18:01:02 <paddatrapper_> #startmeeting
18:01:02 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Sep 16 18:01:02 2021 UTC.  The chair is paddatrapper_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:02 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:33 <paddatrapper_> agenda: https://deb.li/oNCD
18:01:42 <paddatrapper_> #topic Roll call
18:01:49 <paddatrapper_> Say hi if you're here for the meeting
18:01:51 <tumbleweed> Hi
18:02:57 <paddatrapper_> Shall we wait for some more people or dive in?
18:03:32 <tumbleweed> can do. Otherwise we can motor through the agenda, but it'll be hard to reach consensus
18:04:00 <paddatrapper_> yeah, and feedback around DC20 would be better with more people
18:04:57 <paddatrapper_> highvoltage, wouter, olasd: you around?
18:05:06 <nattie> (hi if you're here for the meeting)
18:05:12 <nattie> (but not really)
18:05:29 <highvoltage> hello I just arrived
18:06:13 <paddatrapper_> #topic DC21 post-mortem
18:07:03 <paddatrapper_> I guess what went right? what went wrong?
18:07:12 * pollo is lurking, but currently doing some other work-related stuff
18:07:25 <tumbleweed> a/v sync wasn't great
18:07:31 <tumbleweed> I think we should have had a policy of restarting voctomix daily
18:07:57 <highvoltage> not sure I have anything significant to add after our last DebConf meeting
18:08:14 <paddatrapper_> Any way of addressing the desync completely?
18:08:35 <tumbleweed> I wonder if we could detect it automatically
18:08:41 <tumbleweed> (in voctocore)
18:08:57 <tumbleweed> or in the ingests
18:09:22 <tumbleweed> voctomix2 (if that's still a thing?) is also a potential answer there
18:09:57 <tumbleweed> pre-review wasn't great. Probably because sreview wasn't ready to receive them until quite late
18:10:31 <tumbleweed> but also I think we probably should have trained the volunteers for that more, to get consistent review
18:10:50 <paddatrapper_> yeah, we need to do more review training
18:10:55 <paddatrapper_> both pre and post
18:11:09 <tumbleweed> during the event, we kept our heads above water, but we weren't as on top of upcoming talks as we should have been
18:11:35 <paddatrapper_> We definitely lacked volunteers, especially later in the conf
18:11:38 <tumbleweed> it would have been good to be prepared for 1 or 2 talks in advance, recruiting volunteers, finding pre-recorded videos, etc.
18:11:47 <tumbleweed> but yeah, just not enough volunteer force
18:11:58 <tumbleweed> maybe better tooling there could have helped, too
18:12:10 <tumbleweed> (e.g. feeding pre-recorded video state back to wafer)
18:12:56 <paddatrapper_> it would be nice to have 1 place to see the state of volunteer and source material for a talk
18:13:02 <tumbleweed> yeah
18:13:16 <tumbleweed> we could have done that
18:13:57 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: how painful was it to have 2 OBSs?
18:14:02 <paddatrapper_> I also want to clean up and ansible the sreview downloader for the pre-recorded talks. Made it pretty easy to get all the talks for the day in the room
18:14:09 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: it was... quite convoluted
18:14:37 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: it has a concept of profiles, but it seemed like it didn't quite apply to everything (like extensions)
18:14:39 <tumbleweed> the point of it was to be able to have each one monitor voctomix state for its room, but we never really used that
18:14:45 <tumbleweed> (IIRC)
18:15:23 <highvoltage> so, what happened was, if you would add more content to the first obs, and then close the first obs and then the second obs, the second obs would overwrite the config on exit with what it had
18:15:36 <tumbleweed> right
18:15:57 <highvoltage> so it took some keeping wits about me that I close OBS's in the right order when closing them, and add content to the right one
18:16:57 <highvoltage> which was also kind of tricky because you couldn't see the stream URI while the stream was running, and the second one often ended up being first in the window list which added to the confusion
18:17:37 <highvoltage> it was a bit messy but managable. at least OBS didn't really have much problems other than that with two instances streaming to different places
18:18:16 <olasd> sorry, was commuting
18:18:28 <tumbleweed> OBS still seems like the best tool for the job for fancy loops
18:19:07 <highvoltage> it's also getting better, the advanced-scene-switcher added some new features that I requested during DC20, which was really nice
18:19:17 <tumbleweed> cool
18:19:36 <highvoltage> and there are some other transition tools that I saw some ITPs for recently that will also fix a whole range of smaller issues
18:20:43 <paddatrapper_> Anything else?
18:21:03 <highvoltage> in terms of obs being best tool, there's probably ways we can make alternatives work
18:21:22 <highvoltage> like, we could probably do most of OBS's tasks in a web page with some javascript if neede
18:21:35 <tumbleweed> yeah
18:21:46 <tumbleweed> I could imagine something like that running on the voctomix machine in every room at a debconf
18:21:49 <highvoltage> I saw a nice tool from igalia too that could work (also with some significant elbow grease)
18:22:06 <olasd> I think we won't be getting much better at recruiting volunteers for online confs
18:22:28 <tumbleweed> yeah, we need a bigger audience to get more volunteers
18:22:38 <highvoltage> (hmm can't find the link for that now)
18:22:40 <tumbleweed> and constant adverts + daily training
18:23:02 <tumbleweed> we don't have the video-team t-shirt carrot
18:23:07 <tumbleweed> (although we could...)
18:24:17 <wouter> o/
18:24:25 <wouter> sorry, almost forgot about the meeting
18:24:51 <olasd> (my comment was more of the "online conference fatigue" department)
18:25:15 <tumbleweed> olasd: that too
18:26:09 <olasd> i.e. I'm not sure we'll get even core volunteers enthusiastic about a 7-day online event again any time soon
18:26:47 <tumbleweed> :P
18:27:05 <olasd> it kinda feels like it happened because "it had to", in a way
18:27:10 <tumbleweed> totally
18:27:31 <highvoltage> imho for next year it might be nice if it has a very different format if online
18:27:50 <wouter> olasd: yeah, agree with the "it had to" comment
18:28:07 <paddatrapper_> highvoltage: do you have some ideas for what different format?
18:28:46 <highvoltage> paddatrapper_: would take some brainstorming, one different idea was the fique em case use debian event that had one talk every evening for a whole month
18:29:17 <olasd> yeah, the "ceph month" format had a half-day block every week for a month
18:29:23 <highvoltage> paddatrapper_: but there's probably a whole range of things that could be done different
18:29:26 <wouter> highvoltage: that is definitely an interesting format, but has a downside of "make it take much longer"
18:29:41 <wouter> and the "every evening" bit is difficult for a world-wide event
18:29:45 <highvoltage> wouter: indeed, it's just one way things have been different in the past, it doesn't need to be a month long
18:30:02 <highvoltage> wouter: again, just an example of an online event that was different
18:30:33 <wouter> highvoltage: sure, I got that the first time :) just pointing out the obvious issues that we'd have with such an option, but not at all saying we should therefore rule it out or anything
18:31:22 <highvoltage> wouter: we don't /have/ to emulate an in-person DebConf format in an online event, there's probably a lot that could be done to deal with specific interests, specific languages, how we deal with different formats (like BoFs, talks, social chats, etc)
18:31:25 <olasd> anyway I don't have anything to add on the subject. Maybe an "infra teardown" subtopic would be in order?
18:31:52 <paddatrapper_> #topic DC21 post-mortem - Shut down remaining infra?
18:31:54 <wouter> highvoltage: oh, absolutely! I think trying to emulate an in-person debconf is a bad idea to begin with, actually
18:32:02 <highvoltage> wouter: yeah although I wasn't suggesting such an option either and I wouldn't either
18:32:37 <tumbleweed> so, what do we want to back up before shutting down infomaniak infra?
18:32:48 <wouter> raw recordings need to be copied to vittoria
18:32:51 <tumbleweed> we've still got voctomix, obs, grabbers, encoders, prometheus
18:33:06 <paddatrapper_> #info raw recordings need to be copied to vittoria
18:33:07 <wouter> we haven't done that yet, I'll look at it tonight
18:33:08 <tumbleweed> we need to archive the pad contents
18:33:14 <tumbleweed> (that's on a grabber)
18:33:27 <wouter> #action wouter to copy raw recordings to vittoria
18:33:29 <paddatrapper_> #info we need to archive the pads content
18:33:35 <wouter> (so I don't forget ;-) )
18:33:40 <tumbleweed> I'll shut down and shelve the voctomixes
18:33:49 <tumbleweed> we only need them if we loose the raw video on encoder1
18:33:54 <paddatrapper_> #action tumbleweed to shutdown and shelve the voctomixes
18:34:02 <tumbleweed> I'll also shutdown encoder2
18:34:09 <tumbleweed> highvoltage: and obs?
18:34:15 <wouter> yeah, we can lose that one, as long as you don't touch encoder1
18:34:19 <paddatrapper_> #undo
18:34:19 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x15eff50>
18:34:43 <highvoltage> tumbleweed: it can just be destroyed
18:34:50 <tumbleweed> OK
18:34:59 <paddatrapper_> #action tumbleweed to shutdown and shelve the voctomixes, encorder2, obs2 (just destroy)
18:35:18 <highvoltage> I have a local backup of it, but there's likely nothing useful in there anyway
18:35:48 <tumbleweed> I guess grabber1 can go down too
18:35:51 <tumbleweed> pad is on grabber2
18:36:32 <tumbleweed> do we want anything from the prometheus node?
18:36:47 <olasd> exporting metrics looks like a large PITA
18:36:48 <paddatrapper_> The final machine sizes?
18:37:05 <tumbleweed> paddatrapper_: those are captured on a ticket
18:37:07 <wouter> I'd say take a few screenshots of the CPU usage during the conf
18:37:16 <wouter> so we can decide how to scale for next year
18:37:24 <paddatrapper_> tumbleweed: cool. We didn't bump up the size of any of them?
18:37:25 <wouter> but beyond that, I don't think we need to keep much?
18:37:48 <tumbleweed> https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc21-online/-/issues/1#note_256494
18:37:55 <tumbleweed> paddatrapper_: captured at the end of the event
18:38:00 <paddatrapper_> great
18:38:17 <paddatrapper_> #info our final stack: https://salsa.debian.org/debconf-team/public/data/dc21-online/-/issues/1#note_256494
18:39:51 <paddatrapper_> anything else we need to shutdown/clean up?
18:40:35 <tumbleweed> think that's it
18:41:01 <paddatrapper_> #topic Upgrade Hetzner infra to bullseye
18:41:09 <tumbleweed> shall we JFDI?
18:41:21 <tumbleweed> I guess the etherpad will have to be done manually for the moment
18:41:28 <wouter> I think so?
18:41:30 <olasd> sure
18:41:34 <wouter> we know it works :)
18:41:35 <paddatrapper_> it potentially can be used to fix the ansible role
18:41:40 <tumbleweed> yeah
18:41:48 <tumbleweed> although it's been 3 months and we haven't fixed the ansible role
18:41:59 <tumbleweed> I think we're just hoping that the next release of etherpad works better :P
18:42:05 <tumbleweed> (or we switch to hackmd / something)
18:42:14 <highvoltage> I've probably done over a 100 different bullseye upgrades and it's probably been one of the most uneventful debian upgrades so far. so +1 for jfdi and if something doesn't work out, at least there's no conferences running right now
18:42:24 <wouter> well there's also the vagrant thing that should help develop the ansible role
18:42:39 <wouter> highvoltage: +1
18:42:59 <paddatrapper_> any volunteers?
18:43:12 <tumbleweed> I may look at it in the next few days
18:43:16 <tumbleweed> (rain expected here)
18:43:36 <paddatrapper_> #action tumbleweed to try get Hetzner infra upgraded to Bullseye
18:43:53 <paddatrapper_> #topic MiniDebConf Regensburg - Hardware purchases
18:44:24 <olasd> The budget for the long awaited purchases has been approved. Most of them are incoming
18:44:48 <olasd> for instance, UPS is sending me 75 kg of gear from Thomann
18:45:08 <paddatrapper_> #info the budget for the hardware purchases has been approved and things are on their way to olasd
18:45:18 <wouter> 75kg is... significant :)
18:45:42 <highvoltage> yeah ouch!
18:46:00 <tumbleweed> olasd: you building your own cases?
18:46:09 <olasd> tumbleweed: yeah
18:46:17 <tumbleweed> we look forward to pictures :)
18:46:30 <olasd> it'll be a busy week :P
18:47:12 <paddatrapper_> #topic MiniDebConf Regensburg - Who's there?
18:47:25 <olasd> AFAIK it's tobi and me
18:47:28 <wouter> I think it will be complicated for anyone from .za
18:48:46 * olasd looks at the registration page: wow, 50 people are registered
18:49:00 <paddatrapper_> #info olasd and tobi will be there
18:49:07 <wouter> (Belgian consulate told me that I'm not allowed in without a European vaccination passport, which is impossible to get in .za, even if I am fully vaccinated)
18:50:11 <paddatrapper_> #topic Any other business
18:50:48 <wouter> Just an FYI that I'm refactoring the ffmpeg commandline generation part of SReview into a separate library
18:51:06 <wouter> (which it almost is, currently, just a few places where the integration is too close)
18:51:06 <paddatrapper_> #info wouter is refactoring the ffmpeg commandline generation part of SReview into a separate library
18:51:26 <wouter> should make it easier to handle video outside of SReview for future endeavors
18:51:38 <wouter> e.g., the audio normalization that highvoltage wanted to do
18:51:39 <tumbleweed> olasd: I assume you'll need sreview for Regensburg?
18:51:55 <highvoltage> that would be so nice
18:51:56 <olasd> tumbleweed: if there's talks, yes, that's plausible
18:52:18 <wouter> olasd: if there's a schedule, preferably in some pentabarf XML-like format, I can add it to SReview
18:52:35 <olasd> wouter: I haven't seen a schedule yet. I assume it'll be a table on the wiki
18:52:36 <wouter> olasd: (if it's not pentabarf XML I'll have to bang it into the db manually, which is doable but not great)
18:53:14 <olasd> I'll let you know / have tobi let you know once there's a schedule
18:53:24 <wouter> wfm
18:53:44 <paddatrapper_> #topic Next Meeting
18:53:46 <wouter> brownie points if it's easily parseable, but meh if not
18:53:59 <wouter> I think we can reduce the frequency somewhat now,
18:54:03 <wouter> s/,/?/
18:54:03 <paddatrapper_> Back to monthly?
18:54:23 <wouter> sure?
18:54:33 <wouter> when is the regensburg miniconf though?
18:54:45 <tumbleweed> monthly wfm
18:55:11 <olasd> two weeks from now (29.09 - 03.10)
18:55:19 <wouter> early next month apparently
18:55:28 <wouter> I don't think we need another meeting before then, do we?
18:55:49 <olasd> no
18:55:52 <highvoltage> tobi is very quiet.
18:55:58 <wouter> monthly wfm then, too
18:56:19 <paddatrapper_> Back to every 3rd Thursday? (I think that what it was)
18:56:35 <tobi> someone said my name...
18:56:51 <tobi> I was busy spending Sponsor money :)
18:57:01 <highvoltage> I was checking if something bad would happen if I say it three times in a row
18:57:16 <paddatrapper_> 21 October 2021 @ 18:00 UTC?
18:57:24 <olasd> sgrm
18:57:26 <olasd> sgtm*
18:57:31 <highvoltage> paddatrapper_: +1 and thanks for keeping the wheels turning
18:57:52 <paddatrapper_> #agreed 21 October 2021 @ 18:00 UTC?
18:57:58 <paddatrapper_> highvoltage: heh, no worries
18:58:00 <tumbleweed> +1
18:58:01 <wouter> without question mark I think ;-P
18:58:03 <paddatrapper_> #undo
18:58:03 <MeetBot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x1880b90>
18:58:12 <paddatrapper_> #agreed 21 October 2021 @ 18:00 UTC
18:58:15 <wouter> lol
18:58:16 <paddatrapper_> #endmeeting