18:08:03 <gwolf> #startmeeting 18:08:03 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Feb 8 18:08:03 2012 UTC. The chair is gwolf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:08:03 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 18:08:18 <gwolf> #pingall 18:08:22 <gwolf> or how was it? 18:08:33 <h01ger> MeetBot, pingall meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeting 18:08:33 <MeetBot> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeting 18:08:33 <MeetBot> aliceinwire alucardn3 amaya AndrewLee azeem_ bdale bgupta blarson bubulle Caroll cate christoph Clint cpt_nemo dam darst dkg edrz faw FBI fcestrada fil franklin Ganneff gregoa gwolf h01ger jeremyb jimbodoors JuN1x Kaare karora leogg lucas luciano madduck marga 18:08:33 <MeetBot> maxy MeetBot moray msantana n0rman nattie nomada nomadium OdyX paravoid paulproteus Rhonda rmayorga schultmc schultmc_ sgran simonft Sledge suihkulokki taffit tiago tiago_ Tincho tokkee Tolimar vorlon xamanu zumbi 18:08:33 <MeetBot> meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeting 18:08:37 <gwolf> #topic DebConf13 bids status 18:08:42 <gwolf> h01ger: thx :) 18:08:59 <gwolf> Ok, I'll start talking about this one... And then we'll see if there is anything worth commenting on 18:09:01 * karora wakes up. 18:09:02 * h01ger relocates, sorry, but here i only have outgoing ip due to maintainance, but no dns anymore and this kinda sux 18:09:13 <h01ger> (that obviously started 9min ago...) 18:09:16 <h01ger> cu soon 18:09:38 <gwolf> We had the first part of the DC13 meeting... Was it two weeks ago? One week ago? 18:09:49 <gwolf> well, the date is not so relevant 18:10:17 <gwolf> so, we got two bid runners for the final part of it: Riga (Latvia) and LeCamp (Switzerland) 18:10:39 <gwolf> Both proposals are good and strong... I won't go into too many details here 18:11:16 <gwolf> there are logs available :) But we agreed to formally form the DebConf committee that will assist in choosing which one is the winner 18:11:49 <gwolf> And hold a decision making meeting, which was recently announced by moray, and will be held between next Wednesday and the following Tuesday. 18:12:41 <gwolf> The functions for this committee are formally... well, helping reach a consensus between the bidding teams, and -failing a simple consensus- voting on he proposals 18:14:06 <gwolf> #info The DebConf committee is formed of the DebConf chairs (moray, h01ger and myself), plus karora, ana, Caroll, bdale, bubulle, ultrotter and marga 18:14:19 <gwolf> And... basically that's what there is. 18:14:22 <gwolf> Any questions? 18:14:36 <gwolf> comments? 18:14:41 <gwolf> anybody awake? :) 18:14:52 <Caroll> I'm awake :) 18:14:52 <moray> (I'm awake, kind of) 18:15:01 <luciano> me too :) 18:15:02 <leogg> :) 18:15:11 <gwolf> ok... so I think we can go to the next item on the list 18:15:25 <gwolf> #topic Update from DebConf12 local team 18:15:31 <gwolf> guys, your stage 18:15:37 <gwolf> i'll #info / #action if needed 18:15:50 * karora awake, even :-) 18:15:56 <leogg> ok 18:16:29 <leogg> so... we're considering a new venue for debconf12 18:16:36 <leogg> Hotel Ticomo 18:16:40 <leogg> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20120208.061902.6b3b8e14.en.html 18:17:01 <leogg> there are some advantages, such as we're all going to be on a same place and it's probably going to be cheaper than the actual proposed venue 18:17:06 <gwolf> #info New venue being considered for DebConf12: Hotel Ticomo 18:17:12 <gwolf> #link http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20120208.061902.6b3b8e14.en.html 18:17:25 <leogg> the biggest difficulties are that the venue is located far away from the centre of the city, the place is not accessible; it's located on a hill and has a lot of steps and obstacles 18:17:54 <gwolf> leogg: roughly, what does "cheaper" mean in numbers? 18:17:55 <leogg> I don't know if you have any questions right now? I'm answering gwolf questions on the list 18:18:14 <xamanu> on the bottom of the message from the link above you can find the website, a link to photos and a map 18:18:25 <leogg> gwolf, let me copy+paste :) 18:18:38 <leogg> The rooms are going to be at least 50-75% cheaper than Crowne Plaza (and about same cost as El Conquistador and triple rooms at Teodolinda). Around ~$20 per person/day. 18:18:43 <leogg> The conference rooms costs from $450 to $1000 (each, per day) at Crowne Plaza. At Ticomo the most expensive conference room costs $250 per day. 18:19:00 <gwolf> food? 18:19:23 <leogg> gwolf, the food is expensive... but we're trying to get a new quotation 18:19:28 <gwolf> #info Lodging and work spaces are in general over 50% cheaper than in the Crowne Plaza 18:19:30 <leogg> right now it's around $15 18:19:34 <moray> All I had seen the last few days looked much more realistic than the Crowne Plaza. 18:19:39 <xamanu> gwolf: food depends on what we want to spend. If we want a international menu with all good things it would probably the biggest expense 18:19:47 <moray> I'm a bit worried by the comments I saw today about accessibility. 18:19:47 <gwolf> So we're talking about a combined US$35 per person per day 18:19:53 <gwolf> or is 15 per meal? 18:19:59 <gwolf> moray: right 18:20:00 <leogg> gwolf, per meal 18:20:07 <xamanu> $30 per day 18:20:08 <moray> Non-accessible is not an option, so it's not enough to say "it might not be done" 18:20:10 <gwolf> ok 18:20:25 <moray> You'd need to be ready to *make sure* it's done, including turning up with cement mixers yourselves :) 18:20:32 <xamanu> moray: it is not accessible at the moment. the owner promised us to build the conditions 18:20:35 <karora> So does having the Ticomo option make Crowne Plaza softer on their price? 18:20:36 <leogg> gwolf, total cost is around $50 per person/day with food and accomodation 18:20:40 <moray> xamanu: yes. 18:20:41 <gwolf> leogg: In your mail you mention they are willing to do the conditions... How realistic does it sound? 18:20:49 <n0rman> yes, we are waiting a new quotation for food from dthe hotel, they told us to send it today 18:20:57 <xamanu> this would mean to work together with them, so it is going to happen (really) and it is based on the needs we have 18:21:04 <moray> Is there a photo of the "most difficult" part to the main talk room, mentioned on the list? 18:21:14 <leogg> gwolf, I'm the pessimist here... :) so, I have my doubts 18:21:31 <gwolf> to be honest, even without the price item, the Ticomo looks like a better option to me... BUT the accessibility has to be worked out. And not with a contract that might not be accomplished by July. 18:21:36 <n0rman> gwolf: for me, it sounds realistic, shel told us that there were a meeting from UN and they have to make it accesible to some areas because there were a persona in wheelchair in that meeting 18:21:45 <xamanu> moray: yes, https://gallery.debconf.org/v/dc12bids/managua/ticomohotel/IMG_1249.JPG.html 18:21:55 <leogg> n0rman, but it was some minor ramps 18:22:02 <n0rman> leogg: but they did it 18:22:25 <leogg> n0rman, the last one to the main room needs to be HUGE 18:22:29 <gwolf> #info Ticomo has accessibility issues, but they are interested in doing the works to get it solved in time for DebConf (although it's still just a promise) 18:22:39 <n0rman> that's why I'm optimist thinking that they can do it again 18:22:40 <xamanu> i think it is realistic. but it would mean that we have dedicated persons to help them and to make sure that things are happening 18:22:42 <leogg> n0rman, and there are a lot of other details too 18:22:51 <gwolf> n0rman: so it'd be with temporal (i.e. wooden) ramps? 18:23:01 <moray> gwolf: My worry on the other side is that getting enough money for CP may *not* be possible. 18:23:08 <n0rman> gwolf: no, it was not temporal, they build it 18:23:08 <leogg> gwolf, no... it has to be permanent (cement) 18:23:13 <gwolf> xamanu: we precisely want people to be able to move without somebody there to help them 18:23:17 <gwolf> leogg: right. 18:23:29 <gwolf> moray: completely with you on this... The CP is just too expensive 18:23:37 <gwolf> ...And it sorta-breaks the DebConfy way ;-) 18:23:40 <moray> xamanu: for the part in that photo, I'd guess some "go round a long way" path might be better than a direct ramp 18:23:56 <moray> xamanu: though obviously I can't see the layout 18:24:11 <xamanu> gwolf: dedicated persons to help them... with "them" i meant the administration of the hotel to build the stuff 18:24:13 <gwolf> And guys, make sure they also think about the visually impaired 18:24:14 <h01ger> re 18:24:25 <xamanu> moray: yes, of course 18:24:31 <gwolf> xamanu: ah, ok, not somebody waiting for our disabled person to push them around 18:24:39 <xamanu> gwolf: no 18:24:54 <gwolf> ok... Well, I think this point could be carried on forever :) 18:24:58 <leogg> visually impared is going to be a challenge too, the place is full of stairs 18:25:04 <xamanu> gwolf: but for blind people we have to look for a solution. since the area is pretty big. we have to be creative... 18:25:17 <gwolf> but I know you understand the issue... and will trust you to work on it, right? 18:25:39 <gwolf> Besides accessibility, any other problems here? Have you talked with Internet providers? 18:25:57 <xamanu> no, we have a meeting this afternoon 18:26:00 <moray> I guess you'd need to have accessibility and internet "ready by June", for example, so that there's time for panic action at the end. 18:26:07 <gwolf> Also, some people like staying in a better category place than the rest of us. Is there an option for them? 18:26:10 <xamanu> not with the providers directly but with the Nicaraguan Internet Association 18:26:18 <xamanu> gwolf: no 18:26:24 <leogg> gwolf, not near 18:26:32 <moray> On the hotel itself, I didn't quite understand the comments on room numbers etc. 18:26:33 <gwolf> #info This afternoon localteam meets with the Nicaraguan Internet Association to check connectivity for Ticomo 18:26:36 <xamanu> this would mean at least 20min taxi ride 18:26:59 <gwolf> #info More "classy" accomodation not available nearby (≥20min taxi ride) 18:27:10 <moray> They seemed to assume we fill the capacity of the hotel, but what if we only have 200 people, say -- can we have a nicer room use, without increasing the costs? 18:27:11 <gwolf> What about rooms for couples? 18:27:15 * h01ger catched up on backlog 18:27:23 <gwolf> h01ger: welcome to the present 18:27:28 <xamanu> gwolf: no, all rooms would be packed like in a youth hostel 18:27:52 <leogg> moray, the only difference between rooms are the number of beds 18:27:56 <gwolf> Ok. I still find it quite acceptable, given our conditions 18:27:58 <moray> xamanu: even if we have fewer people? 18:28:02 <leogg> there are no 'nicer' rooms 18:28:07 <gwolf> Can we get floor plans? 18:28:10 <xamanu> moray: there are 53 rooms.... 18:28:33 <h01ger> how many people are supposed to be in a room there? 18:28:36 <h01ger> 4? 10? 18:28:40 <xamanu> or little houses, i should have said 18:28:44 <leogg> gwolf, I don't know if they have floor plans 18:28:45 <xamanu> 5-8 18:29:05 <n0rman> xamanu: remember that it's more like cabins and not rooms 18:29:06 <gwolf> leogg: but you said there are rooms for between 3 and 8 people. Can we offer couples to put the cost for the third person and offer them a three-person room? (Not that's needed, but it's a nice extra. But we can do without it) 18:29:13 <h01ger> +15 USD / person? 18:29:21 <xamanu> on the map (http://i.imgur.com/azf9l.jpg) you can see all the blue boxes are the little houses 18:29:24 <moray> xamanu: but if we have 200 people (e.g.), would we need to pack the rooms to capacity, or can we spread out more fo the same prices? 18:29:36 <gwolf> #link Ticomo map: http://www.animales-en-extincion.info/el_perezoso 18:29:56 <gwolf> #info accomodation is more like cabins, with a youth hostel-like arrangement (5-8 people per cabin) 18:30:09 <leogg> gwolf, there are no rooms for couples... right now most of the rooms have three beds, but we'll probably need to fit two or more extra bed in there 18:30:20 * h01ger thinks 15 USD per person is ok for 5 persons per room but less ok with 8 18:30:21 <xamanu> moray: we would have to negotiate that. for now they are charging us based on the number of persons 18:30:33 <moray> h01ger: right 18:30:49 <xamanu> prices per night differ if they sleep on the mattress, a bed and with or without air condition 18:30:52 <moray> I'm not so worried for couples, but if we have to pack everyone 8 (or equivalent) to a room, ... 18:30:57 <gwolf> Also, you mentioned shared bathrooms - Shared between the cabins, or between the 8 occupants of a single cabin? 18:31:20 <n0rman> gwolf: in the sam cabin 18:31:24 <gwolf> xamanu: I do think everybody will REALLY want air conditioning, even if we have to buy some units 18:31:25 <xamanu> 2 cabins have a shared bathroom. all the others have a separate one 18:31:30 <leogg> gwolf, some are shared between cabins 18:31:31 <gregoa> gwolf: the animales-en-extincion link looks like a mis-paste 18:31:36 <gwolf> jajajaja 18:31:38 <gwolf> gregoa: thanks! 18:31:44 <h01ger> hihi 18:31:45 <n0rman> gwolf: but there are like 10 cabins with 2 rooms and the bathroom is inside of one room :S 18:31:55 <gwolf> #info Correction to the link wrongly pasted 18:32:05 <gwolf> #link Ticomo map http://i.imgur.com/azf9l.jpg 18:32:15 <gregoa> mejor :) 18:32:18 <moray> n0rman: when you say "bathroom in the room", is there still a door between the bathroom and room? 18:32:18 <gwolf> Anyway... Details follow on the list 18:32:20 <gwolf> gregoa: thanks 18:32:25 <leogg> those 10 cabins are a problem, the bathroom is literally insdide one of the rooms 18:32:29 <gregoa> gwolf: de nada 18:32:44 <moray> leogg: I'm still not sure exactly what you mean 18:32:50 <n0rman> moray: no, you have to enter the another room in order to go to the bathroom 18:32:50 <leogg> moray, yes... but you have to wake up your room mate if you want to use the bathroom 18:33:07 <moray> leogg: right, yes 18:33:09 <gwolf> people, should we move to the next topic and leave the Ticomo details for the list... preferable aided with photos :) 18:33:13 <n0rman> moray: there are 10 cabins with two rooms each, and the bathroom for the cabin is inside one of those rooms 18:33:21 <moray> Yes, we can't make a decision without knowing about the internet etc. 18:33:28 <gwolf> #topic Sponsorship levels for DebConf12 18:33:38 <gwolf> who holds this topic? 18:33:42 <leogg> right 18:33:43 <n0rman> We was checking sponsorship levels from previous DebConf, and we agree that sponsorship levels for DC11 http://debconf11.debconf.org/sponsorship.xhtml and just change EUR to USD. 18:34:16 <n0rman> It's really neccesary to have this finished so we can start to contact possible sponsors. 18:34:26 <moray> Contacting them is pretty urgent. 18:34:27 <n0rman> I wrote sponsorship team and waiting for a response 18:34:27 * h01ger had no time to look into this again 18:34:47 <leogg> we're really worried about sponsorship 18:34:47 <gwolf> n0rman: I think it's sensible... Specially if we want local companies to sponsor 18:34:51 <moray> When you say "change EUR to USD", you mean just keep the numbers, i.e. lower the amounts?# 18:35:01 <gwolf> maybe leaving the upper brackets closer to their current levels 18:35:04 <n0rman> moray: keep the same number as DC11 18:35:24 <gwolf> i.e. I don't expect a Nicaraguan platinum sponsorship - we can leave it closer to its DC11 monetary level 18:35:27 * h01ger reads http://debconf11.debconf.org/sponsorship.xhtml with s/EUR/USD/ in mind 18:35:31 <n0rman> leogg: xamanu and I are ok if we use the same 18:35:48 <moray> did you speak to some people who worked on sponsorship for dc11/dc10? 18:35:49 <gwolf> But steel/bronze, it makes sense just copying the numbers over 18:35:52 <n0rman> as DC11, we think that is ok 18:36:10 <moray> I didn't, but those people will be able to confirm if the levels make sense 18:36:13 <n0rman> moray: as I told you, I wrote the sponsorship team and waiting for a response 18:36:22 <moray> n0rman: I think you need to contact the people individually 18:36:49 <n0rman> uhmm 18:36:50 <h01ger> there is not much incentive to buy gold 18:36:56 <h01ger> (looking from a sponsors pov) 18:37:02 <gwolf> h01ger: maybe we have too many levels? 18:37:03 <h01ger> except being gold 18:37:31 <h01ger> gwolf, hmmm. git 18:37:36 <h01ger> gwolf, hmmm. good question 18:37:40 <h01ger> (git is the answer!) 18:37:51 <n0rman> h01ger: having a banner behind talk podiums. I think it's cool, your logo it will be on all the videos and not only in the video 18:38:00 <gwolf> I'd go for something like steel US$1000, bronze US$2000, silver US$5000, gold US$15000, platinum US$30000 or something like it? 18:38:04 <h01ger> n0rman, is that worth 5000 USD? 18:38:18 <h01ger> you get the logo on all the videos for silver already 18:38:30 <h01ger> 5000 _extra_, mind you 18:38:38 <moray> h01ger: perhaps the "bigger logo for more money" part should be emphasised more in the text 18:38:46 <gwolf> (oh, that'd make it much less interesting... Well, we'd have to adjust, but you get my idea) 18:38:47 * h01ger nods 18:38:48 <moray> (though not giving precise pixel counts) 18:38:51 <n0rman> h01ger: yes, but ir will be for more minutes in the video 18:39:04 <h01ger> n0rman, so what. really. 18:39:21 <h01ger> thats hardly something worth 5000usd _extra_ 18:39:31 <h01ger> companies need to invest wisely 18:39:48 <xamanu> I agree with all suggestions here. And the proposed sponsorship levels from gwolf make sense to me now. 18:39:49 <h01ger> and 5000 more for maybe be sometimes more on the video, doesnt cut it 18:39:51 <moray> h01ger: well, I think the companies are mostly "sponsoring DebConf" rather than worrying about the precise benefits 18:40:08 <moray> h01ger: though I agree, in principle it might make sense to have fewer levels and clearer differences 18:40:14 <h01ger> moray, i have talked with sponsors about it and they *do care* about what they get back. 18:40:20 <moray> h01ger: but then you need to be more intelligent about setting the levels 18:40:20 <gwolf> xamanu: only that the jump from silver at 5000 to gold at 15000 would be baically stupid :-( 18:40:31 <moray> h01ger: which you may be able to do from experience, I can't 18:40:33 <n0rman> gold and platinum could be with logo in a special or exclusive position, respectively 18:40:34 <h01ger> at least when giving more. for <2000 USD its probably right that they dont care that much 18:40:56 <h01ger> hah 18:40:59 <h01ger> idea: 18:41:11 <gwolf> h01ger: for a Nicaraguan company, 2000USD can beserious money 18:41:14 <h01ger> make gold 10000 and add the extra benefit: will be mentioned in all press releases 18:41:34 <h01ger> (though then we cannot mention the silver ones anymore. hmm .( 18:41:54 <h01ger> gwolf, i think our levels are fine on the low end 18:42:06 <gwolf> h01ger: we can, but we'd have to emphasize the gold+platinum ones 18:42:11 <gwolf> It's a nice idea, I think 18:42:40 <n0rman> the current levels are http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf12/SponsorPack 18:42:49 <gwolf> #info Discussing the sponsorship levels, an idea is to keep the lower brackets at the same numbers than DC11 but in USD instead of EUR, and adjusting the upper ones 18:43:13 <h01ger> #idea maybe add benefit "emphasize gold sponsors in PR material" 18:43:20 <h01ger> this idea needs more cooking 18:43:34 <gwolf> Ok... so lets all cook it, and move on? :) 18:43:37 <moray> you can also put fewer levels in the sponsor pack 18:43:42 <leogg> I agree on adjusting the upper ones, but I'm not ahppy on posponing this much more 18:43:46 <moray> but have more benefits held back to offer when negotiating 18:43:48 <leogg> can we set a deadline? 18:43:55 <gwolf> leogg: we need to do this FAST, right 18:43:59 <gwolf> we are way too close already 18:44:10 <moray> will we do this on the list, or another special meeting? 18:44:13 <leogg> gwolf, yes, please! we're really worried 18:44:15 <moray> (which would have to be soon) 18:44:25 <n0rman> leogg: I will prefer if we can define this now 18:44:26 <leogg> moray, I prefer the list 18:44:34 <xamanu> I prefer now 18:44:37 <gwolf> moray: I think non-meeting time in the channel, backing it on the list, would be good 18:44:52 <n0rman> Can't it be done now? 18:44:52 <gwolf> but we can set a deadline to... A week from now, latest? 18:45:00 <h01ger> we can finalize now, but if it sux, we'll need to redo anyway 18:45:15 <leogg> I'm fine with giving it seven more days 18:45:16 <gwolf> I think we should work a bit more i.e. on the silver-gold differentiation 18:45:24 <n0rman> h01ger: or we can do something that doesn't suck :) 18:45:26 <h01ger> n0rman, can you ping me on saturday/sunday about these levels please? though 7 more days is also fine with me 18:45:27 <gwolf> checking the reality of the numbers 18:45:39 <moray> h01ger: 'this weekend' would seem a good deadline to me 18:45:40 <karora> When I've done sponsorship in the past I've allowed for some negotiation room in the top level. 18:45:47 <n0rman> h01ger: ok I will, some one else we can ping the weekend? 18:46:15 <gwolf> #info We set a deadline for having the numbers and privileges set for this weekend (i.e. maximum period for final prices to be published on Monday) 18:46:32 <h01ger> karora, sure 18:46:34 <leogg> nice! :) 18:46:42 <gwolf> #info We *need* to discuss it on the channel / on the list, probably during the weekend. 18:46:51 <gwolf> oki... 18:46:53 <n0rman> another thing on the sponsorship 18:47:10 <gwolf> n0rman: please? 18:47:23 <n0rman> Also we want to discuss how to manage funds here. It would be very dfficult if we transfer the money to SPI and then to Nicaragua again, and we will pay a lot in tansfers tax. We can contact a NGO so they can manage funds but probably they will charge us 5-10% for this. 18:48:00 <h01ger> ouch 18:48:01 * gwolf is called away - I'll be back in ≤5min, sorry! 18:48:09 <h01ger> n0rman, so whats your suggestion? 18:48:15 <n0rman> A better to solution is to make some agreement with ISIC (which I'm the owner) to open an account ISIC/Debconf. In this case, DebConf has not to pay any charge and people in charge of accounting will have full access via Internet to check balance when they need it. 18:48:26 <h01ger> whats isic? 18:48:31 <n0rman> h01ger: an IT academy 18:48:41 <h01ger> what kind of legal status? 18:48:50 <h01ger> url? 18:48:57 <n0rman> h01ger: ? is legal, is an IT academy working since 1991 in Managua 18:49:07 <n0rman> h01ger: http://www.isi.edu.ni 18:49:11 <h01ger> thanks 18:49:26 <n0rman> h01ger: it's the old site, the new one is http://www.isic.edu.ni but it's not finished yet 18:50:04 <n0rman> and with ISIC we can open a bank account like ISIC/DebConf and give full acces via Internet to people in charge of accounting 18:50:10 <gwolf> back 18:50:11 <n0rman> so they can check when they need it 18:50:22 <h01ger> n0rman, but legally who owns it? just you? 18:50:24 <n0rman> it would be an account used only for DebConf 18:50:29 <h01ger> or is it an association or ? 18:51:05 * gwolf has been to ISIC 18:51:07 <n0rman> h01ger: is and association with two brothers and I'm the legal representantive 18:51:38 <gwolf> I'd say... Well, when we had DC6 we had set up a formal relationship with AMESOL, which in the end didn't work due to legal details 18:51:55 <n0rman> so I think it would be the better option 18:51:58 <gwolf> and all the money we handled here was basically to my and Gaby's personal accounts 18:51:58 <moray> n0rman: I think he's asking whether it's non-profit or the local equivalent, or a regular company 18:52:12 <moray> gwolf: right. and Debian probably would be less happy with that now than then 18:52:24 <n0rman> moray: is an IT academy, so it's non-profit, is a regular company 18:52:24 <xamanu> moray: it is a "regular" company 18:52:31 * h01ger nods gwolf + moray 18:52:34 <gwolf> n0rman: Just please be sure of what that'd mean for ISIC's finances - i.e. tax reports and similar 18:52:45 <h01ger> moray, though we still can make contracts... so 18:52:48 <moray> this proposal sounds sensible to me, I hope "Debian" would agree, as long as we use an agreement like we had with DIVA 18:52:48 <gwolf> moray: of course. And we are not talking on it being to n0rman's personal account now 18:52:53 <moray> yup 18:53:12 <n0rman> gwolf: i doesn't mean anything, I make questions to accounting people and they told me that it's ok 18:53:16 <moray> Hydroxide would probably still mutter something about where SPI can pass money to legally :) 18:53:16 <leogg> gwolf, as an educational institute, I think ISIC is tax exempt 18:53:31 <h01ger> leogg, its important to find out 18:53:31 <gwolf> n0rman: Can I transfer you US$shitload and you don't have to pay taxes for it? 18:53:32 <n0rman> leogg: yes, we are tax exempt 18:53:38 * gwolf moves his holdings and savings to Nicaragua 18:53:41 <leogg> yep 18:53:44 <n0rman> gwolf: no, only taxes for making the transfer 18:54:16 <gwolf> #info n0rman suggests using ISIC, an IT educational institute, as the entity for handling our funds in Nicaragua 18:54:48 <gwolf> n0rman: I think we have to check this with zack. We do have autonomy for spending DebConf money, but at least an OK from the DPL is in place 18:54:56 <gwolf> moray, h01ger: agree? 18:55:03 <h01ger> wont hurt for sure 18:55:05 <h01ger> ;) 18:55:17 <moray> gwolf: yes 18:55:23 <gwolf> I trust n0rman and ISIC, so I'm in 18:55:26 <n0rman> it's going to be in a sepparate account from the normally used for ISIC 18:55:34 <moray> and yes, the Nicaraguans should check the legal details again 18:55:43 <moray> one question is whether they can pass money back out 18:55:47 <moray> without losing lots of it 18:55:51 <gwolf> #info we will contact the DPL for his opinion on this 18:55:54 <n0rman> I ask to the bank and they told me that it's just needed and letter like an agreement between debconf/debian and ISIC 18:55:57 <leogg> moray, yes, that's an important one 18:55:59 <moray> also whether they will have any legal risk from doing this 18:55:59 <n0rman> and that¿'s it 18:56:13 <moray> n0rman: great 18:56:14 <gwolf> ok... So, I'll move to the next (sorely needed!) topic 18:56:22 <gwolf> #topic DebConf11 Final Report final(?) status 18:56:27 <gwolf> xamanu: News? 18:56:45 <xamanu> n0rman: I think the proposal from moray is good and valid. we should confirm this with a lawyer.just to make sure. as well that you can not get into trouble 18:56:53 <xamanu> I'm still waiting for some texts! 18:56:59 <xamanu> I'm still waiting for some texts! It is a pitty that they are still not completed. 18:57:05 <xamanu> As far as I know there are texts from nattie and darst missing. 18:57:06 <h01ger> xamanu, which? 18:57:07 <gwolf> xamanu: what are you missing? 18:57:13 <xamanu> Nattie promised me to send them over today. 18:57:23 <xamanu> Maybe both of them could tell us the status. In case they are here. 18:57:50 <h01ger> xamanu, which topics? 18:57:58 * h01ger hasnt seen darst online for quite some time 18:58:08 <moray> some time ago darst appeared to give a version of a text without numbers, do you have that? 18:58:12 * h01ger is prepared to wave to darst any minute now ;) 18:58:12 <gwolf> xamanu: darst sent a draft of the numbers and an introduction 18:58:17 <gwolf> let me look at my logs... 18:58:19 <moray> h01ger: nattie says he still exists fine 18:58:26 <xamanu> darst on budget 18:58:26 <h01ger> ah. cool. 18:58:55 <xamanu> not sure about nattie, she just told me last time I talked to her 18:59:10 <h01ger> nattie said she would join the meeting "maybe" 18:59:29 * h01ger pings nattie off-channel 18:59:37 <xamanu> Honestly I'm quite tired of asking constantly for texts since October. Anyway, when I get the texts I'll tex them within max. one week. 18:59:47 <moray> we are really really late on this now 18:59:57 <xamanu> I know, moray 18:59:58 <moray> not your fault, but please rush as much as you can 19:00:01 <gwolf> #info the final report is still pending the accounting part 19:00:02 <xamanu> The basic LaTeX structure is there, so it should be "only" assembling the texts, picking some pictures and making it nice. gwolf and tiago have offered help with that. So I might contact them when the texts are ready, so we can make a sprint to get all ready ASAP. 19:00:12 <gwolf> http://rkd.zgib.net/http/debconf/accounting-balances.txt 19:00:14 <h01ger> xamanu, try to write those texts yourself? 19:00:17 <xamanu> but first we need all texts 19:00:26 <gwolf> http://whiteboard.debian.net/73e9f7.wb 19:00:28 <moray> so someone doing layout "the next day" would be better than "within one week" 19:00:29 <xamanu> h01ger: are you kidding? 19:00:31 <h01ger> thats usually what has to be done. "alles muß man selber machen" ;) 19:00:33 <moray> someone should be doing layout already 19:00:34 <h01ger> xamanu, no 19:00:38 <aroundthfur> xamanu, h01ger which text are missing still? 19:00:40 <moray> and just leaving some gaps 19:00:44 <h01ger> we told you so, in banja luka! ;) 19:00:46 <moray> right 19:00:51 <h01ger> aroundthfur, budget + i dunno 19:00:56 <moray> usually we have to make up the texts, then get people to agree to put their name 19:01:06 <aroundthfur> h01ger, i can help with the budget 19:01:15 <h01ger> aroundthfur, cool! +hi! :) 19:01:22 <gwolf> xamanu: give us work ASAP! 19:01:23 <aroundthfur> but i don't think i am fit to do it all by myself! 19:01:27 <aroundthfur> h01ger, hi :) 19:01:28 <h01ger> aroundthfur, please do, see the urls gwolf just posted 19:01:36 <h01ger> aroundthfur, "just budget" 19:01:37 <gwolf> aroundthfur: look at the links I just sent 19:01:40 <h01ger> (at first... ;) 19:01:40 <gwolf> aroundthfur: (+hi!) 19:01:42 <moray> and can I repeat that we can always update the report later 19:01:53 <moray> the really urgent thing is to have *something* we can give out 19:01:55 <gwolf> moray: right. We have to get it published 19:02:12 <gwolf> #info aroundthfur shyly raises hand and volunteers to assemble the bits on the budget 19:02:12 <moray> even a version missing those texts, but typeset, would be useful 19:02:28 <aroundthfur> ok i will do as much as i can 19:02:40 <gwolf> #info even a version missing those texts, but typeset, would be useful. We can always update the report later. 19:02:42 <moray> and I know from experience that you can typeset a full magazine in an afternoon+evening, not a week 19:02:46 <aroundthfur> who should i poke about the budget things? darst? 19:02:59 <moray> (that's with complex layout, editing texts to fit pages etc., which isn't needed here) 19:03:00 <gwolf> aroundthfur: darst is sadly hard to poke lately 19:03:09 * h01ger nods moray 19:03:09 <h01ger> chemnitzer linuxtag in march is the next european/german opportunity to gather sponsors 19:03:24 <aroundthfur> gwolf, hmm ok i'll just poke some ppl around see who can help :) 19:03:30 <moray> h01ger: but we need a serious attempt starting e.g. next week 19:03:31 <gwolf> xamanu: So, when do you ping us to start working on the layout? 19:03:48 <gwolf> Is the layout in SVN/Git/RCS/Whatnot? 19:03:50 <xamanu> gwolf: we can start right now. I think I will have time on Sunday 19:03:50 <moray> h01ger: unfortunately I'm pretty busy (and not an expert on this), but people really need to get started 19:03:58 <xamanu> gwolf: it is all in SVN 19:04:07 <moray> h01ger: e.g. no one has even arranged the HP sponsorship, that they fortunately have budgetted for in advance 19:04:11 <gwolf> xamanu: please give the full location... 19:04:56 <h01ger> moray, ight 19:04:56 <moray> h01ger: but we are going to need a *lot* of emailing/phoning to get enough money 19:05:15 <moray> last year the sponsorship raised was not that much, beyond the government 19:05:22 * h01ger nods 19:05:24 <xamanu> svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-data/dc12/website 19:05:28 <moray> and I fear the RS government won't be giving this year :) 19:05:42 <h01ger> we should blog this. "sponsorsteam needs your help now" 19:06:00 <gwolf> xamanu: dc12/website for sure? 19:06:07 <h01ger> fundraising meeting, saturday, 12 UTC 19:06:18 <n0rman> xamanu: err debconf-data/reports/dc11 19:06:18 <moray> this can start even without levels, as usually it takes some work to find the right contact at a 'new' company 19:06:21 <h01ger> or maybe better, next weekend 19:06:32 <h01ger> (better for me) 19:06:33 <aroundthfur> h01ger, what can i do to help with sponsorship? or do you need more experienced ppl for that? 19:06:36 <xamanu> gwolf:no! sorry: svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-data/reports/dc11 19:06:44 <gwolf> #info we (xamanu, tiago, gwolf) will start working on assembling the texts in a LaTeX document, starting off svn.debian.org/svn/debconf-data/reports/dc11 19:06:45 <moray> aroundthfur: you can definitely help 19:06:46 <gwolf> thanks :) 19:06:51 <h01ger> aroundthfur, mail companies 19:06:54 <aroundthfur> moray, i hope so :) 19:06:54 <gwolf> #info EVERYBODY welcome to help! :) 19:07:00 <moray> aroundthfur: the team is rather moribund 19:07:02 <gwolf> Ok... So, there's a lot of work to do here 19:07:09 <gwolf> but we have to move to AOB 19:07:10 <n0rman> :) 19:07:20 <gwolf> #topic AOB/next meeting 19:07:21 <aroundthfur> h01ger, k i'll look into it over the weekend, then poke someone for more info if needed 19:07:22 <moray> h01ger: I'd vote 'this weekend' if you can possibly mange 19:07:23 <moray> manage 19:07:34 <n0rman> gwolf: before that, it would be helpful to set the date meeting 19:07:47 <gwolf> n0rman: look at the topic :) 19:07:52 <n0rman> I can join to the meeting this weekend :) 19:07:56 <gwolf> "next meeting" is the date for the enxt meeting 19:07:58 <aroundthfur> h01ger, tnx 19:08:00 * h01ger has invited aroundthfur to #debconf-sponsors (OFTC) - anybody else 19:08:01 <h01ger> ? 19:08:06 <gwolf> ah, the meeting to meet the LaTeXy stuff? 19:08:07 <h01ger> aroundthfur, dank dir! 19:08:11 <leogg> right n0rman, please read :) 19:08:11 <moray> h01ger: I can't help much, but I could discuss some points if it helps 19:08:15 <aroundthfur> h01ger, bitte schen! 19:08:18 <n0rman> gwolf: no, fundaraising 19:08:21 <h01ger> moray, +ping+pester, please 19:08:27 <aroundthfur> sch� 19:08:37 <gwolf> n0rman: Oh, of course! Well, I understood it'd not be a properly scheduled meeting 19:08:50 <gwolf> but talking it over with people on the channel+lists 19:08:55 <gwolf> but, be my guest :) 19:08:59 <n0rman> gwolf: we have a doubt about Debian Day and your suggestion of doing in a univerisity 19:09:28 <gwolf> n0rman: ..? 19:09:57 <n0rman> gwolf: h01ger if we finally decide Ticomo, it would be better to have Debian Day in a univerisity, but... what about video team? 19:10:06 <leogg> n0rman, we can take this on the list? I already answered gwolf 19:10:09 <n0rman> it is possible to move cameras to the univeristy and then back to Ticomo 19:10:17 <dam> Am I late for AOB? 19:10:28 <n0rman> leogg: yes, i read it 19:10:33 <moray> dam: we're in it 19:10:34 <gwolf> n0rman: I guess it would be without video coverage... But yes, there is not *that* much of a rush for that topic right now IMO 19:10:38 <gwolf> I'd go for the list as well 19:10:44 <gwolf> dam: bring your other business in 19:10:59 <dam> I haven't received travel reimbursement for DC11, is that normal? 19:11:06 <h01ger> does dc12 has a logo already? 19:11:09 <h01ger> AOB? 19:11:09 <h01ger> next meeting? 19:11:28 <gwolf> dam: It's not normal. But it's also AFAIK beyond this team's powers 19:11:31 <leogg> h01ger, yes, it's on the wiki 19:11:41 <gwolf> dam: Let us close the meeting, and then we can start talking about it :) 19:11:45 <n0rman> h01ger: yes, didn't you get the dc12 sticker in DC11? 19:11:57 <gwolf> So, next meeting is... In one month? Less? 19:12:05 <leogg> n0rman, I didn't get any stickers :( 19:12:14 <n0rman> leogg: I just have one on my computer 19:12:15 <gwolf> I'd prefer not doing more Doodle polls, but settling on a fixed schedule 19:12:17 <gregoa> another question: is there already any timeline for penta/registration/cfp etc.? 19:12:23 <dam> gwolf: fair enough 19:12:28 <leogg> gwolf, two weeks? three max? 19:12:41 <moray> gwolf: I fear two weeks might make sense 19:12:50 <gwolf> Is Wednesday 18:00UTC OK? 19:12:52 <moray> yes 19:12:58 <leogg> yes 19:13:01 <xamanu> yes 19:13:03 <n0rman> yes 19:13:13 <moray> self-selecting, of course :) 19:13:16 <gwolf> #info next meeting: Two weeks from now, February 22, 18:00 UTC 19:13:17 <moray> but it's a 'sensible' timeslot 19:13:22 <gwolf> perfect. 19:13:24 <moray> compared to weekends etc. 19:13:33 <h01ger> debianday elsewhere sucks big time for videoteam 19:13:41 * h01ger has some lag here 19:13:41 <gwolf> gregoa: nope, not yet :-P 19:13:59 <h01ger> leogg, n0rman: thanks. got the sticker too :) 19:14:01 <moray> h01ger: right. on the hotel/debian day, we're currently looking for some options that are at all *possible* 19:14:10 <moray> we can worry about improving them after that 19:14:10 <leogg> :) 19:14:10 <gregoa> gwolf: I supposed so :) (might be an agenda item for one of the next meetings) 19:14:16 <gwolf> gregoa: surely :) 19:14:27 <gwolf> anyway... It's my privilege to tell you all that 19:14:29 <gwolf> #endmeeting