16:04:29 <isabela> #startmeeting
16:04:29 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu May 21 16:04:29 2015 UTC.  The chair is isabela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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16:04:32 <isabela> ok
16:04:42 <isabela> maybe we can start with updates and then jump to discussion
16:04:45 <isabela> who can go first?
16:04:54 <sherief> I can.
16:05:10 <isabela> go for it
16:05:46 <sherief> This is mostly related to the automation of the torbrowser screen casts using sikuli.
16:06:19 <sherief> I've been working on resolving the bugs and issues so that I can move forward and work on the script
16:07:09 <sherief> App.open("Safari") couldn't even open applications such as safari so safari had to be open before running the script. Now that bug is fixed (I reported it) but it's still in the nightly build
16:07:37 <sherief> then I started working on running a local copy of torproject.org on my OS X machine.
16:08:42 <sherief> ran into a problem where the OS is doing DNS caching or the apps have their own third party libraries that handle DNS because I keep clearing the OS'
16:08:51 <sherief> This is according to Mark Smith.
16:09:07 <sherief> I Cced karsten on that
16:09:18 <karsten> yep
16:09:27 <sherief> If Kathy doesn't find a solution, Colin will help me install unbound
16:09:34 <karsten> it's the sort of problem where I think there must be a solution, I just don't know it yet.
16:09:44 <karsten> sounds reasonable.
16:09:51 <sherief> one more thing
16:10:16 <sherief> the mouse pointer doesn't appear during automated actions such as .hover()
16:10:34 <karsten> is that a sikuli bug?
16:10:47 <sherief> I asked why here and waiting for a reply from the community (they're responsive): https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/267224
16:10:50 <sherief> probably not
16:11:03 <sherief> maybe it's just using another method or an older one
16:11:41 <sherief> all in all, I am certain I can't finish this by May due to such blockers (and my final exams start in 5 days).
16:12:05 <karsten> can you summarize what you achieved by end of may?
16:12:10 <sherief> Yes.
16:12:13 <karsten> and what the current blockers are?
16:12:32 <sherief> also the scripts are now up on gitweb and Phoul1 reviewed them
16:12:43 <karsten> great!
16:12:56 <isabela> cool
16:12:56 <karsten> I think that's fine. not your fault that you're running into unexpected problems.
16:14:20 <sherief> 1) running a local copy on OS X of torproject.org and using that domain locally. 2) the mouse pointer not displaying at all while recording using automated actions. 3) We are using a nightly version because Sikuli stable doesn't run on OS X 10.10.
16:15:12 <sherief> Sikuli's developer keeps moving the date of the next stable release due to bugs
16:15:53 <sherief> and I answered tickets as usual.
16:15:59 <sherief> That's it for me.
16:16:19 <karsten> sounds great!
16:16:30 <isabela> yup!
16:16:35 <isabela> who can go next?
16:16:38 * harmony is here, can go last
16:17:35 <Phoul1> I can
16:17:56 <isabela> go for it!
16:20:10 <Phoul1> Answered tickets, worked on finishing curriculum worksheets (will finish drafting email to assistants after meeting), worked on support volunteer plan (see email to assistants sent before the meeting), added the new text to the RT auto responder and reviewed scripts for Sherief. Also started adding the instantbird strings to Tranasifex( this is going to be ongoing for sometime, its around 100 new resou
16:20:17 <Phoul1> rces).
16:20:49 <isabela> yay strings in transifex!
16:21:16 <karsten> 100 new resources? how many are there now?
16:21:44 <Phoul1> If we can work out getting more space on Majus, and they all get added, this will double us.
16:22:04 <Phoul1> technically 50 sets of strings, but 100 repos on our end. Since we have _completed as well.
16:22:18 <Phoul1> branches, rather.
16:23:19 <karsten> I mean, will our transifex translators think that tor messenger is 70% of what we're doing?
16:24:01 <karsten> is there a way to group resources?
16:24:57 <Phoul1> Not in a way where it doesnt display the others. They are currently "grouped" by their names. "Tor Browser - Foo" "Tails misc - Bar.pot"
16:25:34 <karsten> so, right now, https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/torproject/resources/ shows 30 resources.
16:25:41 <karsten> that will go up to 130?
16:25:42 <Phoul1> Its tricky, as we dont handle translation of Firefox for Tor Browser. However, Instantbird is missing translations for target languages, and only work in hg where most of our translators dont feel comfortable.
16:25:50 <Phoul1> No, that will go up to 80
16:25:55 <Phoul1> the branch count on our end will be 100
16:26:06 <karsten> ok. translations are sure hard.
16:26:25 <sherief> Each file is being treated as a resource?
16:26:38 <Phoul1> Thats the only way Transifex will accept resources.
16:26:47 <Phoul1> Unless we combine them on our end, and feed that in.
16:26:55 <sherief> Oh that's not fun at all :(
16:27:11 <sherief> That's more work for us..
16:27:35 <Phoul1> Provided we can get the space on Majus, it should be OK. Will just take a bit of time to get setup for all 50.
16:27:52 <karsten> how will we learn what percentage of tor messenger has been translated to any given language?
16:28:08 <isabela> i think it shows on the ui of transifex
16:28:13 <isabela> the completion
16:28:17 <Phoul1> It does, you'll just need to look at each resource.
16:28:31 <sherief> Can resources be grouped inside folders?
16:28:54 <Phoul1> I can look to see if thats something they have added, but I dont think thats a possibility currently.
16:30:48 <Phoul1> Anyways, that was all for me.
16:31:15 <isabela> cool
16:31:29 <isabela> who can go next/
16:31:30 <isabela> ?
16:33:30 <sherief> harmony?
16:34:39 <harmony> hi
16:35:04 <harmony> the last four weeks have been mostly taken up with personal things
16:35:20 <harmony> but i just pushed some revisions to the browser manual, including screenshots
16:35:41 <harmony> next steps there are to make sure we have a text suitable for translation in june
16:36:18 <harmony> and to reopen discussion with the tb team about how we can make it possible for them to distribute the manual with tor browser downloads
16:36:29 <sherief> harmony: Nice I finally can see screenshots. :)
16:36:49 <harmony> sherief: yes sorry it took ages
16:37:01 <sherief> no problem at all :)
16:37:13 <harmony> i hope to get back to answering tickets this weekend
16:37:27 <harmony> that's it at the moment
16:37:32 <isabela> cool
16:37:43 <sherief> harmony, That would be great since I am going to be swamped next week
16:38:02 <isabela> I have a question, how hard it would be to have on twn the top 3 issues users are having in the week
16:38:05 <harmony> sherief: yes i saw your comment, will try and make a dent in the help queue
16:38:14 <isabela> based on tickets
16:38:23 <harmony> isabela: we used to have a round-up of those
16:38:36 <harmony> it got dropped due to lack of time, but i can look at restarting it
16:38:45 <isabela> we should look into automating it
16:38:55 <Phoul1> To automate, I could do it based on articles.
16:38:57 <isabela> so you just copy and paste
16:39:08 <harmony> well colin's reports include the top articles used
16:39:10 <sherief> isabela: urgent and frequent issues are all reported to the tbb team using the "helpdesk-frequent" trac tag
16:39:33 <isabela> sherief: cool that is great
16:39:38 <isabela> top articles would be cool
16:39:56 <Phoul1> harmony: What is the current deadline for submitting to TWN?
16:40:31 <harmony> Phoul1: ahah, the last two weeks i have been really late (writing this week's now)
16:41:00 <harmony> but ideally tuesday evening UTC
16:41:30 <Phoul1> Sounds good, I will drop the top used articles into the wiki on tuesdays then, if that works.
16:41:43 * karsten has major connection problems here, sorry.
16:41:54 <isabela> Phoul1: that would be great
16:41:57 <harmony> Phoul1: sure, do they vary often?
16:42:28 <Phoul1> Monthly, no. Weekly, possibly? But it would mostly be reordering.
16:42:35 <isabela> yes
16:43:07 <isabela> is fine to not vary too for now
16:43:14 <isabela> the point is to have user info on the TWN
16:43:15 <intrigeri> nickm: commit 548b4be seems to change contrib/dist/tor.service.in in a buggy way.
16:43:20 <isabela> we can develop that corner within time
16:43:23 <harmony> ok, well if people think it's useful then i am all for it
16:43:26 <isabela> :) with more info
16:44:10 <isabela> I think it is, info like this shows 2 things
16:44:38 <isabela> 1. when it does not vary, the problems are the same, we know our priorities, those are problems we should fix, not that is ok to have the same problem all the time
16:44:49 <isabela> 2. when it does vary, we catch surprises faster
16:44:54 <isabela> but!
16:45:13 <isabela> most important, build a culture to learn from users.. so an users corner on TWN is important
16:45:21 <isabela> and we can develop what goes in there with time
16:45:30 <harmony> isabela: good points
16:45:51 <Phoul1> Sounds good. :)
16:46:23 <isabela> cool
16:46:30 <isabela> i think this opens discussions!
16:46:42 <isabela> Phoul1: do you want us to read your email and chat here about it?
16:46:58 <isabela> also, what ppl want to talk
16:47:09 <Phoul1> Sure, or comment on list. I'm alright with either.
16:47:36 * isabela reading it
16:47:43 <isabela> anyone has another point?
16:48:53 <karsten> is there a way to implement this process in RT somehow?
16:49:11 <karsten> like, a queue where you move tickets that can be answered by new volunteers,
16:49:21 <karsten> and a moderation flag for replies to go out.
16:49:46 <Phoul1> I can investigate that, but I havent seen anything that looked like that in RT.
16:49:47 <karsten> probably not the most common use case, but maybe there's a way?
16:51:24 <karsten> or maybe you could do this without the moderation step, but pick only non-sensitive and easy requests for new volunteers?
16:51:52 <karsten> you could even do two or more queues and level up volunteers.
16:52:37 <karsten> anyway, just thoughts. /me should level up as support assistant to make more useful comments..
16:52:55 <Phoul1> I'm not sure if there is a way to lock users out of all queues -1. I can confirm that though. Another concern there though, is if we are starting with "level 0" of trust (not knowing the person), do we want them having email addresses of people who contact us?
16:53:26 <nickm> intrigeri: thanks for the note!
16:54:16 <karsten> Phoul1: I wonder if there's a way to hide meta data. but again, this might not be the common use case. I'm just thinking how to avoid manual work as much as possible.
16:54:25 <harmony> Phoul1: is there a reason why we (the 'trusted' support assistants) need to see the actual email addresses?
16:54:34 <harmony> could they be obfuscated throughout?
16:54:36 <karsten> good point.
16:54:39 <harmony> probably a lot more work though
16:54:58 <harmony> that i can speculate about easily because i don't have to do it
16:55:02 <Phoul1> There isnt, but thats not something RT supports. We would need to add it. Also, there might be legal reasons for us keeping that. Not sure on the last point.
16:55:25 <harmony> Phoul1: sure, thanks
16:55:55 <isabela> I think they never thought of hiding it because most use cases of support you need the email to verify the user
16:55:56 <karsten> yep, sounds good, Phoul1. feel free to ignore these suggestions if they're a lot of work.
16:56:01 <isabela> because is how they create an account
16:56:55 <isabela> Phoul1: you can ping Julius23 as well CCC has been using it for a while and might have run through some of these questions
16:57:13 <Phoul1> Sure! Nice to know someone else deals with RT too. :)
16:57:16 <isabela> lol
16:57:34 <isabela> actually he suggested tor used it and i asked what we use and boom!
16:57:51 <isabela> which was funny
16:58:05 <Phoul1> hehe
16:58:09 <harmony> farsi text rendering remains very bad in RT, but that's not really a top priority
16:58:13 <harmony> just thought i'd mention it
16:58:24 <isabela> good to know
16:58:25 <isabela> ok
16:58:31 <Phoul1> harmony: good to know, will look into the status of that.
16:58:57 <harmony> Phoul1: i can explain further if needed when you do
16:59:13 <Phoul1> Thanks :)
16:59:53 <isabela> ok
17:00:06 <isabela> any other topics for discussion?
17:00:53 <Phoul1> Was there any news / next steps for funding after June?
17:01:04 * karsten was just about to write something about that.
17:01:27 <karsten> no news yet, but hopefully in the next few days. isabela or I would write mail as soon as we learn more.
17:01:48 <karsten> note that this is only about the sponsor o extension.
17:01:58 <karsten> the more important part is applying for new funding.
17:02:18 <isabela> yes, also I will migrate the info on that pad and Phoul1 email into a proposal format so we can start shapping this into a doc
17:02:18 <karsten> I don't know the status there, nor who's working on that.
17:02:29 <karsten> ah okay, isabela is. :)
17:02:34 <isabela> i mean
17:02:44 <isabela> i am working on making sense of what can be funded :)
17:02:51 <isabela> finding the fund is the next step
17:02:59 <karsten> who is writing funding proposals these days?
17:03:16 <karsten> which would be the step after figuring out where to send it, I guess.
17:03:27 <isabela> well the latest one I saw was from OONI and they wrote themselves
17:03:32 <isabela> we just reviewed it
17:03:55 <karsten> that was for 1 person or a group?
17:04:00 <isabela> I think I will have a better answer after I meet with exec team and board in boston
17:04:05 <isabela> on the first week of june
17:04:10 <isabela> karsten: a group
17:04:37 <karsten> Phoul1, sherief, harmony: would you want to help write such a thing?
17:05:07 <Phoul1> I'm happy to help, but ive never written anything like that before.
17:05:25 <isabela> yes, and we have already some of the draft in the pad and on Phoul1's email
17:05:34 <harmony> I'm in the same position as Phoul1
17:05:42 <isabela> I will help
17:05:55 <isabela> that is what I meant by -> I will migrate the info on that pad and Phoul1 email into a proposal format so we can start shapping this into a doc
17:05:59 <sherief> karsten: I've never written anything like that before or even saw one. I am probably not fit.
17:06:05 * karsten didn't write such a proposal before and assumes it requires a lot of marketing language.
17:06:17 <isabela> so this is the deal
17:07:02 <isabela> proposals normally have specific questions the funder has, and we dont know them becuase we dont know where we will apply yet! but that does not block us from organizing our proposal in a generic format and then fix it for the grants we want to apply
17:07:06 <isabela> and i will help you with that
17:07:14 <isabela> so we dont waste time
17:07:29 <isabela> is it ok if i do this on a gdoc?
17:07:39 <karsten> that sounds like not so much marketing language yet.
17:07:54 <isabela> ?
17:07:56 <karsten> because we'll still have to understand it ourselves to later turn it into something else.
17:07:59 <Phoul1> I'd be happy to help with that. As for gdoc... any idea how well it works in TB lately?
17:08:30 <isabela> Phoul1: i will do it all with TB! and if it sucks I move to something thta it doesnt
17:08:39 <Phoul1> Great! :)
17:08:42 <karsten> isabela: I mean, we can write down ideas in a way without making them sound awesome/exciting/wonderful/world-saving.
17:09:00 <isabela> well
17:09:11 <karsten> isabela: and once we know where to send it, we can find a native speaker who also speaks marketing and tweak it.
17:09:25 <isabela> hehehe
17:09:30 <isabela> I had to do that a lot
17:09:37 <isabela> writing briefs to sell ideas to VPs
17:09:49 <karsten> you speak that language? fantastic! :)
17:10:00 <isabela> I do!
17:10:01 <isabela> hehehe
17:10:06 <Phoul1> \o/
17:10:49 <isabela> a friend used to say 'VP talk' which is 90% marketing BS
17:10:51 <isabela> lol
17:11:07 <karsten> heh
17:11:38 <isabela> alright let me give it a try and I share with  you folks
17:11:44 <karsten> cool!
17:12:03 <Phoul1> isabela: Thank you :)
17:12:04 <isabela> should we turn MeetBot off?
17:12:31 <karsten> sounds like we're done, so yes?
17:12:41 <isabela> sim!
17:12:45 <isabela> #endmeeting