pets.  I would like us to think about what topics I should try to get researchers thinking about.
17:33:00 <nickm> I'd also like folks to look at the list of papers and think what questions/suggestions we have for the authors.
17:33:20 <nickm> this is a great resource we can totally use for good
17:34:39 <isabela> when is pets again? 21?
17:34:52 <nickm> July 19 – 22, 2016
17:34:58 <isabela> ok
17:35:15 <isis> i would like some attention paid to this idea of a pluggable hybrid handshake mechanism that the NTRU developers came up with, particularly to know if it is useful to other cryptographers who design PQ PKE/KEX/KEM systems
17:35:40 <isis> uh… i think that those emails were public… let me check
17:36:42 <nickm> isis: btw did you see the BoringSSL hybrid handshake?
17:36:47 <isis> nope, they weren't, oh well
17:36:58 <isis> anyway this part is https://github.com/jschanck-si/hybrid-doc https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/287
17:37:21 <isis> nickm: yes, i did! very exciting
17:37:40 <isis> i'm *slightly* dismayed that we weren't the first, but oh well :)
17:37:59 <athena> ooh, is this for doing something like comining NTRU with curve25519?
17:38:02 <nickm> well, we can be the first to have it on-by-default, maybe.
17:38:14 <Yawning> hi or something
17:38:27 <nickm> athena: yeah; the boringssl people are doing NTRU + curve25519, concatenating the outputs, and throwing them into the TLS KDF.
17:38:31 <nickm> Yawning: hi!
17:38:33 <isis> yeah, but so that you can (hopefully) replace either half of the handshake without having to respec everything
17:38:34 <nickm> how are you?
17:39:00 <nickm> https://security.googleblog.com/2016/07/experimenting-with-post-quantum.html
17:39:01 <isabela> Yawning: feeling better?
17:39:05 <Yawning> that's a question with a complicated answer
17:39:14 <isis> Yawning: !! \o/
17:39:15 <Yawning> it's newhope + x25519
17:39:19 <Yawning> just comcatenated
17:39:25 <nickm> err sorry, newhope.  not ntru
17:39:33 <Yawning> and their idea of newhope is fucked up and different from dr schwabe et als
17:40:01 <Yawning> it was non-interesting when they first threw it into their repo months ago
17:40:02 <Yawning> >.>
17:40:20 <nickm> code here: https://boringssl.googlesource.com/boringssl/+/95c69563dc5422c3b3cd3a0bf435944a7530a12d/ssl/ssl_ecdh.c#260
17:40:34 <isis> i am mostly excite that it is actually getting used
17:41:04 <isis> anyway, i will stop derailing the meeting, sorry
17:41:14 <nickm> Yawning: want to check in?
17:41:31 <Yawning> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-dev/2016-May/010967.html
17:41:39 <Yawning> I made fun of it, months ago
17:41:40 <Yawning> >.>
17:41:45 <Yawning> uh
17:41:52 <Yawning> did my evals to keep sponsors happy
17:42:08 <Yawning> probably going to take a vactaion till my sanity returns
17:42:13 <Yawning> dunno
17:42:22 <Yawning> talked with the lantern people a bit
17:42:29 <athena> nickm: neat, but it seems maybe *slightly* better to do it telescoping: after k out of n handshakes, the key to do round k+1 is the KDF of the first k
17:42:49 <nickm> athena: well, they are just doing TLS.
17:44:51 <nickm> Yawning: +1 for vacations; very much a supported operation
17:45:01 <isabela> :)
17:45:22 <Yawning> isabela: I'll get in the administrative paperwork for the quarter soon-ish
17:45:44 <Yawning> which is mostly remebering what the hell I did for each month
17:46:11 <isabela> Yawning: thanks! we do want your invoices asap :)
17:46:20 <isabela> Yawning: let me know if i can help in any way
17:46:34 <Yawning> (oh, on a side note the lanter people told me they are using obfs4 for a utterly rediculous amount of users and it's mostly working)
17:46:39 <Yawning> (*lantern)
17:47:09 <isis> cool
17:47:20 <Yawning> with one weird issue, I think I know what's wrong and pushed a commit that should make things better
17:49:18 <Yawning> is there anything that requires my immediate attention
17:49:33 <nickm> isabela: that's a question for you
17:50:08 <Yawning> (you'd figure if google wants to use special snowflake newhope, they'd use one of the improved noise sampling methods, but they didn't)
17:50:32 <nickm> Yawning: I think they think they are still doing newhope.
17:51:02 <nickm> I am about to create a review-group-5.  One moment....
17:51:33 <isabela> Yawning: only burocratic thing
17:51:51 <isabela> Yawning: sponsorT is all good, I already wrote the summary of your evals in the final report
17:51:54 <isabela> tx for that
17:52:36 <nickm> okay, review-group-5 is created.
17:52:56 <nickm> also please note that you may have tickets in needs_revision for 0.2.9
17:53:31 <isabela> we also should be tagging things with the juy tag
17:53:48 <nickm> among people here: isis, teor, mikeperry, athena ,and karsten have things so tagged.
17:53:49 <isabela> sorry for not being better on reminding about the monthly tags
17:54:26 <exterminatorofweasels1> Why continually bother people about tagging? Stop your nagging.
17:54:39 <nickm> reviewers will be needed for #18908, #18397, #18902, and #19435.
17:54:50 <exterminatorofweasels> Yeah stop your nagging girl.
17:55:03 <exterminatorofweasels3> Be quiet bot. Stop spamming.
17:55:15 <exterminatorofweasels4> Tired of spamming in this chat.
17:55:32 <exterminatorofweasels1> You all are annoying.
17:55:37 <nickm> any takers on those reviews?
17:55:44 <exterminatorofweasels> No takers whatsoever.
17:56:01 <exterminatorofweasels3> Kick the isis supporter out of here please.
17:56:13 <exterminatorofweasels4> And exterminate the weasel.
17:56:24 <nickm> anybody want to make me review any more of them? :)
17:57:28 <exterminatorofweasels1> One of you here is a weasel in the system.
17:57:31 <nickm> okay. I will continue to nag people about reviews offline.  any more topics for this meeting?
17:57:48 <athena> i'll take the #18908 review
17:57:54 <nickm> athena: cool!
17:58:05 <nickm> athena: I think at this point it just needs a few more tests.
17:58:21 <nickm> athena: added you as reviewer
17:58:26 <nickm> anything else before the TB people start?
17:59:00 <isabela> i am good
17:59:07 <isabela> i will email the resolutions from the last retrospective
17:59:59 <Yawning> oh yeah
17:59:59 <nickm> #endmeeting