13:30:31 <nickm> #startmeeting
13:30:31 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Nov 12 13:30:31 2014 UTC.  The chair is nickm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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13:31:03 <nickm> Greetings, Gentlebeings! I suspect you wonder why I have called you here together.
13:31:22 <Yawning> aloha
13:31:23 <asn> Free food and software?
13:31:26 <nickm> Before we begin today's meeting of the Legion of Anonymity, let us introduce ourselves!
13:31:46 <nickm> I see Yawning, asn, athena, and ln5.  Is anyone else with us today?
13:31:55 <athena> greetings, humans
13:31:58 <nickm> (This is a tor dev meeting.  I am just feeling silly.)
13:32:02 <asn> I am asn. With my team of builders, we build castles!
13:32:17 <Yawning> Hello my name is Yawning and I'm an alco^u
13:32:21 <Yawning> wrong meeting
13:32:57 <asn> dgoulet might also be here?
13:33:46 * ln5 is sadly not really here
13:34:21 <nickm> Let's begin.  Who wants to talk about hacking stuff:?
13:35:11 <asn> I can talk a bit.
13:35:13 <Yawning> my productivity hasn't been all that good as of late ;_;
13:35:18 <asn> ah go for it yaw`
13:35:19 <asn> ah go for it Yawning
13:35:30 <Yawning> there's a huge list of tickets at https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/SponsorS/PluggableTransports
13:35:34 <Yawning> that has a bunch of tor stuff
13:35:42 <Yawning> that willg et my attention
13:35:53 <Yawning> if there is stuff that needs priority (eg: 229), let me know
13:36:14 <Yawning> ok, other people cat go >.>
13:36:15 <Yawning> can
13:36:21 <Yawning> need to read more of this proposal
13:36:29 <asn> hello
13:36:41 <asn> the past days I've been busy with the recent HS attacks
13:36:54 <asn> i hepled write the blog post, and also have been doing work on guard discovery attacks, etc.
13:37:17 <asn> currently I'm fiixng up the guardfraction branches. they will be ready for review before the sun sets where I am.
13:37:32 <asn> i also did a small meeting tomorrow with dgoulet on the SponsorR project
13:37:45 <asn> I think we are supposed to meet more today, but I don't see dgoulet around yet which is alright.
13:37:52 <asn> We decided that for the next two months, as part of the SponsorR project
13:37:58 <asn> we are going to focus on the following things:
13:38:26 <asn> - Make a branch that adds statistics to Tor relays, that allows to better understand "Approximately how many HSes are there" / "Approximately how much HS traffic is there"
13:38:37 <asn> I'm saying *approximately* because my plan is to obfuscsate those stats
13:38:51 <asn> so that an attacker who wants to enumerate HSes cannot be precise on how many HSes he is missing.
13:39:03 <asn> i will prepare a proposal for this in the next weeks.
13:39:24 <asn> and if no one objects, the weeks after that I will hack on it, so that relays (HSDirs and RPs) add this info to their extra-info desc.
13:39:41 <asn> - Work on setting up HS privnets, that allow us to do benchmarks and measurements.
13:39:45 <nickm> plausible.
13:39:58 <nickm> I believe dgoulet and teor are making good progress on that front.
13:39:59 <asn> We hope that this will reveal various bugs and peculiarities in the way HS circuit establishment works.
13:40:03 <asn> yes
13:40:24 <nickm> eg, dgoulet has some profiling numbers on #8902, and teor is doing good stuff to make chutney and test nets work better
13:40:30 <asn> yep
13:40:55 <asn> and then I also plan to walk through the SponsorR tor-dev thread and find more tasks to be done
13:41:08 <asn> so that when Roger goes to that meeting on January he has a list of plausible tasks that we can do.
13:41:19 <asn> I'm also preparing a text for HS kickstarter.
13:41:25 <asn> the one htat karen asked.
13:41:58 <asn> after the recent HS attacks, I'm in a more researchy mood. so even though two weeks ago I would have suggested a code-hacking kickstarter, I think now we will also have to do some research.
13:42:18 <asn> on how we can change the HS protocol to defend against the major current attacks: coercion attacks, guard disciovery attacks, congestion attacks, etc.
13:42:24 <asn> but I still haven't written it all.
13:42:30 <asn> might finish it tomorrow we will see.
13:42:39 <asn> and that's my status report.
13:42:45 <nickm> Let's work on that together, and maybe broaden our discussion of what a KS should be for and what our longer-term strategy is too.
13:43:04 <asn> I also have a small question. if I have a chutney network, what should I add in the authority torrc so that it adds a consensus parameter?
13:43:12 <asn> nickm: absolutely.
13:43:12 <Yawning> asn: do youall need prop 229 done fast?
13:43:34 <Yawning> (if I left out pt stuff that people really wnat let me know)
13:43:39 <asn> Yawning: not super fast. but it seems useful.
13:43:52 <asn> Yawning: i would try to do it in the next 6 months?
13:43:53 <nickm> asn: I think there isn't an "Add an arbitrary consensus parameter" option.  Did we implement one?
13:43:57 * nickm looks at the code
13:43:59 <Yawning> asn: aight
13:44:17 <asn> nickm: how do dirauths do it currently?
13:44:18 <nickm> while I'm doing that, who wants to go next?
13:44:20 <asn> so, next one can go
13:44:50 <nickm> asn: Oh nevermind.  It's ConsensusParams.
13:44:56 <asn> cheers
13:45:21 <nickm> Yawning/ athena: who goes now?
13:45:27 <athena> hi
13:45:36 <nickm> hiya
13:46:00 <athena> i ended digging through the doxbin data and following up some other leads on trying to figure out what the hell happened with the HS attacks
13:46:15 <athena> then the other thing - my productive is pretty flattened so far this week :/
13:46:43 <athena> should get back to what i was doing before and write that libevent patch but at the moment i mostly want to resign from the human race...
13:47:15 <Yawning> I don't want to live on this planet anymore
13:47:17 <nickm> I find that writing patches I know how to write can be pretty therapeutic fwiw
13:47:28 <nickm> Yawning: I hear we can put landers on comets these days.
13:49:58 <nickm> athena: okay; I' mreally hoping to get the next libevent alpha out next week, since it's been stewing too long.  The patch itself on the libevent side shouldn't be too much,right?  Just rename a few functions and move them from one header to another?
13:50:32 <athena> nickm: yeah, i think so
13:51:30 <nickm> great
13:52:29 <athena> uh, should i treat the libevent git repo from sourceforge or github as canonical, to make sure i'm writing it against the most recent libevent?
13:52:37 <nickm> github
13:52:46 <nickm> but if there are conflicts, I'll resolve them
13:53:00 <athena> okay
13:53:18 <nickm> Yawning: anything else you're up to, or should I go?
13:53:25 <Yawning> uh go for it
13:53:55 <nickm> ok.  let's see...
13:54:52 <nickm> I lost a couple of days to stress and insanity.  But now I'm back on track.  Things I could do include more #12498; more ticket review; better triage and planning for 0.2.6; and putting out libevent releases.
13:55:09 <nickm> I'd like to imagine I can get all of those done in the next week, but I don't think that's realistic.
13:55:33 <nickm> Probably when we do the triage party (this time tomorrow, right?) we'll know what we need triage-and-planning-wise
13:55:38 <dgoulet> I'm here! so sorry, late morning :S
13:55:41 <Yawning> aight
13:55:45 <nickm> hi dgoulet!  not to worry
13:55:56 <nickm> I think I'm going to switch between the other things as I get stuck.
13:56:18 <nickm> #12498 got a little delayed because I realized I needed to rewrite the algorithm for how we decide which identities are in a consensus
13:56:30 <nickm> (and that's not 100% trivial)
13:56:45 <nickm> and that's it for me.  any questions for me, or should we hear from dgoulet ?
13:57:44 * dgoulet reading backlog
13:57:46 <Yawning> oh, is my assesment of #13733 correct?
13:57:51 <Yawning> (won't fix/notabug)
13:59:03 <nickm> I think you're right.  There could be a better failure mode for SIGHUP, but DisableDuggerAttachment has to be undisableable.
13:59:55 <Yawning> k' I'll update it
14:00:16 <nickm> If the documentation doesn't say "You can't turn this off", it should.
14:00:44 <Yawning> "Disabling this option while Tor is
14:00:45 <Yawning> running is prohibited."
14:01:05 <nickm> ok
14:02:19 * dgoulet can go next
14:02:59 <nickm> go for it
14:04:14 <dgoulet> yeah so with asn yesterday we build up this plan for HS measurement, my goal now is to build a privnet using chutney, three steps that we came up with (mostly asn :P):
14:04:18 <dgoulet> a) make it easier to setup a privnet to do HS experiments
14:04:18 <dgoulet> b) make it easier to collect measurements from a privnet
14:04:19 <dgoulet> c) make a list for measurements we are interested in
14:04:35 <dgoulet> so pretty sure this collides with SponsorS testing part
14:04:37 <Yawning> nickm: imma quote you
14:04:44 <nickm> Yawning: great, feelfree
14:05:27 <dgoulet> but that's fine I think, we set up a month in timeframe to come up with all this including nice measurements with graphs to have a clearer picture of the whole HS system
14:06:04 <dgoulet> so that's on my future work list, bug wise #13698 has a pending patch to be reviewed
14:06:39 <dgoulet> I've also run an experiment to collect perf data on a loaded HS, you can see https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/8902#comment:10
14:06:53 <dgoulet> with this beautiful pic that tells us basic info
14:06:54 <dgoulet> https://people.torproject.org/~dgoulet/tor-hs-perf-100-circ.png
14:07:38 <nickm> dgoulet: I'm confused that crypto doesn't even show up there
14:07:47 <dgoulet> nickm: first line
14:07:52 <nickm> ah
14:07:55 <nickm> interesting
14:07:59 <dgoulet> I just didn't break it
14:08:02 <dgoulet> collapse*
14:08:17 <nickm> maybe this is something else to make workers do
14:08:30 <nickm> (the introduction point crypto)
14:08:37 <nickm> This is at the HS or at the client?
14:08:41 <nickm> At the HS, right?
14:08:42 <Yawning> ooof that's a lot of curve25519
14:08:44 <dgoulet> HS side
14:09:12 <dgoulet> I can collapse the first one if you want more details, I'll upload that pic after my turn if you want
14:09:37 <Yawning> we don't use floodyberry's code right?
14:09:58 <nickm> right
14:10:22 <nickm> I had a branch for that, but said branch needs rethinking
14:10:37 <nickm> probably the smartest move here would be to move the crypto for this stuff into workers
14:10:42 <Yawning> yeah
14:10:56 <Yawning> which means we need to reveiw the worker code options we have right?
14:11:12 <dgoulet> hrm so yeah I need to chase a new bug I found on the client side while using hunderds of conn to an HS and I think that's about it for me (not going to repeat SponsorR stuff that asn described)
14:11:22 <nickm> right
14:11:33 <Yawning> (I should also get a vtune license)
14:11:39 <dgoulet> nickm: should we have a ticket for that "intro point crypto to worker" ?
14:11:41 <nickm> Yawning: yeah. mine, and towlenee's changes to it
14:11:54 <nickm> dgoulet: I think so, as well as "circuit building crypto to worker"
14:12:08 <nickm> and a ticket for "all of these functions that circuit_launch_by_extend_info calls need to be faster"
14:12:25 <Yawning> I prolly have the ticket/branches for that somewhere on my whiteboard of doom
14:12:40 <dgoulet> nickm: yeah I want to explore them more but in terms of priority, it might be second on my list though
14:12:59 <dgoulet> nickm: ah! and finally I want to review today #13339
14:13:02 * dgoulet ends
14:13:19 <nickm> dgoulet: sure, but for now, just open the tickets?
14:13:28 <nickm> Yawning: let me know if you need me to hunt them
14:13:29 <dgoulet> nickm: I'm currently doing that :)
14:13:37 <nickm> Okay, anything else for this week's meeting?
14:14:05 <nickm> IIUC, we've got a triage party this time tomorrow, and a let's-talk-management-and-reporting thing at some unknown time
14:14:08 <nickm> is that approx right?
14:14:27 <Yawning> should we gather around an altar and bring out a goat to pray for a less eventful next week without stuff blowing up?
14:14:41 <dgoulet> Yawning: don,t curse it! :P
14:14:43 <nickm> Does that help?
14:14:47 <dgoulet> nickm: "is that approx right?" ??
14:14:52 <dgoulet> not sure to understand that ^
14:15:01 <nickm> =="Is that approximately right?"
14:15:03 <Yawning> some people I know seem to think such things help
14:15:41 <dgoulet> nickm: yes should we talk about "management-and-reporting" after the meeting today or tomorrow ?
14:16:00 <nickm> let's try after the meeting today?  Maybe after a 15 minute break?
14:16:07 <dgoulet> works for me
14:16:09 <nickm> ok.
14:16:10 <nickm> #endmeeting