17:01:27 <moray> #startmeeting Bid status meeting https://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Bid_process#Bid_status_meeting
17:01:27 <MeetBot> Meeting started Fri Mar 22 17:01:27 2013 UTC.  The chair is moray. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:27 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:28 * gwolf sits back and waits for moray to #startmeeting
17:01:42 <moray> #topic Introductions from teams and their members
17:01:54 <moray> so who's here from the bids?
17:02:08 <harmoney> I'm here with the Portland bid
17:02:25 <moray> maybe people can say a sentence about themselves/their involvement, rather than just "I'm here" :)
17:02:51 <Noodles> I'm here with the Portland bid, DD, been partly involved in DC before with room allocation stuff.
17:03:02 <vorlon> I'm here, Steve Langasek, DD and Portland resident
17:03:03 <gturner> I'm Gerald Turner, in Portland, not a DD, I'm an outsider volunteer
17:03:16 <Noodles> I'm in San Francisco rather than Portland.
17:03:21 * ultrt is here
17:03:37 <harmoney> Patty Langasek, DD Management (well, ok, going to be a member eventually), have attended and volunteered and multiple DebConfs previous.
17:03:38 <vorlon> Bart_Massey: welcome, we're doing introductions - your turn :)
17:04:12 <ultrt> I'm Guido Trotter, member of the committee
17:04:44 * h01ger is being distracted by his 83y aunt but tries to follow (both her and the meeting - dont see her much...)
17:04:45 <Bart_Massey> Hi! Bart Massey, PSU Prof and hosting guy thingie
17:04:58 <wendar> Allison Randal, DM
17:05:02 <gwolf> ultrt: But you are not part of the bids, right? :) Lets allow them ot self-introduce
17:05:45 <ana> moray: next point?
17:06:27 <moray> yup, looks like that's everyone introduced
17:06:34 <gwolf> well, we will have to skip the introduction for the Venezuelans...
17:06:41 <moray> thank you all for coming today, and thank you a lot more for your work on the bid
17:07:31 <moray> I know this always takes a lot of work, including lots of time spent on some small details, and time looking at venue options that don't go into the final bid, etc.
17:07:48 <moray> I'm very grateful we still have people willing to put in the work
17:07:56 <moray> #topic Questions from teams about the process, and about what others suggest they try to do on any uncertain aspects or potential problems
17:08:14 <moray> ok, so how do you all feel about your bid currently?  (no need for everyone to answer individually)
17:08:33 <moray> is there anything you want help with / suggestions for / comments on?
17:08:48 <vorlon> I think the feedback on the mailing list has been good
17:09:21 <vorlon> the #1 concern is making sure we get a venue decision ASAP so we can move ahead with planning, reserving the space, etc.
17:09:39 <vorlon> and as mentioned on the list, that's not critical but "the sooner the better"
17:09:42 <moray> sure.
17:09:48 <gwolf> same here - I expected more questions to come up, but I cannot say there was too little...
17:10:20 <moray> vorlon: and you feel that your bid is ready for a decision meeting as soon as we can arrange a convenient time for everyone again?
17:10:46 <vorlon> moray: yes, but if someone on the committee feels otherwise, let them disabuse me of that notion now :)
17:10:59 <moray> sure, they'll have a chance in a moment :)
17:11:36 <moray> just to be pedantic, officially the committee only decide if we don't get consensus before they need to vote -- it's not only the committee you should be trying to convince
17:11:55 <moray> (though I think nowadays we would probably run a vote anyway for clarity)
17:12:02 * h01ger nods morays pedantic comment very much. the comittee is there to break ties
17:12:07 <vorlon> ah
17:12:47 <moray> so no point bribing only committee members!
17:13:01 <vorlon> moray: give me back half of that sandwich, I need to spread it around more
17:13:10 <moray> ha
17:13:20 <bdale> mmm .. lunch
17:13:30 <gwolf> heh :)
17:13:46 * bdale notes it'd take more than a sandwich to sway him...
17:14:08 <h01ger> the ondine and the broadway are campus facilities?
17:14:21 <ultrt> right, at least two sandwiches for bdale, as he's very tall
17:14:28 <vorlon> h01ger: yes
17:14:31 <moray> vorlon: and since it's related to this point, when would you like to have the decision meeting?  we should really give a few more days for answers I assume.  but for your bid team, do you think that next week would be better or worse than the following one, e.g.?
17:14:49 <vorlon> h01ger: residence halls that are part of PSU
17:15:00 <vorlon> moray: I think we would prefer one week
17:15:03 <gwolf> moray: I am not sure again if we need to have a second meeting... specially if one of the teams is a no-show
17:15:06 <gwolf> but anyway...
17:15:09 <moray> #topic Questions to teams, if there are still unanswered issues
17:15:17 <moray> we seem to have started this, so changing topic
17:15:31 * h01ger nods gwolf
17:15:34 <marga> vorlon, from the wiki, I'm a bit concerned that there's a lack of info regarding the rooms of the Ondine and the Broadway
17:15:39 <ana> I personally have not question, everything I asked was addressed on-list
17:15:39 <moray> gwolf: in my opinion, even if we only had one bid, we should hold the second meeting to examine and approve it
17:15:42 <ultrt> venezuelan team: where are you?
17:15:51 <h01ger> (as sad and unfortunate this timing is (with chavez dead etc..)
17:15:53 <moray> gwolf: though I would expect it to be a bit shorter that way
17:16:02 <vorlon> gwolf: well, for my part I would prefer to see an explicit confirmation that we want Portland, not just that it's the only option left standing; whether that involves a second meeting or not doesn't matter to me
17:16:05 <moray> gwolf: i.e. still go throught he checklist
17:16:12 <moray> (through the)
17:16:23 <vorlon> marga: ok, what kind of information would you like?
17:16:51 <marga> vorlon, well, saying that they are basic campus rooms, shared bathrooms, etc?
17:17:02 <h01ger> reading the portland bid page (and only that, havent had time for the list in the last 10 days) it says that network+wireless is available at PSU, which seems logical to me. but the question i have is: can we change that / set up our own (_if_ we dont like theirs)
17:17:05 <gwolf> h01ger: It is sad and unfortunate, yes, but I don't think the whole process for them should halt because of (unexpected, yes) circumstances so far above the life of general people
17:17:09 <marga> Are they like Columbia rooms? Are they better or worse?
17:17:22 <h01ger> vorlon, i do think the portland bid looks very good
17:17:30 <gwolf> anyway... I am siomewhat disappointed, because yesterday they confirmed me they were on for this.
17:17:38 <h01ger> (so its not just because its the only bid "we have")
17:17:44 <marga> gwolf, and they had the correct time?
17:17:58 <vorlon> marga: ah, sorry for not spelling this out.  Each room has either a private bathroom, or a bathroom en suite with one adjoining bedroom
17:18:07 <vorlon> so at most 4 people to a bathroom
17:18:08 <gwolf> marga: well, that's not so much up to me :-/ Doodle has timezone corrections, and they now they live in -0430...
17:18:52 <moray> h01ger: right.  both bids have nice things for me, but one of the aspects I like about the Portland bid is the expectation of a very low stress organising process :)
17:18:53 <ultrt> gwolf: has anybody tried to ping them by other means? (phone?)
17:18:54 <gturner> marga, vorlon: i believe the rooms at the ondine also have shared kitchens
17:19:00 <Tincho> In case this hasn't been asked yet: there's a note about speakers having to be careful to meet accesibility standards, that looks a bit scary (in the bureaucratic sense) to me. Can you elaborate?
17:19:11 <h01ger> .oO( 4 random people sharing a bathroom? OMG )
17:19:20 <gwolf> ultrt: not me... I tried to get to Héctor via Jabber
17:19:27 <marga> vorlon, ok.  It'd be nice to have that in the wiki :)
17:19:30 <h01ger> (+SCNR, last comment wasnt really serious)
17:19:40 <tiago> i think it's important to have another meeting, .ve bid can be confused with timezone, doodle gives a wrong timezone for montreal for example
17:19:41 <gwolf> but no answer
17:19:48 <gwolf> and I have no other ways of contacting them
17:19:48 <vorlon> yes, there are kitchenettes as well which could be an interesting discussion point later (post-bid)
17:19:55 <vorlon> marga: ack, will fix
17:20:06 <tiago> (it doesnt consider summer time)
17:20:21 <vorlon> Tincho: sorry, could you point out exactly where in the wiki page it says this?  The accessibility standards aren't meant to be an imposition on the speakers
17:20:29 <moray> tiago: as I said earlier, I think even if Venezuela "cancelled" their bid now, we should have a second meeting to approve a bid (or to decide none is ready)
17:20:30 <harmoney> I'd like to note that the kitchenettes are specific to one of the dorms, so they're not promised for all attendees.
17:20:45 <ana> for info, no venezuelan participated in the doodle to choose the time for this meeting. So not confusion with doodle, looks like none of them followed the list (asking participate in the doodle+when meeting was announced)
17:20:47 <Tincho> vorlon: Having the conference venue at a public university in the United States ensures compliance with ADA. Speakers will need to be made aware of concerns of vision or hearing-impaired attendees to ensure their presentations will accommodate them as well.
17:20:48 * h01ger is/was surprised to read that portland is considered bi-lingual, but yo que se ;-) (i dont doubt it)
17:20:49 <moray> tiago: (and I don't think they have cancelled it yet)
17:20:54 <harmoney> Tincho: I put that note in the wiki page in response to the question about accessibility for hearing or vision impairment.
17:21:34 <Tincho> harmoney: but there's no formal requirement that speakers need to follow then?
17:21:43 <vorlon> h01ger: network+wireless: if we find the wireless infrastructure inadequate, I think they'll be fine with us running our own.  I think we would still want to use the existing campus uplink no matter what, as they have a substantial pipe that will not be at capacity in the summer
17:22:06 <h01ger> vorlon, uplink for sure
17:22:14 <gwolf> (hrm, a downside of holding meetings during work hours is that people come in and grab my attention... :-/ Backlog...)
17:22:37 <vorlon> marga: oh, as for "Columbia rooms", I didn't stay in those and only saw them briefly, so I can't offer much of a comparison.
17:23:16 <gwolf> Tincho: they will "need to be made aware" means.. made aware by us? How do you think we can make people accomodate for i.e. properly legible slides for people with low vision?
17:23:23 <marga> ok, not that the comparison is very important, it's just that it was my only contact with us campus rooms.
17:23:24 <gwolf> (yes, it is a bit off topic, but not strongly)
17:23:27 <OdyX> question from non-commitee member to the portland team: of what help would the Canonical presence in Portland be (work-time, money, support) ?
17:23:30 <harmoney> Tincho: Not more than any other DebConf speakers have been required to follow. :) We can ensure microphone accessibility for speakers for the hearing impairment.
17:23:51 <moray> to be clear: non-committee members are equally invited to ask questions
17:24:00 <Tincho> gwolf, harmoney : ok, I understood more like a law requiring stuff from the speakers :)
17:24:33 <Tincho> another question that might have been answered already: are the access points enough for such a density of geeks? specially in the auditoriums, hacklabs, and hotel rooms? -- from experience, I can say that those already present are never enough
17:24:40 <gwolf> Tincho, harmoney: Oh, perfect :) I didn't want to be arrested because of my ugly slides :)
17:24:41 <OdyX> (fwiw, I'm not trying to paint that fact as a good, or bad thing, just curious)
17:24:41 <h01ger> vorlon, marga: there were two kind of columbia rooms. rather good ones and rather bad ones
17:24:48 <tiago> vorlon, regarding 24h hacklab, as I understood you proposed to use common space that, are they near the rooms?
17:25:11 <Bart_Massey> golf, TIncho: US ADA does not actually require so much; if you're giving a talk with slides, you've got low-vision and low-hearing people covered as far as I know. Never been an issue for me.
17:25:57 <vorlon> OdyX: Canonical doesn't have any formal presence in Portland, I just happen to live in Portland and work for Canonical. ;)  I have not requested my employer's support for this, I expect my organization work to be on my own time
17:26:02 <ana> h01ger: one type of room was slightly better, but overall was the same setup. not point in discussing columbia now.
17:26:05 <Tincho> (sorry to everybody for not sending my questions before -- vacations, etc)
17:26:13 <tiago> We got people annoyed with noise  when common areas close to rooms were used for night hacking
17:26:16 <h01ger> Bart_Massey, lol. (as there are slides which are pretty meaningless regaridng the content..)
17:26:41 <bdale> marga: in my experience, the rooms on campus at Columbia were below-average for college campuses in the US
17:26:49 <moray> h01ger: you could add audio-description as a new video team goal
17:26:50 <OdyX> vorlon: okay. I was confused by past press releases, then. Thanks for the clear answer.
17:26:57 <Bart_Massey> Tincho: The University has a lot of portable AP infrastructure, so can do quite a lot. But if they can't provide enough we can provide our own.
17:26:58 <h01ger> ana, uh. there was a huge difference in the room quality. so it does depend on which of the two room types vorlon saw
17:27:05 * bdale has never seen any such rooms in Portland so can't compare either
17:27:22 <Tincho> Bart_Massey: connected to the same network? multiple essids/nteworks can be a PITA
17:27:23 <moray> normally lots of photos is the best way to answer this kind of question
17:27:33 <ana> well, I can live with bdale's statement about columbia being below average. those buildings were *old*
17:27:35 <gwolf> bdale: oh, wow. And rooms in Columbia were quite OK according to my expectations.
17:27:46 <gwolf> I expected dorms to be much worse!
17:27:47 <h01ger> the pic on the portland bid page shows a pretty nice room. but thats how bid pages are made: always showing the best room
17:27:55 <harmoney> marga: Having stayed in several different US dorms, european hostels and various hotels, the dorm rooms we looked at while touring PSU were very much more like small hotel rooms than anything I've ever seen in a dorm room.
17:28:00 <vorlon> Tincho: we haven't gone in depth with the networking staff yet regarding the APs.  We know that the requirements are quite high, but there's every indication that the staff will be willing to work with us to accomodate our needs - whether that means turning off their APs and us running our own, is to be determined
17:28:17 <marga> harmoney, awesome.
17:28:40 <marga> I was not concerned about the quality, anyway, just about the lack of details in the wiki page.
17:28:49 <OdyX> another question to the Portland team: how would the team of local volunteers react if it was requested to hold the conference +3h travel time further away from most members? (Yes, that's related to DebConf13's history, but it's a serious question.)
17:28:49 <Tincho> vorlon: that's good to know. having helpful stuff goes a long way
17:29:03 <moray> yup
17:29:04 <h01ger> vorlon, i do think that _if_ we should _add_ ours, not turn off theirs. (unless they have some stupid limitations we rather dont want)
17:29:12 <vorlon> tiago: yes, 24 hacklab - yes, there's an open "lounge" space in The Broadway that would be available for use at no extra charge; it is on a separate floor of the building from the bedrooms.  I think that will probably be suitable for a night hacklab
17:29:33 <tiago> vorlon, so great thanks
17:29:35 <gwolf> OdyX: following on that line, I do feel having it in Portland can make it way easier than ever before for people living in East Asia
17:29:42 <gwolf> And Oceania
17:29:55 <ana> OdyX: that has been addressed on list more or less
17:29:58 <gwolf> (yes, Oceania is still half a world apart... but they are used to it :) )
17:30:16 * h01ger is also not concerned about the timezone diff
17:30:33 <h01ger> portland is just too much up north ;-p
17:30:40 <harmoney> OdyX: If the conference venue was proven much better than PSU, we would investigate it. However, finding a conference venue 3 hours away (which would be Seattle, btw), that even matches the quality of technical and hospitable hosting Portland State University provides would be... difficult.
17:30:44 <OdyX> gwolf: my point being "would the team be happy to run DebConf14 in Seattle instead"
17:31:14 <harmoney> And, DebConf team choosing to run the conference in Seattle makes it... not a Portland bid.
17:31:22 <gwolf> OdyX: ah, right :)
17:31:31 <vorlon> h01ger: yes, and when we toured the dorms we were shown "staged" rooms with bed linens provided by a company as advertising ;)  So I can't promise how nice the beds or linens will be, but the room itself looked perfectly adequate
17:31:31 <ana> OdyX: read the list, it is stated clearly that this bid is venue-fixed, I asked that to not repeat the problems you're pointing
17:31:32 <OdyX> harmoney: I'm not sure that is obvious.
17:31:50 <Tincho> another q for portland: will it be possible to make a reservation this year without giving a large sum of money?
17:31:54 <gwolf> so, USians... what about Seattle? Why is Portland better than a bigger city nearby/
17:32:06 * h01ger nods Tinchos question
17:32:13 <moray> gwolf: I think Portland is already fairly big by our normal standards
17:32:23 <moray> gwolf: certainly compared to Vaumarcus :)
17:32:28 <Noodles> I don't think Seattle counts as "nearby".
17:32:29 <gwolf> moray: for this year, yes. But we have been in national capitals before!
17:32:30 <bdale> OdyX: it's completely obvious to me that asking a US bid team to host something in another major US city is pretty irrelevant
17:32:48 <Bart_Massey> Sorry,, got IRC lagged massively. Tincho: Yes, single ESSID. There will be some figuring out the authentication, but shouldn't be a major problem.
17:32:49 <harmoney> gwolf: Please understand that question, to west coasters, generally starts a flamewar much like 'Which OS is better?' in Linux circles.
17:33:01 * bdale would welcome a bid from a Seattle team, but thinks asking the Portland team this particular question is silly
17:33:04 <vorlon> OdyX: +3h travel time further away> I would certainly consider that incompatible with our bid, if someone wants to have DebConf in Seattle instead of in Portland they should have put their own bid together ;)
17:33:05 <moray> yes
17:33:08 <gwolf> harmoney: right. /me shuts up rephrasing others' questinos
17:33:21 <ana> harmoney: heh
17:33:24 <Tincho> Bart_Massey: uhm, captive portals and the such? that would be unfortunate
17:33:25 <OdyX> bdale: well, it was obvious to me last year. I'm not willing to flag dead horses, but Vaumarcus and St-Moritz are twice as far as are Seattle and Portland.
17:33:27 <keithp> besides, portland has better food and nicer people
17:33:37 <moray> OdyX: can we stick to dc14?
17:33:38 * harmoney points at keithp. See?
17:33:39 <bdale> OdyX: I have no context for your question
17:33:45 <OdyX> moray: sure, sorry.
17:33:50 <vorlon> h01ger: their APs are probably tied into the campus authentication infrastructure, we may or may not find it practical to add ours on top of theirs
17:34:18 <bdale> OdyX: I certainly don't recall asking anyone on the Swiss team to consider another location before we selected the site for this year's event
17:34:29 <h01ger> Bart_Massey, captive portals are rather unwanted... encryption is fine obviously
17:34:53 <marga> yes, no captive portals please
17:34:54 <h01ger> vorlon, right
17:34:59 <vorlon> Bart_Massey: do you happen to know the answer to Tincho's question about when deposits would be due?
17:35:29 <h01ger> whats the overall budget you expect (for how many people)?
17:35:48 <Tincho> re wifi: in dc8 we managed to seize control of the wifi network, and that made a big difference, imho. having to reconnect to ssh everytime you move 20m is painful
17:36:08 <vorlon> gwolf: "why Portland not Seattle" - because Portland has a much more active Debian community, and because the local team is driven by people who are local to Portland
17:36:18 * h01ger puts the meeting task in background and has lunch... whats left to discuss for today anyway? timeline/next meeting? or will we doodle that agian?
17:36:21 <ana> h01ger: there is a spreadsheet with that data in the mailing list by alison
17:36:22 <moray> right
17:36:33 <moray> any more concrete questions, or shall we move on?
17:36:36 <h01ger> ana, so whats the summary
17:36:37 <h01ger> ?
17:36:42 <gwolf> h01ger: the doodle is open
17:36:51 <gwolf> (I still haven't "voted" yet, although I opened it)
17:36:52 <OdyX> summary is "no .ve team appeared (yet)", unfortunately.
17:37:07 <Bart_Massey> Tincho: We have some new not-too-obnoxious authentication. It certainly shouldn't get in anyone's way, but if it looks like it will, we'll figure out how to get it changed or turned off.
17:37:14 <h01ger> OdyX, budget summary i asked for
17:37:15 <gwolf> h01ger: but we will have a next meeting... and allow .ve to get their act together
17:37:26 * wendar lives in seattle, and I'll note that we're just barely starting to get debian-seattle-soc rebooted
17:37:27 <gwolf> ...in case, as tiago pointed out, they had a wrong timezone or whatever
17:37:30 <moray> right.  we still need to have a venue decision meeting
17:37:40 <Tincho> Bart_Massey: ok. I think it would be great if you guys could talk to the people in charge and get a feeling about all that
17:37:47 <moray> VE are not automatically ruled out due to not being here today
17:37:48 <wendar> Portland is the better location
17:38:00 <marga> I have one Portland question
17:38:05 <marga> The wiki says it will be sunny
17:38:07 <wendar> (and I nearly drove down to Portland yesterday for the debian-portland-soc meeting :)
17:38:12 <harmoney> marga: It's not a lie.
17:38:25 <marga> But isn't Portland supposed to be a place were it rains all the time?
17:38:26 <wendar> august is the sunny month
17:38:38 <Bart_Massey> vorlon: I think deposits aren't usually due until fairly late, but I wouldn't swear to it. The spaces do book out well ahead, so we'd be well-served to grab the dates we want as soon as practical.
17:38:40 <marga> (I'm ashamed of citing my information source)
17:38:41 <vorlon> marga: that's just a story we tell people from California to keep them away
17:38:47 <Tincho> I would emphasise on getting data about the timeframes for reservations, i think that's a very important point for any venue
17:39:05 <Noodles> marga: I think Seattle has more rain.
17:39:16 <moray> Tincho: right.  but deposits aren't really a practical problem, as long as the venue costs are themselves reasonable
17:39:17 <wendar> Noodles: true
17:39:19 <Noodles> Portland is nice. It's green.
17:39:27 <moray> Tincho: I don't think we expect PSU to go bust and lose our money
17:39:28 <h01ger> Bart_Massey, whats "late"? a month before? half a year?
17:39:29 <bdale> I've been in Portland when it was raining, hard.  But most of the times I've been there it has been nice out.
17:39:30 <harmoney> marga: It rains a lot in Portland (and more in Seattle), but gets fairly dry from about June through September.
17:39:31 <Tincho> moray: fincancially it can be troublesome
17:39:35 <vorlon> marga: the rainy season in Portland starts between mid-September and mid-October, and usually runs until around April.  August is the height of the dry season, and it's usually very sunny
17:39:47 <vorlon> marga: you were watching Portlandia? :)
17:39:50 <marga> ok, tnx
17:39:58 <harmoney> Portlandia has nothing to do with Portland.
17:40:01 <marga> nah, it's even more shameful.
17:40:06 <moray> Tincho: as long as it's not too large, we can use Debian funds to pay the deposit even if sponsorship hasn't come in yet
17:40:06 <vorlon> I have been forbidden from embedding Portlandia video clips in our bid page
17:40:15 <ana> so what are the questions the portland team should get more information for deciding in the next meeting? maybe we need to go thru the checklist :?
17:40:18 <harmoney> That's because it's a heretical show that has nothing to do with Portland.
17:40:24 <Noodles> I blame Portlandia for me watching Battlestar Galactica.
17:40:31 <moray> ana: well, other questions should probably go to the list
17:40:34 <harmoney> Well, at least it did one good thing.
17:40:39 <Tincho> I have another question, as an informal representative of the Smokers in DebConf collective :) how's this thing about being 77m from any entrance or air intake? that seems to me like going out of town to smoke a fag
17:40:42 * bdale ^5's harmoney
17:41:10 <Tincho> and more specifically: how much do I need to walk from the hotel room/hacklab/conf room to smike?
17:41:27 <gwolf> Bart_Massey: and would you think there is a probability of PSU being interested in becoming our sponsor (i.e. reducing fees or even waving them)?
17:41:28 <marga> Yes, I have to say that I was suprised by such a figure
17:41:40 <marga> is it 300 feet, or what?
17:42:05 <keithp> gwolf: bart's IRC client is terribly lagged
17:42:35 <gwolf> keithp: and I have random people walking into my office, so I think we can be ± in sync ;-)
17:42:40 <Noodles> 77m? Is that a PSU thing? I thought it was 10ft.
17:42:53 <moray> maybe ask about the details on the list?
17:42:56 <keithp> gwolf: unlikely to get much from PSU (according to bart)
17:42:58 <moray> that seems a better place to debate the details
17:42:59 <vorlon> gwolf: PSU is already a de facto sponsor, the quoted rates are half the rates to the public thanks to Bart_Massey's sponsorship
17:43:00 <Tincho> in california it was something like 10ft too
17:43:09 <gwolf> vorlon: Ok, that's a good answer :)
17:43:10 <harmoney> Noodles: It's a PSU thing. It's a smoke-free campus.
17:43:17 <moray> if we're onto discussing different state's smoking laws, then probably we can close the meeting
17:43:19 <vorlon> 77m == 250ft
17:43:32 <gwolf> 10ft == joke IMO.
17:43:33 <vorlon> one question did occur to me that I'd like to ask the team
17:43:44 <Tincho> gwolf: let's not get into that discussion :)
17:43:47 <gwolf> :)
17:43:50 <bdale> maybe the smoking space can be in Seattle?  ;-)
17:43:53 <vorlon> we're so far proposing a single "Week" event
17:43:54 <harmoney> Tincho: We'd have to investigate that more thoroughly. Smoking concerns were ... not on our list of questions when we toured.
17:43:59 <h01ger> .oO( requirement for future bids: provide all distances in metric. ;)
17:44:11 * bdale slaps himself
17:44:14 <vorlon> does the team have any feedback on this proposal to not run a separate DebCamp?
17:44:22 * h01ger grins at bdale
17:44:23 <Tincho> harmoney: I understand people don't consider us very highly, but we are quite a few people concerned with that
17:44:27 * ana points that distances in the bid page are in meters :-)
17:44:30 <moray> vorlon: you're not going to get a single view on that
17:44:45 <moray> vorlon: but see the previous list thread about this
17:44:49 <harmoney> Tincho: I didn't consider smoking accessibility to be a handicap. my apologies. :)
17:44:51 <h01ger> vorlon, oh, i didnt get that part so far. must be hidden in the bid page ;)
17:44:52 <marga> What's the motivation of not running DebCamp?
17:44:57 <vorlon> moray: well, on a more practical note, should we be worried about trying to reserve for two weeks rather than one?
17:45:00 <gwolf> vorlon: I'd prefer considering a two week conference, except if it gets too expensive (and then, still, *trying* to make it two weeks)
17:45:01 <moray> marga: see the previous list thread
17:45:23 <marga> ok, will read the list
17:45:24 <vorlon> marga: my personal motivation is that 2 weeks is two long and I have never, ever attended for the whole two weeks
17:45:26 <moray> marga: normally having two weeks doubles many costs, without doubling the benefit
17:45:33 <vorlon> but there are cost savings too
17:45:42 <vorlon> s/two long/too long/
17:45:45 <moray> and especially in the US it's impractical for people to take two weeks for DebConf
17:46:06 <bdale> a "week" inclusive of both bracketing weekends seems quite plausible to me
17:46:13 <moray> and nowadays we have many other sprints etc. that have taken away some of the benefit of DebCamp
17:46:25 <moray> when we started it, that was the *only* such Debian work time
17:46:29 <Tincho> I think this year will be like an experiment re. duration of debconf... probably we'll have a different idea after dc13 finishes
17:46:36 <moray> right
17:46:53 <ultrt> +1 for keeping it flexible until after dc13, if possible
17:46:58 <vorlon> so as moray said, opinions are mixed... but I don't hear any strenuous objections that tell me we should be worrying right now about reserving 2 weeks
17:47:03 <OdyX> .oO(There might be money for 2 weeks in DC13, though)
17:47:06 <gwolf> vorlon: the first part of the first week is usually a good buffer for us organizers to get everything working
17:47:07 * h01ger eyes our usual 1h meeting time limit
17:47:12 <marga> Yes, it'd be fine if we make it from Friday night to next Sunday night or something like that.
17:47:19 <h01ger> OdyX, i hope so
17:47:22 <Tincho> vorlon: probably it is a good idea to know the costs and availability anyway
17:47:22 <moray> h01ger: right, I have been trying to get people to finish up earlier than that even :)
17:47:30 <gwolf> i.e. people usually "understand" if during the first days network is flaky and there is some stuff still pending to be arranged
17:47:33 <moray> #topic Next steps
17:47:33 <vorlon> ultrt: well, bear in mind that if we don't block the two weeks with the university initially, "after DC13" is probably too late
17:47:40 <moray> "After this meeting, bid teams answer questions on the mailing list, where they weren't already answered during the meeting. Others raise any new questions or ask for clarifications as necessary."
17:47:44 <gwolf> so, organization-wise, having some days over the regular week, helps us
17:47:47 <OdyX> vorlon: I think that crossing one continent and one ocean for 9 days is also kinda-silly; so I'm rather in favour of a two-weeks event, even if not everyone attends the full two weeks.
17:48:07 <moray> And we have a doodle I think for the next meeting date?
17:48:12 <h01ger> vorlon, so the plan is no debcamp at all or two days or what? we *do* need some preparation time...
17:48:13 <moray> Can someone paste in the link?
17:48:29 <ana> yes, http://doodle.com/394h2my78ezv94bp
17:48:42 <ana> but I don't understand why to skip next week
17:48:45 <vorlon> h01ger: prep time is in my mind entirely separate from DebCamp; maybe we should discuss this after the meeting or on the list?
17:48:51 <moray> #action Everyone should add their availability to http://doodle.com/394h2my78ezv94bp
17:48:52 <marga> ana, Easter?
17:48:57 <Tincho> as a FYI, I would like to point out that it seems that it is more expensive to go to portland than to go to caracas, from dublin
17:48:58 <h01ger> #info doodle for next meeting is http://doodle.com/394h2my78ezv94bp
17:49:07 <gwolf> ana: I suggested skipping next week because many among us will be unavailable
17:49:11 <ana> marga: that's only monday, no?
17:49:18 <marga> ana, depends on the country
17:49:22 <ultrt> ana: I think it's because I'm on a honeymoon :p
17:49:31 <h01ger> easter is friday to monday
17:49:33 <moray> gwolf: I know some people will be on holiday, that doesn't necessarily make them unavailable more than when they're working
17:49:34 <gwolf> ana: For some of us (Latin America?), it's a full-week vacation
17:50:00 <moray> but, anyone who really wants it sooner, please argue that on the list
17:50:01 <gwolf> anyway - It also leaves a week to answer the needed questions. I didn't want to put the too meetings just next to each other
17:50:02 <vorlon> Tincho: yes - but the Venezuela bid is not in Caracas, it's in Puerto La Cruz
17:50:05 <Tincho> in spain is a full week too
17:50:17 <Tincho> vorlon: yes, but pt la cruz is not a very realistic choice, afaik
17:50:27 <moray> thank you everyone for attending, and I look forward to the rest of the list discussion then a decision meeting soon
17:50:28 <ana> Tincho: no, it changes between regions and in some is the week before, in some is only monday, etc :)
17:50:35 <Tincho> ana: ack
17:50:38 <moray> #endmeeting