17:04:43 <isabela> #startmeeting ux team meeting
17:04:43 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Sep  7 17:04:43 2016 UTC.  The chair is isabela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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17:05:04 <isabela> alright, i sent the draft and i realize now that i listed PhilipL as Paul :S
17:05:07 <isabela> sorry
17:05:12 * flexlibris is lurking
17:05:13 <PhilipL> :) just sawthat
17:05:14 <isabela> i will fix that
17:06:08 <scouttle> Ok, first off I want to apologize for not having my act together. I owed Elio comments on his draft of the style guide and I did not send them until today.
17:06:42 <isabela> I was wondering if is still a good estimation to have it all together by friday to send the internal launch email
17:06:45 <scouttle> The good news is that he will have them, and we have enough time still to turn them around and get an updated draft out with the email with plenty of time before the Seattle meeting.
17:07:20 <scouttle> Right now I think that's a little optimistic. I should check with Elio, but I am wondering if Tuesday might be better.
17:07:36 <isabela> i am cool with that
17:07:39 <ame_e> I think Elio is planning on being in berlin this weekend
17:07:46 <ame_e> With whatever dev meeting is happening.
17:08:18 <ame_e> I'm not 100% sure the details, but that could be an option to at least introduce the idea
17:08:52 <scouttle> Ah, yes. Isa, do you think it will be ok if he test drives it with those folks before the email is send?
17:09:13 <isabela> alright, so y'all will send the (semi)final guideline for review to the ux list and then we will give ourselves till tuesday sept 13 to finish it and then send the internal launch email
17:09:14 <scouttle> Or do you think we should be sure to send the email beforehand so that he doesn't have to explain all the whys and hows?
17:09:40 <isabela> i think to have it with the email is good
17:09:46 <isabela> there is a lot of folks wondering about it
17:09:55 <ame_e> I have not added myslef to the wiki and don't know what's going on in Berlin this weekend.
17:10:53 <ame_e> I thought it was an unconference, but maybe there's a chance for some time to talk UX, like planned in advance? I don't know.
17:11:09 <PhilipL> I added myself to the list, but doesnt know it neither
17:11:46 <isabela> is elio aware of our tier 1 and tier 2 plan etc?
17:12:14 <scouttle> I don't think so.
17:12:17 <isabela> i just dont know if he is following all these discussions we are having on how to get the community to understand the context and set expectations of how this will be implemented
17:12:36 <isabela> and that will be most of what people will want to talk about if they see the guidelines
17:12:43 <scouttle> Yeah, I'm not sure whether he's been reviewing the meeting notes. I know he has been busy with Mozilla stuff recently.
17:12:48 <scouttle> Yes, agreed.
17:13:21 <isabela> for instance, karsten is someone who is organizing the berlin meeting and he also added a session for the seattle meeting to know more about it
17:13:26 <scouttle> As a newcomer to Tor, I'm not sure it makes sense to put all that on him to explain.
17:13:28 <isabela> because of all the metrics sites and logos
17:13:33 <isabela> (he leads the metrics team)
17:13:40 <scouttle> That makes sense.
17:13:51 <isabela> so i think is better to follow the launch plan we have
17:14:00 <karsten> (hello!)
17:14:15 <isabela> send the email, then have a session to define who should migrate now and how and who will do it latter etc
17:14:16 <scouttle> so, ask Elio to not share the style guide with Berlin peeps until the informational email has gone out?
17:14:20 <isabela> karsten: oi oi
17:14:28 <scouttle> hihi harsten
17:14:33 <scouttle> looking forward to meeting in Seattle
17:14:46 <karsten> yes, very much!
17:15:00 <isabela> well, since we wont have the guidelines till tuesday is unfortunate that it wont happen before berlin
17:15:03 <isabela> but it is what it is
17:15:06 <ame_e> Hello Karsten
17:15:26 <scouttle> well, it's possible that Elio may turn around my comments in time
17:15:39 <scouttle> but that would not provide much time for the UX team to review the styleguide
17:16:04 <scouttle> it's pretty simple, all things considered
17:16:27 <isabela> i got ok from folks on the list for the email draft
17:16:42 <scouttle> and we've already discussed the vast majority of the content. My comments to him right now are mostly around framing and layout.
17:16:51 <isabela> ok
17:17:01 <scouttle> So, if Elio can address my comments and we can get an updated version by Friday
17:17:11 <scouttle> would you all be comfortable sending the email then?
17:17:28 <scouttle> with the understanding that this will be just one version of an evolving style guide
17:17:43 <scouttle> and that we can always take time to make further tweaks during eg our next meeting?
17:18:01 <isabela> i think i would based on what i know from previous versions  (is hard without seeing it)
17:18:04 <PhilipL> I dont feel comfortable with saying anything without having seen the latest version
17:18:19 <eviction> infernal truth for all newcomers. breaking 11pm.
17:18:37 <scouttle> ok, PhillipL perhaps I share it with you too?
17:18:49 <PhilipL> btw: what does EOW mean? regarding the mail
17:19:04 <isabela> en of week
17:19:06 <isabela> end of week
17:19:11 <PhilipL> oh
17:19:34 <PhilipL> yes, send it to me please
17:20:01 <scouttle> ok, will do
17:20:06 <scouttle> are you comfortable with Invision?
17:20:21 <scouttle> I find it's a nice way to make comments, although it's not the most OSS-oriented platform :)
17:20:39 <PhilipL> i have no idea what invision is
17:20:55 <PhilipL> it is not a pdf file?
17:21:45 <scouttle> It is a PDF file. But I imported it into a platform that lets me make targeted comments on specific parts of the PDF that other people can easily reply to.
17:21:49 <scouttle> https://www.invisionapp.com/
17:22:23 <scouttle> Also happy to just send you a PDF. But the Invision file has my comments so you don't end up duplicating.
17:22:46 <PhilipL> there is no chance to export the invision file as a pdf with comments?
17:22:58 <scouttle> uhh let me check
17:23:44 <PhilipL> or is there a simple link to the invision file being displayed in the browser?
17:23:55 <PhilipL> do I need to download the invision app first?
17:24:37 <isabela> i think you can do it in the browser
17:24:43 <isabela> no need for the app
17:24:46 <scouttle> It's just displayed in the browser, no download / special software needed
17:24:53 <scouttle> I think I am able to download a PDF, testing now
17:24:57 <isabela> scouttle: can you copy me on that too?
17:25:07 <scouttle> on the PDF? or the Invision doc?
17:25:08 * isabela curious that's all
17:25:12 <isabela> invision
17:25:18 <isabela> :)
17:26:11 <PhilipL> sorry. just do what’s easier. send an invision link or a pdf file.
17:26:48 <isabela> cool, this way we can move faster with reviews etc and maybe we can 'ship it' before berlin meeting
17:26:56 <isabela> and folks can bomb elio with questions there :P
17:27:19 <scouttle> ok, Invision invitation sent to both of you
17:27:20 <isabela> but! hopefully people will leave some of those to seattle too
17:27:29 <isabela> otherwise 'poor elio'
17:27:30 <isabela> hahah
17:27:49 <scouttle> hee hee
17:28:06 <scouttle> While viewing Invision file, make sure you're in comment mode so the comments show up
17:28:27 <PhilipL> I need to login first?
17:28:46 <scouttle> I wouldn't think so? But maybe...
17:29:18 <PhilipL> seems the invitation isnt the easier way …
17:29:36 <scouttle> let me see what happens if I send you a direct link
17:29:49 <scouttle> if that doesn't work and you don't want to sign in, I'll send you the PDF with comments
17:31:33 <tdjb_> does the tor project still send out shirts for relay operators? i think my relay qualifies but i've never been notified and haven't seen a response to my e-mail from a few weeks back
17:32:31 <flexlibris> tdjb_, sorry, our Tor weather service hasn't been working properly
17:32:38 <flexlibris> i will msg you the person you can contact to get your tshirt
17:32:51 <tdjb_> awesome, thanks!
17:33:22 <PhilipL> thx scout. that works.
17:33:34 <isabela> cool
17:34:12 <scouttle> the direct link, PhilipL?
17:34:28 <scouttle> can you see all the screens or just the cover screen? and do you see the comments too?
17:35:32 <isabela> we should be on the comments tab right?
17:35:42 <scouttle> yes
17:35:54 <scouttle> do you see the pink circles of my comments?
17:36:17 <isabela> yes
17:37:13 <scouttle> ok isabela I just CCd you on the email thread with Elio checking in on whether he thinks Friday (ideally) or Tuesday (alternatively) is a reasonable goal to get changes turned around
17:37:35 <scouttle> I still need to take a final read through the email, which I am trying to do in parallel now
17:37:42 <PhilipL> i have access to 4 pages. and i can enable the comments
17:37:53 <isabela> awesome
17:38:09 <scouttle> PhilipL awesome
17:38:21 <scouttle> please both of you feel free to chime in with replies or add your own comments
17:38:23 <isabela> ok so i believe is 'review and give feedback asap' mode for us now?
17:38:28 <scouttle> yes
17:38:49 <isabela> ok i have to go to the bank after this meeting hehe but I will do once I am back :)
17:39:20 <scouttle> sounds good!
17:39:54 <scouttle> I have added my name in the pad. Is it ok if I make tweaks here and there to the email? Or shall I propose them over first?
17:40:08 <scouttle> (I changed Paul to Philip for example)
17:40:18 <isabela> PhilipL: can you do it today too? that way elio will have all feedback in for him to work on - if we can meet the friday deadline if not because he is crazy busy we do tuesday, but *we* should move fast to not delay him
17:40:28 <isabela> scouttle: hehe tx!
17:40:37 <PhilipL> yes, i'll do that today
17:40:38 <isabela> i dont know where i took paul from lol
17:41:18 <PhilipL> i agree with your comments i have read so far, scout. I'll see what I can add to it
17:41:31 <scouttle> great, thank you!
17:41:36 <isabela> alright
17:41:39 <scouttle> Isa on the letter: at the end it says...
17:42:06 <scouttle> "all official Tor websites (examples) and products (Tor Browser)." I worry that makes it sound like Browser is the only official product, could you add some other examples?
17:42:46 <isabela> maybe we shoudl rephrase it to 'productions that are under stable releases'
17:42:47 <isabela> instead?
17:43:07 <isabela> ops
17:43:10 <isabela> products
17:43:11 <isabela> not productions
17:43:12 <PhilipL> dont we have any other examples?
17:43:42 <scouttle> just changed to "stable products", does that work?
17:43:52 <scouttle> are there other examples we can add?
17:44:19 <isabela> hmm orbot is stable
17:44:35 <isabela> the rest are not stable yet like tor messenger or tor mail or tor browser for android (orfox)
17:44:39 <isabela> afaik
17:44:42 <scouttle> ok
17:45:10 <isabela> but these are examples only
17:45:38 <scouttle> yes, agreed
17:45:40 <isabela> we should define what should be on tier 1 at the meeting because i dont want to block someone who has a beta or alfa project and want to adopt the guideline right away
17:45:44 <scouttle> I added "e.g." to make that more clear
17:45:56 <isabela> thanks!
17:45:57 <scouttle> indeed
17:46:29 <isabela> and yes, to your question - please add changes directly in the pad :) I am cool with that
17:47:01 <scouttle> ok, I have a few more tweaks and then I think I'm done
17:47:10 <isabela> cool!
17:48:02 <scouttle> Ok, I think I'm done!
17:48:14 <scouttle> Ok, so Isa you're on the email with Elio
17:48:25 <isabela> cool
17:48:26 <scouttle> so you will hopefully see his reply as soon as he makes it
17:48:33 <isabela> thanks
17:48:34 <isabela> ok - we have around 13 more minutes - anything else we should chat before we close the meeting?
17:48:45 <scouttle> and if you both get comments in invision then he should be in good shape to start improvements asap
17:48:56 <isabela> PhilipL: you coming to seattle?
17:49:05 <PhilipL> no i am not coming to seattle
17:49:06 <scouttle> are there any other outstanding things that we need before the next meeting, or before Seattle?
17:49:29 <isabela> i think the next meeting will be like a 'boom' since the launch email will be out hehe
17:49:49 <eviction> ask #tor-infernal
17:49:54 <isabela> actually!
17:50:32 <isabela> looking at the calendar I think linda will be joining our next meeting
17:50:50 <isabela> so we will have a lot to catch up
17:51:07 <ame_e> Do you mean 21 Sept? Or something else
17:51:18 <isabela> 21s
17:51:21 <isabela> 21st
17:51:39 <isabela> ok
17:52:01 <scouttle> cool
17:52:23 <isabela> are we good for now? should i stop the bot?
17:52:48 <scouttle> I think we're good! So so excited to see this finally ready to launch.
17:53:02 <isabela> !! indeed
17:53:09 <isabela> PhilipL ame_e ?
17:53:23 <PhilipL> !
17:53:33 <ame_e> Sorry - sure thing. I am really excited to see this go out in to the world
17:53:38 <ame_e> yes.
17:53:55 <isabela> cool! stopping the bot then
17:53:59 <isabela> #endmeeting