13:59:33 <karsten> #startmeeting Measurement Team meeting
13:59:33 <MeetBot> Meeting started Wed Sep  2 13:59:33 2015 UTC.  The chair is karsten. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:33 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:41 <karsten> hi. who's here for the meeting?
14:00:41 <isabela> dgoulet: yes we are
14:00:51 <isabela> sorry karsten
14:01:01 <karsten> hi isabela. welcome to the meeting. ;)
14:01:10 <isabela> hehe
14:01:13 <tomlurge> hi meeting!
14:01:36 <karsten> hi tomlurge!
14:02:30 <karsten> hi SeanSaito (if you're here for the meeting; or well, even if you're not)!
14:02:40 <SeanSaito> Hi Karsten! Yes, I am here for the meeting.
14:02:45 <karsten> great :)
14:03:11 <karsten> should we start by making an agenda?
14:03:28 <karsten> I have two items to suggest:
14:03:44 <clv> Hi karsten , I'm here for the meeting too
14:03:54 <karsten> 1) help karsten with the measurement roadmap by thinking about one or two measurement-related products and their future.
14:03:59 <clv> (my first time here)
14:04:33 <karsten> clv: hi! great, you should introduce yourself and what you're interested in in a minute. let me add an agenda item for that.
14:04:37 <karsten> 2) introductions
14:04:47 <karsten> 3) another round of 1-1-1 task exchange
14:04:56 <karsten> what else should we add to the agenda?
14:05:43 <SeanSaito> Will most of us be at the meeting in Berlin?
14:05:59 <karsten> very likely, yes.
14:06:00 <SeanSaito> If so, maybe we could talk about what we can work on there?
14:06:18 <karsten> 4) think about what we can work on while in berlin.
14:07:18 <karsten> cool. anything else?
14:08:07 <karsten> if something else comes up, we'll just append it to the current agenda.
14:08:10 <karsten> 14:05:12 < karsten> 2) introductions
14:08:20 <karsten> clv: hi. want to introduce yourself here?
14:08:39 <clv> Ok, thanks
14:09:01 <clv> My name is Cristobal, I'm participating at Tor Summer of Privacy (SoP)
14:09:22 <clv> The project I'm working on is called erebus
14:09:33 <clv> https://github.com/leivaburto/rwsd/tree/develop
14:09:58 <clv> erebus is basically a (web) Tor relay monitor
14:10:09 <clv> based on nyx (previously called arm)
14:10:33 <clv> Here is some graphical desc of how the project is going
14:10:36 <clv> https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/1937074/9633312/94fe8290-5162-11e5-9eec-0cf641493162.png
14:11:38 <karsten> that's great!
14:12:05 <clv> Thanks :)
14:12:26 <tomlurge> clv: Angular and D3?
14:12:45 <clv> yes!
14:13:17 <tomlurge> clv: we should talk… ;-) (later maybe, if you’re still around)
14:13:25 <clv> the python framework is cyclone, which is basically twisted but with a few tornado features
14:13:54 <clv> tomlurge: alright ;)
14:13:57 <karsten> clv: do you have any quick questions for us?
14:14:08 <karsten> anything you're blocking that the folks here might help you with?
14:14:15 <karsten> blocking on*
14:15:00 <karsten> or hey, maybe you have something for our 1-1-1 task exchange later?
14:15:08 <karsten> maybe think about that. the rules are:
14:15:18 <karsten> 1-1-1 task exchange: you get 1 minute to describe a task that would take somebody else roughly 1 hour and that they will do for you within 1 week (review a document, write some analysis code, fix a small bug, etc.; better come prepared to get the most out of this; give 1, take 1)
14:15:32 <karsten> well, "rules"
14:15:41 <clv> karsten: that sounds great
14:15:52 <karsten> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/O6TCKaTQ2j
14:16:13 <karsten> just mentioning it now as a heads-up. we'll get to it in a bit.
14:17:00 <karsten> okay, should we move on to the next agenda item?
14:17:32 <clv> okay
14:17:42 <SeanSaito> sure
14:17:47 <karsten> ok.
14:17:48 <karsten> 14:04:29 < karsten> 1) help karsten with the measurement roadmap by thinking about one or two measurement-related products and their future.
14:17:56 <karsten> the current draft is here:
14:18:03 <karsten> https://people.torproject.org/~karsten/volatile/measurement-roadmap.pdf
14:18:15 <karsten> it's a few weeks old, but I'd like to update it soon.
14:18:42 <karsten> I think the major part that's still missing is where we derive useful projects from the requirements and existing products.
14:19:14 <karsten> what I'd like to do is ask you to look at one or two products and think about what they need most.
14:19:31 <karsten> that wouldn't be on a ticket level, but one layer above that.
14:19:48 <karsten> e.g., product X really needs to be more robust, so that it doesn't break all the time.
14:20:11 <karsten> which can involve multiple tickets.
14:20:48 <karsten> the tricky part is that you may not know the product at that level of detail. but you can watch out for existing trac tickets, try out the product, etc., to get the idea.
14:21:22 <karsten> I already asked a few folks to do this, and I'm coordinating that I don't get input for only a small fraction of products.
14:21:56 <karsten> please let me know if you're interested in adopting a product or two for this purpose, and I'll try to pick them for you.
14:22:22 <karsten> I'm talking about the 30 products in Section 3.
14:22:55 <karsten> feel free to think about it and ping me after the meeting, irc or email. :)
14:23:12 <SeanSaito> Sure, I can help
14:23:29 <karsten> great, thanks! will email you later today.
14:23:52 <tomlurge> you could task me with some visualization projects
14:24:08 <karsten> sounds great, will find something.
14:24:18 <karsten> ok,
14:24:37 <karsten> let's move on to the next agenda item.
14:24:40 <karsten> 14:06:53 < karsten> 4) think about what we can work on while in berlin.
14:24:59 <karsten> this is about wed-fri, right?
14:25:19 <SeanSaito> yes
14:26:14 <karsten> what do you have in mind? hack on something together, discuss something when we have more "bandwidth", get feedback on something, do presentations, or what?
14:27:31 <karsten> like, would you want to present roster in berlin?
14:27:52 <SeanSaito> Not really sure. This will be my first meeting, so I don't know what usually goes on.
14:28:01 <karsten> so,
14:28:10 <karsten> mon+tue are really organized days.
14:28:16 <Sebastian> I'll be there, so if anyone does dirauth stuff we could hack
14:28:36 <karsten> we'll have a facilitator who runs those two days, with break-out sessions, discussions, no-laptop time, etc.
14:28:42 <karsten> hi Sebastian!
14:28:45 <Sebastian> yo
14:29:25 <karsten> wed-fri will be mostly unorganized, I think. people come together in smaller groups and work on stuff. and there will be a few presentations, I think.
14:29:36 <SeanSaito> ok, so we would work on anything we want?
14:30:00 <karsten> yes. but of course that can be more productive if we're prepared. :)
14:30:40 <karsten> in particular a presentation is best if prepared. even if you're doing a live demo.
14:31:21 <tomlurge> i’ll bring my visionion stuff and will probably be thankfull for help with the (then) latest JavaScript bugs. i would like to talk about visualizations if others work on similar projects and get feedback for my usecases because i’m not sure if my visualization concentrates on the right areas. i’d like to discuss which  JS web framework to use with D3 (visualization library) - and hear what JS web frameworks are used in other Tor (metric
14:31:21 <tomlurge> projects.
14:32:00 <karsten> I wonder, aren't we collecting these things on the wiki already?
14:32:22 <tomlurge> aha… link?
14:32:38 <karsten> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/meetings/2015SummerDevMeeting#Sessionideas
14:33:09 <karsten> would you want to add your sessions ideas there?
14:33:40 <karsten> Sebastian: I'd be interested in some dirauth hacking. let me find the ticket..
14:34:03 <tomlurge> karsten: yes, I think I can make that a session
14:34:55 <karsten> Sebastian: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/16558
14:35:35 <karsten> Sebastian: want to add that to the wiki?
14:35:42 <Sebastian> ok
14:36:12 <karsten> tomlurge: be sure to add a presentation of what you already have by then. :)
14:36:19 <Crew-L-T> hi, does anyone have experience with online shopping over tor
14:36:57 <karsten> okay, does that work for planning what we're going to do in berlin?
14:37:08 <karsten> I bet we'll come up with more stuff when we meet.
14:37:21 <SeanSaito> yes it does. I'll add to the wiki if something comes up.
14:38:08 <karsten> SeanSaito: sounds great. and if you happen to have something to demo but don't want to promise that right now, we can always announce that in berlin.
14:38:38 <SeanSaito> sounds good.
14:38:59 * phw is late for the meeting, sorry.
14:39:01 <karsten> great. next and last agenda item:
14:39:05 <karsten> hi phw!
14:39:16 <karsten> phw: let me know if you have anything to add to the agenda.
14:39:19 <karsten> 14:05:22 < karsten> 3) another round of 1-1-1 task exchange
14:39:33 <karsten> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/O6TCKaTQ2j
14:40:09 <karsten> Sebastian: I thought about ed25519 identities.
14:40:24 <karsten> and I even wrote a small doc about measurement tools needing work because of them.
14:40:45 <karsten> I just didn't send it to tor-dev@ yet, because I couldn't handle responses this week, and I'm interested in the feedback.
14:42:15 <karsten> so, what new tasks do we have to add?
14:43:21 <clv> I was reading last week meeting log and I saw tomlurge has experience with javascript
14:43:35 <clv> tomlurge: would you mind helping me with a code review?
14:43:37 <karsten> Sebastian: hmm, did you say the threads task is not relevant anymore?
14:44:09 <karsten> oh hey, clv and tomlurge, let me add a simple javascript task.
14:44:16 <tomlurge> clv: only bad experience ;-)
14:44:38 <clv> haha
14:44:56 <karsten> clv: we can add the task anyway, and either tomlurge picks it or maybe somebody else.
14:45:07 <karsten> clv: want to write it on the pad?
14:45:14 <clv> karsten: I see
14:45:15 <clv> ok
14:45:36 <Crew-L-T> hi, does anyone have experience with online shopping over tor
14:45:56 <tomlurge> clv: just joking. the problem is that i’m not a very good coder but i can look at your code and see if i can help
14:45:57 <karsten> Crew-L-T: wrong channel. try #nottor maybe.
14:46:11 <Crew-L-T> no
14:46:25 <Crew-L-T> this is the correct channel
14:46:53 <Crew-L-T> this is a issue that the community have to react to
14:46:53 <karsten> Crew-L-T: it's not. and we're in a meeting.
14:47:09 <karsten> Crew-L-T: but if you still think it's the right channel, ask again in 30 mins.
14:47:16 <Crew-L-T> ok
14:47:25 <Sebastian> karsten: I did
14:47:30 * phw added a task.
14:47:48 <Sebastian> sorry I have new contact lenses and they aren't working out yet
14:47:51 * Sebastian slow :)
14:48:09 <Sebastian> karsten: I crossed out the threads task last week.
14:48:24 <karsten> yep, but that markup gets lost when I copy over the text.
14:48:49 <Sebastian> ah
14:48:52 <karsten> there, marked as not relevant anymore.
14:48:53 <karsten> thanks.
14:49:16 <SeanSaito> Hi phw I'm not a Go programmer but is there a way in which I can help?
14:50:19 <phw> SeanSaito: sure, just install it and play with it.  i would like it to be more useful in practice, code review is not necessary at this point :)
14:50:42 <phw> but give me another day to update the README.
14:50:56 <karsten> SeanSaito: want to pick that task?
14:51:02 <SeanSaito> sure
14:51:09 <karsten> great!
14:51:19 <karsten> tomlurge: and do you want to pick the code review task from clv?
14:51:54 <tomlurge> Just looked at it, bit it’s so Angular specific that right now I can’t help with it. sorry :(
14:52:13 <karsten> fair enough.
14:53:31 <clv> karsten: I'd like to give it a shot to #16962
14:53:50 <karsten> awesome! adding you there.
14:54:42 <karsten> I'm afraid I'm not a js person, so I wouldn't be very useful to do a code review. :(
14:55:08 <clv> okay, I understand
14:55:11 <karsten> so, anybody for clv's task? maybe somebody else in this room?
14:55:17 <karsten> clv: I'd appreciate a JS code review for the project I'm working on (erebus). The code is written with Angular.  Link: https://github.com/leivaburto/rwsd/tree/develop/erebus/client/static/js/app
14:55:47 <karsten> ^ that's the task.
14:56:50 <karsten> otherwise we'll leave it on the list for next week.
14:57:32 <karsten> and if we don't find anybody to do it, maybe we can change it to be more like phw's task which doesn't require reading code. that is, if that's still useful.
14:57:39 <GDi> hello
14:57:50 <GDi> how do i install a webcam ??
14:57:56 <clv> alright
14:58:02 <GDi> on debian (advertised as for windows and mac only)
14:58:12 <karsten> cool. anything else we should talk about today?
14:59:06 <clv> I have a question...
14:59:11 <karsten> sure!
14:59:31 <clv> I was reading the tor measurement roadmap
14:59:54 <clv> Why isn't nyx listed there? Is it considered a monitoring tool rather than a measurement tool?
15:00:32 <karsten> that's a fine question. I was thinking about the same thing when you introduced your tool.
15:00:39 <karsten> I think it's on the boundary to Network Team.
15:01:20 <karsten> let's add it, similar to Torflow etc. which are on the same boundary.
15:01:33 <clv> I see
15:01:46 <clv> because I think the same applies for the tool I'm developing
15:01:49 <karsten> yep.
15:02:06 <clv> and I wasn't totally sure to attend this meeting
15:02:11 <karsten> team scopes are not set in stone yet. we're still experimenting with this team thing.
15:02:20 <clv> okey
15:02:33 <karsten> you should also attend the network team and then decide which makes more sense for you.
15:03:04 <karsten> but it was good to have you here, and feel free to drop by next week. :)
15:03:21 <clv> thanks! :)
15:03:22 <karsten> okay, /me adds Nyx to the roadmap.
15:03:35 <karsten> cool. let's end this meeting. thanks for coming, everyone!
15:03:38 <karsten> #endmeeting