20:00:07 <Hydroxide> #startmeeting
20:00:18 <Hydroxide> welcome all
20:00:33 <Hydroxide> #topic Visa/Border issues status check with Frank
20:00:44 <moray> evening
20:00:57 <Hydroxide> so, iriefrank is our lawyer ... thanks for coming :) we'll get your part out of the way so that you don't have to stay for the whole thing, though you're certainly welcome to
20:01:23 <Hydroxide> #topic status of various legal/anecdotal/answers
20:01:45 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: what have you found out so far about the various questions we asked you on tapril 29?
20:01:57 <Hydroxide> http://meetbot.debian.net/meetbot/debconf-nyc.20090430_0000.html has the minutes from there
20:01:58 <iriefrank> i have a few agenda items, all followups from previous conversations, that i didn't manabge to get on to the wiki before the meeting
20:02:05 <Hydroxide> oh, well go ahead with those then
20:02:08 <Hydroxide> #chair iriefrank
20:02:14 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: feel free to use #topic to set the topic
20:02:23 <Hydroxide> and #info, #agreed, #action as appropriate
20:02:45 * Hydroxide yields to iriefrank
20:03:54 <iriefrank> #info we had an informative experience with a developer in latin america who got a prompt interview.  we ran through the process, prepared an invitation letter that will be a model for a form letter
20:05:00 <MrBeige> great
20:05:17 <MrBeige> but it got denied...
20:06:07 <schultmc> MrBeige: wasn't that a different developer?
20:06:20 <iriefrank> no there has only been one, afaik
20:06:25 <iriefrank> that i've worked with, at least
20:06:35 <MrBeige> how could his application have been improved ?
20:06:45 <schultmc> iriefrank: I thought you worked with someone from Venezuela
20:06:58 <Hydroxide> schultmc: don't say too many details here
20:07:02 <Hydroxide> schultmc: but, yes, latin america
20:07:03 <MrBeige> schultmc: ah, the recent email to -discuss was a different person
20:07:25 <schultmc> Hydroxide: I'm trying not to but wanted to clarify that MrBeige is thinking of someone else
20:07:28 <iriefrank> right, ostensibly because he didn't have enough ties to the country. we don't know how much documentation he presented, but this really drives home that we have to emphasize the importance of providing documentation like bank statements and school degree programs
20:07:28 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: in case you missed the recent email to -discuss from an el salvadoran developer:
20:07:37 <iriefrank> yes i did, could you sent it to me
20:07:40 <Hydroxide> http://lists.debconf.org/lurker/message/20090711.031722.344d2351.en.html
20:07:46 <Hydroxide> it's public, so I can just give the link
20:07:53 <iriefrank> great
20:07:57 <bgupta> MrBeige: I have a bunch of assorted notes on "Why NYC great" After meeting.. can we touch bases?
20:08:04 <iriefrank> i'll read it in a moment here
20:08:19 <Hydroxide> ok. summary: he was from el salvador and flying via the US to dc9. the US denied him a transit visa
20:08:20 <MrBeige> iriefrank: how much does school enrollment count for "ties to the home country" ?
20:09:35 <moray> I'm confused -- did the person working with iriefrank get denied as well as the person MrBeige meant from the list?
20:09:36 <iriefrank> MrBeige, not much but perhaps now we can, if possible, encourage people to get more specific documentation that might be persuasive. perhaps letters from a faculty sponsor detailing a course of study
20:09:46 <MrBeige> moray: yes, both were denied
20:09:51 <moray> right
20:10:19 <iriefrank> unfortunately young people are looked at especially closely
20:10:23 <Hydroxide> moray: the person iriefrank was working with plans to try again though, since he now has more evidence of his ties to his home country than he did before
20:10:38 <MrBeige> #info being in school does not count much for a visa, however, perhaps this can be helped by extra details on course of study from faculty sponsors, etc
20:11:02 <Hydroxide> #info many of our developers are young people, who unfortunately are looked at especially closely by US visa officers
20:12:18 <iriefrank> so we've had one runthrough and the pace is about to pick up
20:12:21 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: what else is on your agenda? and we need to figure out some solution for our young latin american friends (especially salavadoran, venezuelan, colombian, etc)
20:12:24 <Hydroxide> yes
20:12:33 <Hydroxide> definitely will pick up the pace soon
20:13:42 <iriefrank> well in no particular order, * setting up email contact address for legal help; * going over what you need for the presentation and when you need it; * finding someone to go through the ESTA as a test case
20:13:54 <iriefrank> but first, answers to questions from april
20:14:03 <Hydroxide> ok
20:14:26 <MrBeige> ah, we should add, "is adding info to the web page via svn secure/controlled enough for legal advice"
20:14:43 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: yes, that's on the wiki already
20:14:55 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: ok
20:14:56 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: website as well as presentation
20:15:57 <iriefrank> so let's start with the e-mail address?
20:16:32 <MrBeige> sure
20:17:00 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: ok. we can give you a forwarding alias @debconf.org, though if we're doing visa@debconf.org we should wait one or two more weeks. dc10-visa@debconf.org or similar could be more immediate
20:17:22 <Hydroxide> (the one/two weeks is because some spanish visa issues for dc9 are still being worked through)
20:17:49 <MrBeige> is it ok/good to have a "front desk" to screen people to make sure that they are real developers/attendees, before fowarding them to you (and then you communicate directly with them) ?
20:18:08 <iriefrank> i set up dc10visa@bynumlaw.net to receive inquiries from attendees, i'll leave the debconf.org forwarding address to your judgment
20:18:53 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: great. MrBeige's suggestion would waste less of your time, but may or may not be optimal from an attorney/client privilege perspective. that's your call
20:19:08 <iriefrank> MrBeige, i feel confident in my ability to screen them, and you can fwd the messages to your own box as well to keep an eye on them, but if you are more comfortable screening outright (more work for you, of course) that's fine with me too
20:19:45 <MrBeige> iriefrank: fake emails to the address for DC9 became a big problem (though part of that is that he responded to them instead of silently ignoring them)
20:19:52 <Hydroxide> in that case, maybe have it forward to me + MrBeige + iriefrank?
20:20:03 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: s/big/nonzero/ I'd say
20:20:14 <iriefrank> Hydroxide, im not so worried about a/c privilege issues for just an initial request for a consultation, as long as we make clear by the address what details not to include
20:20:18 <Hydroxide> oh, well, yeah, they started harassing him by phone, but they had his phone number
20:20:22 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: ok then
20:20:25 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: I might agree with you if they didn't start calling him, too
20:20:30 <Hydroxide> yeah, see above
20:20:39 <Hydroxide> we shouldn't publicize a phone number until the screening has passed :)
20:20:50 <Hydroxide> s/publicize/give applicants/
20:20:54 <iriefrank> yeah, and i run a law office. crazy calls come in, it's life
20:21:01 <MrBeige> that's probably another good reason to have the main address be @debconf.org, and then after sending that can reply from @bynumlaw.net
20:21:24 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: ok :) so does it sound good to have initial inquiries go to @debconf.org and then forward to me + MrBeige + you?
20:21:32 <Hydroxide> at the address you mentioned
20:21:47 <Hydroxide> that we way can be aware of requests and ping you if necessary
20:22:13 <Hydroxide> and you can reply if it's not someone emailing from cameroon misspelling the name of debconf :)
20:22:14 <iriefrank> yes that sounds great, as long as we make clear on the page listing the address to leave out case details until when an attorney (me, or another volunteer) calls or emails them so to preserve privileges
20:22:17 <MrBeige> I don't know if I per se need to be included, it might be a good tiem to start expanding our number of volunteers
20:22:37 <Hydroxide> ok. well I'll be included then, and we can add a third person
20:22:47 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: can you say what "case details" would be?
20:23:00 <MrBeige> (of course I don't mind doing it, i'm just looking for places where I am not needed, so that we can pull others in)
20:23:45 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: and in the case you've worked on so far, I've had to see the private details of the person to sign the invitation letter. is that going to be a problem in future cases for privilege reasons? should I have been less in the loop?
20:24:29 <Hydroxide> #topic email address for visa stuff (already being discussed)
20:25:48 <iriefrank> Hydroxide, in the future you likely will be less involved for practical and for privilege reasons but not that much less.  i imagine that i'll send you a name, you'll see if s/he's legit and that'll be it, no?
20:26:15 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: ok, so you'll just modify the form letter and send it out with my signature then? that's fine.
20:27:05 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: might need to be someone other than me since I won't be SPI Secretary after August most likely
20:27:14 <Hydroxide> but I can tell you if they're legit, certainly
20:27:29 <Hydroxide> and I'll still be on the board. anyway, we can discuss this later
20:27:47 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: time to #topic your next agenda item?
20:28:11 <iriefrank> or you can send it out, either way.  to make it clean we could get you and spi to sign a limited power of attorney. i'll put this down as an item.
20:28:25 <Hydroxide> ok. either way. I'll still be on the SPI board
20:28:31 <Hydroxide> we'll talk offline about the mechanics
20:28:39 <Hydroxide> (probably online, but you know what I mean)
20:28:40 <iriefrank> #topic getting someone to go through the ESTA process as a testcase
20:29:08 <iriefrank> #info it would be helpful to find someone in a visa waiver country to go through the process early and see how smoothly it goes
20:29:11 <Hydroxide> moray: ^^^
20:29:28 <Hydroxide> I discussed this with moray before - he found one of the questions to seemingly have inaccurate wording
20:29:42 <Hydroxide> moray: have you proceeded any further?
20:29:44 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: we could use the chance to invite people to my apartment! (inside joke)
20:29:48 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: haha
20:29:54 <moray> there was a question that didn't make sense, yes
20:30:00 <moray> but that wasn't what was blocking me
20:30:20 <Hydroxide> (for those who don't know, moray has UK citizenship)
20:30:34 <moray> the block was a slight concern that applying now while I'm living in France might flag me up marginally more than if I apply from the UK
20:30:52 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: thoughts on that?
20:31:20 <iriefrank> Hydroxide, no but i know where to ask to find out. i'll make a note
20:31:28 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: thanks
20:31:50 <Hydroxide> moray, iriefrank: if we want a test case before the dc9 presentation, should we find someone else?
20:32:14 <iriefrank> the more early testcases the better, it think but we should start with one and go through the questions
20:32:41 <moray> Hydroxide: well, I was just a bit concerned about the combination of not actually planning to travel soon, possibly already marked as questionable on their database, not living in country of citizenship
20:33:16 <moray> and I'm pretty likely to change countries before dc9 (not that I know yet where to)
20:33:20 <moray> er, dc10
20:33:28 <iriefrank> moray, off the top of my head it doesn't seem to be a problem. we could try and see
20:33:29 <moray> in which case I guess I'd need to re-do it anyway?
20:33:35 <iriefrank> moray, right
20:33:52 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: does he need to re-do it if he changes his residence country?
20:33:59 <moray> iriefrank: I'm not concerned about it not working as such, but about having another black mark against me in their database for ever :)
20:34:34 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: he's been asked before about his trips to syria and iran and such, though he's also been allowed into the US in those cases
20:35:14 <iriefrank> i don't think changing residence will be grounds for requiring him to reapply, but i'll make a note to check
20:35:25 <Hydroxide> "A: Yes, there are instances when a new travel authorization via ESTA would be required.  If you have acquired a new passport or have had a change in name or other identifying biographical information, a new application must be submitted.
20:35:29 <Hydroxide> In addition, if your destination address or itinerary should change after your authorization has been approved, you may easily update that information through the ESTA Web site.  The ESTA application may be updated to reflect the itinerary for each trip.
20:35:33 <Hydroxide> ESTA approvals will typically be granted for a period of two years or until the applicant’s passport expires, whichever is sooner.  ESTA will provide validity dates upon approval of the application."
20:35:38 <Hydroxide> that's from a FAQ about ESTA on www.dhs.gov
20:35:46 <Hydroxide> so it looks like just residence isn't reason enough to change - it's not identifying biographical info
20:36:42 <Hydroxide> anyway, I'm trying to figure out if we should try to find another pre-dc9 test case besides moray
20:36:55 <Hydroxide> (or during dc9 - the presentation is late in the conference)
20:37:04 <Hydroxide> if it works for moray that's a very positive sign :)
20:37:45 <iriefrank> Hydroxide, a testcase soon would be great but frmo my end it need not be before dc9
20:38:28 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: I was thinking for purposes of including a first-hand account in the presentation, but we can dump that idea
20:39:00 <iriefrank> Hydroxide, it's up to you. i'd be happy to do one very soon
20:39:06 <Hydroxide> ok
20:39:20 <Hydroxide> I'll ask around unless moray decides to move forward in that timeframe
20:39:24 <Hydroxide> next topic item?
20:39:35 <moray> I was actually a bit surprised that the ESTA stuff doesn't ask about other travels, given they care about that
20:39:46 <moray> but anyway
20:39:55 <Hydroxide> moray: I think they don't, as much. this is just to replace the I-94W in the long run, mostly
20:40:00 <iriefrank> ok so who will write the email asking for a testcase? or will you just pick people you know
20:40:11 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: I was going to ask among debconf team members :)
20:40:23 <iriefrank> ok great
20:40:26 <moray> Hydroxide: right, just seems a bit pointless to leave that check until the border when you're filling in a visa-like form in advance anyway
20:40:50 <Hydroxide> moray: yeah. they're getting rid of the I-94W in the long term in favor of ESTA, but those wheels of change move slowly :)
20:41:22 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: let's move on to the next agenda item
20:41:42 <Hydroxide> moray: oh, I see what you mean. right. anyway...
20:42:22 <iriefrank> #topic legal portion of dc9 presentation
20:43:00 <iriefrank> it seems like the tone of the materials for the presentation should aim to truthfully reassure people about the process
20:43:04 <Hydroxide> yes
20:43:11 <iriefrank> and encourage them to participate and do it early
20:43:18 * Hydroxide nods
20:43:43 <MrBeige> yes, but not say so much that they get scared/mad (like I lerned from feedback after my first draft)
20:44:09 <iriefrank> so i'll put down to get some statistics about approvals in the VWP
20:44:16 <Hydroxide> certainly from a numerical standpoint, most dc9 attendees will be VWP nationals, but we should address the visa process too
20:44:34 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: great.
20:45:11 <iriefrank> so i'll just write some bullet points with statistics and touching on the substantive law and finishing with the support that will be available
20:45:23 <iriefrank> when will you need that by, and what else should i include
20:45:43 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: great. do you want to commit it directly to our svn (it's latex-beamer) or do you want to email it to one of us (or the list) for us to incorporate?
20:46:14 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: well, the presentation is the 29th of this month, and I'll have more time to work on it during debcamp than debconf - debcamp goes from the 16th to the 23rd
20:46:18 <iriefrank> better for me to email it to you. i'm not quite good with latex
20:46:20 <Hydroxide> ok
20:46:43 <iriefrank> oh but beamer looks easy, i might try it in that format
20:46:51 <Hydroxide> so yeah, it is easy
20:47:01 <iriefrank> ok i'll do it in that format
20:47:19 <Hydroxide> great. if you want svn write access, talk to me after the meeting, otherwise email it to us
20:47:43 <Hydroxide> I can give you the public svn read url too: svn://svn.debian.org/debconf-data/dc10/presentation/
20:47:53 <iriefrank> great
20:48:19 <Hydroxide> ok. as for stuff to include, anything that will reassure people and also help them present their visa applications in the best way possible
20:48:23 <Hydroxide> though we'll still encourage them to work with you
20:48:25 <iriefrank> Hydroxide, let's say i'll get it to you by this friday at the latest?
20:48:29 <iriefrank> july 17th?
20:48:34 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: that would be wonderful
20:49:08 <Hydroxide> #action iriefrank will email Hydroxide with the legal parts of the dc10 presentation by friday, july 17th
20:49:14 <Hydroxide> great
20:49:30 <iriefrank> and i'll watch/attend the presentation via irc
20:49:58 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: that would be very helpful. it's noon NYC time / 11am CDT on the 29th
20:50:15 <iriefrank> oops, i'll be taking the bar exam
20:50:25 <iriefrank> i'll catch up afterwards
20:50:28 <Hydroxide> heh :< that takes priority of course :)
20:50:30 <Hydroxide> good luck
20:50:33 <iriefrank> thanks :)
20:50:46 <iriefrank> so last topic i think is
20:50:54 <iriefrank> #topic website progress
20:51:14 <bgupta> assuming you have the latest copy of BarBri commmited to memory?
20:51:17 <Hydroxide> yeah. we should have some suitable visa/legal information on the website
20:51:23 <iriefrank> much of the presentation material can go straight to the website, we can get a basic page up by the 29th
20:51:27 <iriefrank> or a few basic pages
20:51:37 <iriefrank> and build from there using our experience
20:51:54 <iriefrank> we don't have to limit it to lawyers only
20:51:57 <Hydroxide> ok, great
20:52:00 <iriefrank> i'll just keep a close eye on changes
20:52:05 <iriefrank> and the page itself, of course
20:52:14 <Hydroxide> even as is, it will only be writeable by people who are involved with debconf stuff
20:52:36 <iriefrank> ok that's cool. is it writeable for me? i'm not sure ive even tried
20:52:39 <Hydroxide> (which can expand as necessary as more people get involved)
20:52:54 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: I'm not sure, but the same svn write access for the presentation will get you website write access
20:53:12 <iriefrank> are we talking http://wiki.debconf.org/
20:53:12 <bgupta> Hydroxide, MrBeige: I have not heard back from posting to the NYLUG mailing list, regarding a designer. I sent a follow up earlier today... This week I will expand my search to include other groups.
20:53:23 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: no, we're talking http://debconf10.debconf.org/ :)
20:53:37 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: wiki.debconf.org is indeed open to all
20:53:58 <Hydroxide> bgupta: great
20:54:09 <Hydroxide> bgupta: use #info please. though we're focusing on legal stuff right now
20:55:35 <iriefrank> ok i'll email Hydroxide offline about svn write access
20:56:19 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: start by creating an alioth account at http://alioth.debian.org/ and then go to http://alioth.debian.org/projects/debconf-data/ and click Request to join at the bottom-right
20:56:23 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: that's most of it
20:56:30 <iriefrank> ok
20:56:43 <iriefrank> is there anything else? that's pretty much everything i wanted to talk about
20:56:58 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: I think so. btw a Norwegian debian developer is willing to be a test case
20:57:02 <Hydroxide> for ESTA
20:57:47 <iriefrank> great! have him/her email me and we'll get started
20:57:59 <Hydroxide> your visas address then?
20:58:17 <iriefrank> yeah
20:58:56 <Hydroxide> ok
20:59:08 <Hydroxide> iriefrank: thanks for attending
20:59:10 <Hydroxide> non-legal stuff now
20:59:24 <iriefrank> thanks all!
21:00:11 <Hydroxide> #topic SEAS summary email
21:00:16 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: can you explain this?
21:00:22 * MrBeige has been working on this
21:00:38 <MrBeige> We need two emails to send to the director of corporate and community affairs:
21:00:46 <MrBeige> #info We need two emails to send to the director of corporate and community affairs:
21:01:09 <MrBeige> #info #1 - description of what DebConf is about (like what we've sent out so far), describing why SEAS should support us
21:01:32 <MrBeige> Dana Vlcek will send this to his bosses and when it's approved, then he can spend some time helping us
21:01:43 <MrBeige> which is a good thing, gets us much more official support
21:02:10 <MrBeige> #info #2 - a summary to Vlcek describing what support we've already gotten promissed
21:02:32 <MrBeige> http://whiteboard.debian.net/seas-summary_65303d.wb is #1
21:02:37 <MrBeige> http://whiteboard.debian.net/seas-info_d549e9.wb is #2
21:02:48 <MrBeige> so, everyone feel free to edit
21:03:01 <Hydroxide> great, thanks
21:03:13 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: can you let people know when you're planning to send it?
21:03:29 <MrBeige> I'll send tonight or tomorrow before 9am
21:03:40 <Hydroxide> so please help ASAP :)
21:03:46 <Hydroxide> next item
21:03:54 <Hydroxide> #topic Logo selection
21:04:02 <bgupta> MrBeige the second link appears to have no text?
21:04:11 <MrBeige> bgupta: yes, second hasn't been started yet
21:04:27 <Hydroxide> ok
21:04:28 <MrBeige> I could use the most help filling in the little bits of the first one
21:04:33 <MrBeige> the second one I can do since I know it all well
21:04:52 <Hydroxide> http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/DebConf10/LogoContest
21:05:05 <Hydroxide> let's pick one of those as our logo
21:05:24 <bgupta> I gave my feedback a few days ago? It seems to have been ignored?
21:05:27 <MrBeige> (there is much low-hanging fruit on the first URL for the drafts)
21:06:03 <bgupta> I emailed list?
21:07:11 <Hydroxide> bgupta: ignored, no. it's more that nobody else had the time to do the work to implement your ideas. that's the sort of thing that's usually done by the person who wants to see it done
21:07:26 <Hydroxide> we're all similarly busy :)
21:07:42 <bgupta> Then a comment saying as much would have been appreciated. THanks
21:08:29 <moray> bgupta: I think it's hard for anyone to know to reply that, having no way to be sure that everyone else *is* going to be too busy
21:08:33 <Hydroxide> bgupta: it's just the default for all debconf/debian stuff when someone isn't specifically assigned to a task... it's nothing personal. please don't take it as a slight against you
21:08:49 <Hydroxide> and what moray said, yeah
21:10:07 <Hydroxide> are we okay with choosing a logo now? we do need something to proceed with for the promotional items
21:10:22 <bgupta> OK then, are those tweaks an option? What do other poeople think of my ideas?
21:10:41 <MrBeige> bgupta: I think we are all fine with tweaks, if they can get done in time
21:10:44 <moray> well, I'd be fine with a couple of days for more tweaks, but I agree it makes sense to choose the basic design now
21:10:49 <bgupta> If you guys don't think they make sense, fine, I will drop.
21:11:06 <moray> bgupta: I think it's hard for people to agree or not without seeing a version
21:12:09 * MrBeige is fine with anything
21:12:17 <Hydroxide> schultmc: you there?
21:12:33 <schultmc> Hydroxide: yes
21:12:40 <Hydroxide> schultmc is leaving for debconf9 on the 22nd
21:13:01 <Hydroxide> and if we want the promotional handouts to be at his place in time for him to bring them
21:13:23 <Hydroxide> then we probably shouldn't order them much past this friday
21:13:26 <moray> you could potentially order them straight to DebConf, but yes
21:13:40 <bgupta> In 6 days?
21:13:44 <Hydroxide> moray: right, though that would cost more
21:13:51 <bgupta> ok
21:13:58 <moray> Hydroxide: not if you ordered them from somewhere over there
21:14:10 <Hydroxide> bgupta: but we need to allow time for someone to take the eventual logo and turn it into a promo handout
21:14:17 <Hydroxide> moray: true
21:14:22 <Hydroxide> moray: then we'd have to pay in euros :)
21:14:37 <Hydroxide> but, ok
21:14:45 <Hydroxide> if we go that route, it's still cheap enough
21:15:02 <Hydroxide> I'm just a bit hesitant to delay the decision because we aren't likely to have another irc meeting before the presentation
21:15:28 <Hydroxide> and they're almost all the same basic design, as are the tweaked versions
21:15:28 <MrBeige> AOL @ not delaying
21:15:45 <moray> Hydroxide: I'd definitely suggest choosing the basic logo, I can just see the point in giving people a day or whatever to propose any final tweaked versions
21:15:56 <MrBeige> why not select the one we want, and say "if someone does xxx tweaks, we'll do that, if it happens on time"
21:15:59 <moray> with the assumption that whatever is chosen now is the default
21:16:04 <Hydroxide> ok
21:16:17 <Hydroxide> which one do you all like?
21:16:34 <moray> now everyone votes for their own version? ;)
21:16:45 <Hydroxide> moray: most of them are collaborations among a few poeple
21:16:51 <Hydroxide> moray: I don't think we have "own versions" :)
21:17:24 * MrBeige any blue and gold
21:18:28 <moray> I vote for http://wiki.debconf.org/wiki/Image:DC10p6a.svg though I'm open to more changes, and I don't think it should be my decision as a non-local anyway :)
21:19:06 <MrBeige> I like moray's one, but maybe get valessio to tweak the "10" a bit
21:19:10 <moray> (but I think valessio's basic thing is the best)
21:19:46 <Hydroxide> moray: basic thing?
21:20:12 <schultmc> The green and gold has grown on me
21:20:34 <moray> Hydroxide: like, compared to the completely different designs from others, I prefer his
21:20:52 <Hydroxide> ok, right
21:21:23 <Hydroxide> heh, I hope we didn't permanently scare him away from the dc10 team...
21:21:45 <Hydroxide> anyway, can we agree on DC10p6a without objection then?
21:22:15 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: yes, and if valessio can fix up the "10" quickly, then (likely) go with that...
21:22:17 <schultmc> no objection from me, although I'd suggest a tweak to the 10's font
21:22:28 <Hydroxide> with until, say, 21 UTC == 5PM EDT on Tuesday for tweaks?
21:22:43 <Hydroxide> (at 23:59:59 UTC I'm likely to be focusing on packing rather than email)
21:23:07 <schultmc> http://gotprint.net/g/showStaticPage.do?page=turnaround_time.html
21:23:19 <schultmc> that might be too late
21:23:28 <moray> schultmc: the spacing on "New York City" is also quite bad, though bearable
21:24:01 <schultmc> Hydroxide: round corners also adds 3 days to the turnaround time
21:24:11 <Hydroxide> schultmc: would 23:59:59 UTC on Monday work then? and maybe we should drop the round corners
21:24:23 <moray> schultmc: do they cut them off by hand?
21:24:25 <schultmc> Hydroxide: that'd work - we could also do rush shipping
21:24:40 <schultmc> moray: I don't know - the turnaround time just says there's additional time for those
21:24:41 <Hydroxide> schultmc: rush printing
21:24:56 <Hydroxide> schultmc: rush printing = 2 business days + 1 more for round corners
21:25:14 <schultmc> Hydroxide: yep - that'd work, I'd still want to place the order ASAP
21:25:34 <Hydroxide> schultmc: but since we need to allow time for design after choosing logo, let's say 23:59:59 UTC Monday as the logo tweak deadline?
21:25:35 * MrBeige wonders if we haven't ignored the bigger issue of the design for the card, instead of the logo itself...
21:25:41 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: I was about to address that ...
21:25:48 <schultmc> Hydroxide: sounds good to me
21:25:57 <moray> MrBeige: well, you only *need* the logo really
21:25:59 <Hydroxide> schultmc: and also use rush printing
21:26:02 <moray> the next thing would be dates
21:26:04 <moray> and you don't have those
21:26:12 <MrBeige> moray: very true
21:26:22 <moray> what other information can you usefully put on there?
21:26:26 <Hydroxide> is there anything else to put on the cards besides the logo? and does the promo handout idea even make sense?
21:26:45 <MrBeige> it would be cool
21:26:50 <MrBeige> and I agree it doesn't need much on it
21:26:50 <schultmc> it's not a bad idea and it's inexpensive
21:27:01 <moray> Hydroxide: I can see it as a nice idea to put a card in everyone's conference stuff
21:27:01 <schultmc> it could also serve a dual purpose
21:27:12 <schultmc> drum up attendance for DC10 and the presentation
21:27:26 * MrBeige will contribute money for it
21:27:27 <Hydroxide> maybe put a lightened columbia campus background behind the logo
21:27:28 <moray> Hydroxide: in that scenario you could also have some one-line 'see you next year at:'
21:27:43 <Hydroxide> and then some other NYC background on the reverse?
21:27:54 <Hydroxide> moray: hard to include it in everyone's bag if it's not there until the start of the main debconf
21:27:58 <MrBeige> what if it became a focal point for anti-US sentiment?  "DebConf10 card burning" ?
21:28:03 <moray> Hydroxide: if you get double-sided photo printing for this price then yes
21:28:06 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: woo publicity :)
21:28:17 <Hydroxide> moray: we do get double-sided for $reasonable
21:28:20 <moray> doing some t-shirts might be as useful though
21:28:35 <schultmc> moray: we've got the I Debian NY shirts
21:28:37 <Hydroxide> moray: schultmc and I will also wear our caps at the presentation
21:28:40 <Hydroxide> schultmc: oh you got a shirt?
21:28:53 <schultmc> Hydroxide: yes
21:29:23 <Hydroxide> ah
21:29:47 <moray> Hydroxide: anyway, just having a live website with a logo (and with useless dc9 information commented out ;) will already look surprising/good to people
21:29:53 <Hydroxide> yes ;)
21:30:16 <Hydroxide> ok
21:30:31 <Hydroxide> I think we can get the order out on the 16th or 17th
21:30:35 <Hydroxide> although that's cutting it close
21:30:46 <Hydroxide> who has time to turn logo into promo card on tuesday?
21:31:01 <Hydroxide> and place the order
21:31:08 <schultmc> I can place the order
21:31:20 <Hydroxide> the other part is harder :)
21:31:21 <schultmc> I don't know how to make a CMYK image though
21:31:38 <Hydroxide> oh they need cmyk?
21:32:07 <schultmc> Hydroxide: that's what it says - I can ask my friend who's used them since I doubt he knows what CMYK is
21:32:15 <moray> I fear CMYK on Debian sucks still :)
21:32:41 <moray> but as you imply I suspect they don't really need it
21:32:50 <moray> I can't believe they expect people to supply colour separations etc.
21:33:45 <moray> and nowadays photos tend to be digital rather than from high-end scanners
21:33:47 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: do you hav etuesday time?
21:34:14 <moray> Tuesday is a holiday here; I have some other things to do, but can probably help
21:34:19 <Hydroxide> MrBeige: and/or monday night
21:34:23 <Hydroxide> moray: ah, cool
21:34:37 <moray> and Monday evening I was assuming some DebConf time anyway
21:34:49 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: I probabyl will have near zero time
21:34:58 <Hydroxide> moray: well, I meant monday evening NYC time but yeah
21:35:05 <Hydroxide> ok
21:35:06 <Hydroxide> I'll email list
21:35:08 <MrBeige> Hydroxide: it depends on how my teaching preps go, however, I would expect i won't
21:35:22 <Hydroxide> or do it myself
21:35:35 <Hydroxide> I think this meeting has gone on long enough and been productive enough ... shall we end it now?
21:35:40 <Hydroxide> we covered most topics
21:37:35 <Hydroxide> anyone? or is the meeting already over?
21:37:37 <Hydroxide> :)
21:37:56 <Hydroxide> ok then
21:38:02 <Hydroxide> #endmeeting