19:01:51 <tzafrir> #startmeeting
19:01:51 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Dec  9 19:01:51 2019 UTC.  The chair is tzafrir. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:51 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:00 <tzafrir> #topic Roll call
19:02:05 <tzafrir> hi
19:02:17 <DLange> Say hello if you are here for the meeting :D
19:02:20 <anisa> Hello
19:02:23 <shachar> hello
19:02:34 <talatb> Hi
19:02:52 <talatb> Hello **
19:03:01 <bremner> hello if you are here for the meeting
19:03:18 <DLange> bremner, thank you, you made my day!
19:03:47 <tumbleweed> o/
19:03:58 <urbec> morning
19:04:07 <shachar> evening
19:04:49 <chiamaka> hello
19:06:28 <tzafrir> Anyone else?
19:06:46 <tzafrir> Or shall we move to the next item?
19:06:54 <DLange> just sent Katrina and George an email
19:07:07 <DLange> but continue with the agenda please
19:07:18 <tzafrir> #topic Last Meeting's actions
19:07:51 <tzafrir> VAT: Kaplan is not here and we did not discuss this issue among us,
19:08:18 <shachar> I can give my knowledge from having worked as a freelance
19:08:25 <tzafrir> But shachar commented in the channel that it's probably not worth persuing, right?
19:08:32 <shachar> right
19:08:55 <shachar> there are a few corner cases where doing some roundabout tricks might save a few sheqels
19:09:19 <shachar> but doing it in a way that is legal is difficult, and it won't save a lot of money anyways
19:09:23 <DLange> clarify this with Kaplan and tell us next meeting?
19:09:32 <shachar> sure
19:09:45 <DLange> not really worth discussing that with 90% people not knowing about the Israeli tax system
19:10:07 <tzafrir> #action shachar will clarify VAT issues with kaplan for the next meeting
19:10:07 <shachar> in a nutshell - local transactions carried out in Israel need to pay VAT
19:10:25 <DLange> we shall import food then :)
19:10:26 <shachar> so venue, rent, lodging etc
19:10:39 <shachar> right
19:11:07 <shachar> Israeli for-profits are exempt, but getting them to buy stuff for the conference is awkward, and may not be legal
19:11:32 <shachar> I don't think we have a lot of funds coming from commercial Israeli entities, so it won't matter much anyways
19:11:37 <shachar> everyone else just have to pay
19:11:42 <DLange> we are more interested in using local NPFs and if that does help the tax burden
19:11:58 * nattiemh[m] waves belatedly and is at least sort of here
19:11:59 * tumbleweed has not done his action items around data
19:12:01 <DLange> but as we said above, clarify between meetings then report back
19:12:27 <tzafrir> So, previous year's data:
19:12:28 <shachar> NPF?
19:12:39 <tzafrir> Non Profit ???
19:12:44 <anisa> Non for profit
19:13:03 <tzafrir> (in RPN?)
19:13:04 <shachar> right. They have to pay vat like everyone else
19:13:16 <tzafrir> Anyway, previous year's data:
19:13:16 <DLange> typos happen
19:14:19 <tzafrir> It seems that there may be some privacy issues with exposing the data from previous years.
19:14:56 <gwolf> Hey, wasn't it announced we should be ~15min into the meeting by now? :-$
19:15:27 <tzafrir> Anyway, I need (or: could use) a partial list of countries of participants for the visa information.
19:15:51 <tzafrir> If it's not there: no real problem.
19:16:18 <tzafrir> Next?
19:16:55 <DLange> yup
19:16:57 <tzafrir> Gorge and Tamir: date for commitment from the dorms:
19:17:06 <tzafrir> (sp)
19:17:36 <tzafrir> Neither are here. I guess no progress so far.
19:17:37 <gwolf> tzafrir: We had agreed you would get an aggregated list of countries with >n participants, didn't we?
19:18:24 <tzafrir> Except that that list is less interesting, because countries with more than, say, 5, participants normally have no visa issues.
19:18:43 <gwolf> Right :-|
19:18:53 <tzafrir> The problem is with some of the countries in the longer tail.
19:18:54 <gwolf> tzafrir: Doesn't India qualify as "interesting" wrt Israel?
19:19:14 <DLange> you can have a list of all countries, just without counts
19:19:19 <gwolf> tzafrir: I think you will have to deal with people on individual basis...
19:19:21 <tumbleweed> I suspect you want the opposite: given this list of problematic-for-israel countries, how many DC attendees have they been seeing?
19:19:32 <tzafrir> I think this may be the sole exception so far (surprisingly not even China had >= 5, IIRC)
19:20:05 <utkarsh2102[m]> gwolf: I guess India does.
19:20:17 <utkarsh2102[m]> & hi all o/
19:20:55 <gwolf> tzafrir: well, it did in Taiwan. I guess many Chinese Debian people decided not to go to Brazil as they had just attended DebConf..?
19:21:06 <tzafrir> See what we have in the wiki: https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/20
19:21:33 <tzafrir> It's that list, basically
19:21:34 <gwolf> tzafrir: Best case, we won't have to process visa issues at all \o/
19:21:44 <gwolf> FWIW Israel is not a visa-hard country for most of the world
19:21:50 <shachar> gwolf, actually that's not the best case at all
19:22:01 <gwolf> (but I understand the hardship curve goes quite steep when it appears)
19:22:09 <shachar> it means that noone decided to come from a country where Visa is an issue
19:22:16 <gwolf> schultmc:I understand, of course
19:22:23 <tzafrir> Anything to add at this point?
19:22:47 <gwolf> ...But anyway - If we cannot give a list of countries to prepare for... We will have to deal with whatever attendees require case-by-case
19:22:53 <gwolf> which is normal anway...
19:23:20 <shachar> we can talk to the guys who organized the MediaWiki conference a few years ago
19:23:33 <shachar> I'm guessing they had pretty much the same challenges
19:24:03 <gwolf> ...Opening registration early(ish) is often a priority for this
19:25:03 <gwolf> I see debconf20.debconf.org already hosts a mostly empty Wafer. I guess it won't be needed to start pestering tumbleweed (-:
19:25:35 <tumbleweed> well, if there are changes to make to registration, we should be talking about them
19:25:56 <tumbleweed> if there's particular information you're going to need to collect
19:26:48 <tzafrir> So, moving on?
19:27:03 <DLange> yes please
19:27:39 <tzafrir> #action Tzafrirto check with George and Tamir: date for commitment from the dorms
19:28:36 <tzafrir> #topic Logo decision
19:28:42 <DLange> #link https://wiki.debian.org/DebConf/20/Artwork/LogoProposals/
19:29:35 <gwolf> [ time for me to pick up my kids - have a nice rest-of-meeting ☺ ]
19:30:03 <DLange> o/ gwolf
19:31:01 <tzafrir> Any preferences?
19:31:47 <DLange> did the local team discuss this?
19:31:58 <tzafrir> (I'll also note that Lior asked for some extra time to get some more people in. Because I didn't realy publish that call well)
19:32:12 <DLange> how much more time?
19:34:43 <tzafrir> Let's look at it the other way: what else do we need?
19:34:59 <tzafrir> Where is the logo and the design blocking us specifically?
19:35:12 <DLange> Flyer and brochure, web site
19:36:03 <tzafrir> Web site needs more content for it to be ready for registration (which is also a separate task)
19:37:29 <DLange> yes, but we put sponsors on there now and they should have a designed context as soon as possible
19:38:02 <shachar> can we postpone this until next meeting?
19:38:06 <terceiro> I understand that picking a logo is hard, but we should Just Do It (TM) sooner rather than later
19:38:53 <tzafrir> Talking with Lior
19:39:04 <terceiro> last meeting we agreed that the deadline  would be today
19:39:12 <tzafrir> He would love to have one month. If not: two weeks
19:39:36 <DLange> I'd be more for one week.
19:39:39 <tzafrir> (Also asks for feedback about the current flyer, but that's off-topic)
19:39:39 <terceiro> note that "when it's ready" doesn't really work in this case :)
19:40:25 <tzafrir> Lior is for: "have it ready for the next meeting
19:40:41 <DLange> well, is that a commitment of his? Then fine for me.
19:40:55 <DLange> just not like this meeting, again :)
19:41:37 <tzafrir> #action kaplan provide a logo by the next meeting
19:42:03 <anisa> BTW the flyer is ready, we are just waiting for the logo
19:42:17 <DLange> tzafrir++
19:42:59 <tzafrir> What content is missing in the web site?
19:43:36 <anisa> https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebConf/WebTeam/AnnualWebsiteChecklist
19:43:37 <tzafrir> Basically the FIXMEs?
19:43:40 <terceiro> several pages are still stubs
19:43:54 <DLange> anisa did a list, see above
19:44:01 <tzafrir> Great
19:44:26 <DLange> you can see in the git which ones were done by anisa, chiamaka or other folks
19:44:33 <DLange> most are still missing :D
19:45:09 <DLange> (which is o.k. for content team stuff but not o.k. for -say- visa information)
19:46:13 <chiamaka> I'll implement feedbacks for the visa page tomorrow
19:46:34 <DLange> great, thanks
19:49:12 <tzafrir> Yeah, actually there was also a task of creating a budget, I think
19:49:30 <tzafrir> So now it's a valid ledger file
19:49:41 <tzafrir> (Still not very accurate)
19:49:56 <tzafrir> #topic AoB
19:50:27 <tzafrir> Anybody?
19:50:34 <DLange> apparently none
19:50:35 <DLange> next meeting, 23.12.19 19:00 UTC again?
19:50:41 <chiamaka> i think partnering with local tech communities in Israel
19:51:15 <chiamaka> and having them take care of purchases
19:51:36 <chiamaka> could go a long way in cutting down the VAT
19:52:07 <DLange> that was the discussion about using a local legal entity in a top before. Please engagage with Lior Kaplan (not here) and shachar if you can help with that topic.
19:52:35 <shachar> I think Hamakor is the one most fitting for this
19:52:41 <shachar> it's right up their charter
19:52:54 <tzafrir> (Hamakor is a non-profit)
19:52:56 <shachar> I'm not as connected as I used to be, but I can try and help
19:53:13 <tzafrir> Anything else for the record?
19:53:24 <DLange> awesome, please call for a meeting on this topic before the next team meeting and then report back what you could come up with
19:53:38 <shachar> Right, sorry. It's an NGO founded for the explicit purpose of promoting FOSS, specifically where a formal body able to issue invoices is needed
19:53:51 <shachar> it was *literally* founded for the purpose of helping us out here
19:54:05 <shachar> (I should know, I'm one of the founders)
19:54:10 <DLange> sounds like a great lead for us there :)
19:54:16 <DLange> <DLange> next meeting, 23.12.19 19:00 UTC again?
19:54:29 <tzafrir> Yup
19:54:46 <tzafrir> #endmeeting