14:00:00 <karsten> #startmeeting Measurement Team meeting
14:00:00 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Sep  9 14:00:00 2015 UTC.  The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:00 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:07 <karsten> hi. who's here for the meeting?
14:01:48 <karsten> quick. in a few minutes I'll give the channel back to asn_ and dgoulet. ;)
14:02:45 <clv> here for measurement meeting ;)
14:02:48 <clv> hi!
14:02:55 <karsten> hi clv!
14:03:11 <karsten> that reminds me of the ticket you mentioned earlier..
14:03:45 <karsten> 04:13 #tor-dev: < clv> karsten: i have a couple of fixes for #16962 ... i'm not  sure which one fits better for what is needed
14:03:53 <karsten> what fixes do you have?
14:04:12 <karsten> (if you're okay with talking about it now while we wait for other folks.)
14:05:11 <clv> https://github.com/leivaburto/globe <- branches task-16962 and task-16962b
14:05:46 <clv> the first one shows alleged family and effective family in separated fields
14:06:02 <clv> the second merges them and keeps showing them as family
14:06:24 <karsten> neat. the second version is what I had in mind as simple fix.
14:06:34 <karsten> but making a distinction would be even better.
14:06:56 <clv> alright
14:07:02 <karsten> what do you think about displaying them in one list but change color (or something) for alleged vs. effective?
14:07:40 <clv> yeah, i think it's possible
14:07:47 <clv> is important to make the difference?
14:07:55 <clv> that was my doubt in the first place
14:07:56 <karsten> useful, yes.
14:08:01 <clv> okey
14:08:07 <karsten> because operators will notice when their settings are (partly) ineffective.
14:08:23 <karsten> tomlurge: here for the meeting? :)
14:08:40 <tomlurge> yep. hi!
14:08:48 <karsten> hi!
14:09:07 <clv> hi!
14:09:13 <karsten> clv: thanks for working on that ticket!
14:09:30 <karsten> clv: btw, did you see anything obviously wrong in the atlas patch?
14:09:49 <karsten> #16961
14:10:27 <karsten> (we really need to talk about focusing on either globe or atlas, to avoid having two tickets per onionoo change..)
14:10:47 <karsten> while we talk about this, let's make an agenda for today.
14:11:00 * karsten suggests a few things:
14:11:13 <karsten> 1) updated measurement roadmap
14:11:20 <karsten> 2) 1-1-1 task exchange
14:11:34 <karsten> 3) switch from wed 14 utc to thu 14 utc
14:11:52 <karsten> clv, tomlurge: please add more topics
14:12:06 <Sebastian> any dev mtg preparations maybe?
14:12:26 <karsten> 4) dev mtg preparations
14:12:29 <karsten> hi Sebastian!
14:12:40 <Sebastian> hi
14:13:03 <tomlurge> status reports of what we are working on?
14:13:15 <karsten> 0) status reports
14:14:11 <karsten> okay, sounds like a fine plan.
14:14:18 <karsten> let's start with
14:14:21 <karsten> 14:13:51 < karsten> 0) status reports
14:14:46 <karsten> what have you been working on since last week? who wants to go first?
14:15:07 <Sebastian> nothing for me in this space, sorry. I'll drop in later, holler if you need me
14:15:53 <tomlurge> maybe I start?
14:15:57 <karsten> please do!
14:16:07 <karsten> (sounds good, Sebastian.)
14:16:24 <tomlurge> I really really finished the map reduce job (ironed out a mean bug in a double loop). now need to get that fine data on the screen. settled for Backbone.js as webframework. now need to get the pieces together: MongoDb, D3, Node, Backbone…Going in circles on that…
14:16:43 <karsten> congrats!
14:17:04 <tomlurge> thanks :) even the documentation is halfway decent!
14:17:21 <karsten> very curious to see the result!
14:17:37 <tomlurge> ha haar…
14:17:52 <clv> nice
14:17:59 <clv> so you didn't go for angular at the end
14:18:00 <karsten> if you have something to try out for these folks, please share a link. now or next week or ...
14:18:29 * qbi is in the car. Will read backlog later.
14:18:44 <karsten> hi qbi! drive safely! ;)
14:18:54 <qbi> jo
14:18:57 <qbi> :)
14:19:09 <tomlurge> clv: no, i figured that my view logic is repetitive but very simple, so backbon eshould do it. plus it’s nearer to the metal so helps me improve my javascript skills
14:19:58 <tomlurge> karsten: I’m afraid I’ll be lucky if I have something interesting for the dev meeting
14:20:31 <karsten> make it tiny tiny, but it gets so much more real once that exists. :)
14:20:55 <clv> tomlurge: i need to improve my JS skills too, so let me know if i can help you with something
14:21:37 <karsten> cool. collaboration! :)
14:21:46 <tomlurge> karsten: yeah, definitely. but it’s hard to get all the pieces connected even for a toiny start. i’m really struggling with that.
14:21:59 <tomlurge> cvl: thanks!!!
14:22:18 <karsten> true.
14:22:26 <karsten> anything else you did since last week, tomlurge?
14:22:32 <karsten> and want to report here?
14:22:57 <tomlurge> nope. especially didn’t work on the Tor Measurement Tools Roadmap :(
14:23:06 <karsten> ah, no worries.
14:23:21 <karsten> clv: want to go next, or should I go first?
14:23:35 <clv> i'll go ;)
14:23:40 <karsten> great!
14:24:40 <clv> i've been working on erebus (SoP project) and did a fix for #16962 .. so i learned how to use and code on globe :D
14:25:16 <karsten> by the way, did you manage to build globe?
14:25:52 <karsten> I mean, you probably did, unless you tried out your changes somehow without building it..
14:25:56 <clv> on vagrant.. no, but on my system, with grunt and node, yes
14:26:01 <karsten> ah ok.
14:26:07 <karsten> any trouble with vagrant, or did you not try?
14:26:17 <karsten> I'm asking because isis had trouble with that a while back.
14:26:49 <clv> yes i had problems
14:27:12 <karsten> would you want to create a ticket for those?
14:27:35 <clv> the /vagrant folder was empty when i logged into the virtual machine
14:27:41 <karsten> no need to fix them, but it would be good to write them down somewhere so that somebody can fix them.
14:27:48 <karsten> oh.
14:27:57 <clv> i'm not sure if it was a problem on my machine (vbguest additions or something like that)
14:28:25 <karsten> we should try to figure that out. ticket?
14:28:57 <karsten> (I'm very carful not mess up my local configuration until we have a fix.)
14:28:57 <clv> alright, sounds good
14:29:05 <karsten> thanks!
14:29:31 <karsten> anything else to report?
14:30:02 <clv> well, and using globe made me notice that there is some very useful information i could later include on erebus...
14:30:18 <karsten> heh. nice!
14:30:21 <clv> so, it was a learning week :)
14:30:26 <clv> that's all
14:30:52 <karsten> is erebus going to contact onionoo, or is that information that's already available from the local/remote tor?
14:31:40 <clv> both
14:32:20 <karsten> ok :)
14:32:27 <karsten> so, what did I do since last week..
14:32:53 <karsten> I had some good discussions with atagar. one was about distinguishing between relay and bridge descriptors in metrics-lib.
14:33:05 <karsten> I created #17000 for that.
14:33:33 <karsten> I also moved the result of one of the last 1-1-1 task exchange sessions to tor-dev@
14:33:39 <karsten> subject "Let's identify which measurement-related tools need work when relays switch from RSA identities to ed25519 identities"
14:33:45 <Sebastian> thanks for that
14:33:54 <karsten> sure, thanks for asking the question.
14:34:07 <karsten> now I need to handle replies.
14:34:25 <karsten> and today I worked on the roadmap and made that more useful, I think.
14:34:47 <karsten> that's all. I'll tell you more about the roadmap under 1).
14:34:52 <karsten> 14:11:49 < karsten> 1) updated measurement roadmap
14:35:05 <karsten> (unless we missed someone in the status updates?)
14:35:29 <karsten> (please shout if we did!)
14:35:32 <karsten> so,
14:35:32 <karsten> https://people.torproject.org/~karsten/volatile/measurement-roadmap.pdf
14:35:52 <karsten> I changed the document structure a bit.
14:36:05 <karsten> and added more details to existing products.
14:36:33 <karsten> much of that is based on discussions with folks like atagar, iwakeh, ln5.
14:36:45 <tomlurge> huh! I’m in the center of it all  =8-[
14:37:11 <karsten> that doc is far from being done, but I hope that it will be useful in berlin.
14:37:37 <karsten> my guess is that we'll still improve it in berlin.
14:38:01 <karsten> tomlurge: you're right! not easy to reduce overlap between arrows. ;)
14:38:20 <clv> erebus is on that doc :D
14:38:33 <karsten> my plan is to add more details to sections 2 and 3 and then find a way to write something for 4.
14:38:50 <karsten> clv: it is! though it is on the edge to network team just like nyx.
14:39:03 <karsten> but it's good to include it here, I think.
14:39:25 <clv> yes, thnks!
14:39:51 <karsten> so, I'm mentioning this here, because feedback is still much appreciated.
14:40:19 <karsten> if people have a moment to read the doc and give feedback, that would be awesome!
14:40:47 <karsten> ok, how about we move to
14:40:50 <karsten> 14:13:03 < karsten> 4) dev mtg preparations
14:41:31 <karsten> two things come to mind here:
14:41:46 <karsten> there will be a retrospective of the team idea.
14:42:12 <karsten> it would be useful to think about what went well, what didn't go so well, and what we can do better.
14:42:59 <karsten> I think we're going to talk about that stuff anyway, but if everyone thinks about it beforehand they might have better feedback.
14:43:23 <tomlurge> karsten asked me to add a session about visualization to the meetings wiki. but I have to admit that I’m shy. I’d rather work on my code than send time and thought on preparung a session.
14:43:32 <karsten> something else would be the roadmap. I'm thinking about printing out these diagrams in din a2 or so and bring them to berlin.
14:43:59 <karsten> tomlurge: we can still announce that session if you feel like it's a good idea in berlin.
14:44:24 <karsten> tomlurge: though it wouldn't hurt to secretly prepare something for a session just in case there will be one.
14:44:33 <karsten> up to you, of course.
14:45:18 <tomlurge> hmhm, okay. as soon as i get the visionion thong rolling that might loosen my creativity versus the session thing
14:45:43 <tomlurge> I find your diagrams very helpful. good idea to print them out!
14:46:19 <karsten> I'm stealing^Wre-using that idea from isabela who brought printed diagrams to the last meeting. ;)
14:46:46 <karsten> what else can we do to make the meeting more useful?
14:46:51 <tomlurge> all reative work is 90%+ stolen
14:47:02 <tomlurge> reative === creative
14:47:14 <iron_> We've been discussing locating plaintiffs to bring suit on the issue of Brad Spengler of GRSecurity once he closes his derivative work (with some new discussions):
14:47:17 <iron_> https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=15/09/07/040206     http://pipedot.org/pipe/KPRX
14:47:20 <iron_> http://8ch.net/tech/res/346860.html        http://pipedot.org/pipe/K33M
14:47:23 <iron_> If you've not been taught the law, don't try to debate the legal merits of the case and show yourself to be a lay fool, please.
14:47:44 <karsten> to be honest, I didn't think much about preparing the berlin meeting yet. but I guess I'll think more about this in the next week or so.
14:47:55 <karsten> what do others think?
14:48:18 <iron_> karsten: I think if you're a linux kernel contrib you need to sue Brad Spengler.
14:48:52 <iron_> where is Ciel?
14:49:00 <iron_> if there is a Sebastian surely ther is a Ciel?
14:49:12 <iron_> Sebastian: what did you do with/to Ciel?
14:49:17 <karsten> should we move on with
14:49:23 <karsten> 14:11:57 < karsten> 2) 1-1-1 task exchange
14:49:25 <karsten> ?
14:49:44 <Sebastian> sounds good to me
14:49:53 <Sebastian> anyone have anything for me?
14:50:05 <karsten> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/O6TCKaTQ2j
14:50:38 <karsten> let's collect new tasks. what do we have?
14:50:54 <karsten> Sebastian: I totally failed to come up with new tasks this week. sorry.
14:51:04 <Sebastian> me too
14:51:19 <tomlurge> same here
14:51:28 <karsten> but let's give it a few minutes, maybe something comes up.
14:52:27 <clv> i ws thinking on changing mine to something 'simpler'
14:52:34 <clv> i was*
14:52:38 <karsten> sounds good. want to do that on the pad?
14:53:02 <clv> okey
14:53:39 <karsten> oh hey, I have something
14:56:12 <karsten> there, added to the pad.
14:56:51 <karsten> great, we have two new tasks.
14:58:20 <karsten> three.
14:58:30 <karsten> tomlurge: feel free to undo my edit.
14:58:31 <tomlurge> right!
14:58:43 <tomlurge> karsten: no, that’s perfect
14:58:56 <karsten> any takers for these three?
14:59:11 <karsten> and while we all consider adopting a task,
14:59:16 <karsten> 14:12:10 < karsten> 3) switch from wed 14 utc to thu 14 utc
14:59:36 <karsten> how about we switch to thursday, same time, to avoid the overlap with the tor meeting happening at 13:30 utc in #tor-dev?
14:59:43 <tomlurge> THU is okay for me
15:00:08 <karsten> we could even move to #tor-dev then!
15:00:21 <clv> no problem here
15:00:38 * karsten wonders if the doodle poll still exists..
15:01:09 <karsten> nope. :(
15:01:27 <karsten> okay, let's try thursday 14:00 utc next week.
15:02:23 <karsten> I think I'll give erebus a try if nobody else wants to do that.
15:03:14 <karsten> taken.
15:03:17 <clv> awesome! thnks
15:03:32 <tomlurge> good man!
15:03:59 <tomlurge> clv: you really…?
15:04:14 <clv> yes!
15:04:24 <tomlurge> I’m hunbled!
15:04:51 <karsten> tomlurge: I think if you provide some more context on the task, the result is more likely useful.
15:05:11 <karsten> I can easily see clv spending an hour trying out those pieces without producing something useful.
15:05:30 <karsten> if you can write a few more sentences about that, you might be happier with the output.
15:05:43 <karsten> like, via email later today or so.
15:05:56 <clv> right
15:05:57 <karsten> clv: so, should I wait for you to tell me when you have updated the README?
15:06:12 <clv> yes, please wait my update
15:06:18 <karsten> ok!
15:06:25 <karsten> 7 minutes over time.
15:06:30 <karsten> we should end this meeting.
15:06:35 <karsten> unless there's anything we must talk about?
15:07:15 <karsten> 3, 2, 1, .....
15:07:17 <karsten> #endmeeting