15:10:14 <isabela> #startmeeting Tor SoC
15:10:14 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Mar 26 15:10:14 2015 UTC.  The chair is isabela. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:10:14 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:10:17 <isabela> cool
15:10:30 <nickm> isabela: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_audition
15:11:09 <ailanthus> Blind auditions help get the very best people regardless of demographics.
15:11:14 <nickm> I've added an approximate timeline at the bottom of the etherpad for consideration
15:11:17 <MeetBot> isabela: Error: "!" is not a valid command.
15:12:12 <isabela> nickm: how would that work for soc? you would look at the code of the student no other info?
15:13:00 <isabela> nickm: I will move that to the top :)
15:14:21 <nickm> perhaps code and chat but scrub pii and demographics from applications and ask students to chose neutral handles.
15:14:53 <isabela> sure
15:14:53 <ailanthus> nickm: Sounds good
15:14:53 <ailanthus> nickm: isabela: also I think reporters would be interested in a blind application process—it makes news and shows us as leaders
15:14:53 <nickm> I think calling it "summer of code", even if there isn't a trademark issue, seems a little iffy.  Maybe Summer of Privacy?
15:14:53 <nickm> tspo
15:14:53 <nickm> err
15:14:53 <nickm> tsop
15:14:54 <nickm> ailanthus: it _would_ be extra work though
15:14:54 <isabela> btw when is end of spring term? that is soon isnt it? (American school year is something misterious for me)
15:14:54 <nickm> and we need to figure out who's doing it
15:14:54 <ailanthus> nickm: how?
15:14:55 <Sebastian> (For gsoc, we've had the tentative goal of recruiting volunteers/possibly contractors later. We haven't been super successful, but it'd be nice to work this in as a goal here, too)
15:14:56 <ailanthus> isabela: End of college school years is in May, mid-May usually
15:15:14 <nickm> I've added a link to gsoc's timeline
15:15:21 <isabela> thanks
15:15:35 <Sebastian> (We could also be more flexible with times. German summer break is until April, and then from end of July to beginning of Oct typically)
15:15:54 <Sebastian> erm, German winter break is until april.
15:16:05 <isabela> in the south is actually winter break and people get the whole month of july off
15:16:06 <nickm> i'm throwin in make-believe dates to see what happens
15:17:17 <ailanthus> nickm: In college interviews sometimes interviewers ask applicants to write a little on the spot, just to prove that the interviewee is the same person who wrote their personal essay that was submitted earlier.
15:17:18 <isabela> ok
15:17:38 <ailanthus> we would need an outreach plan as well as a publicity plan for later
15:17:55 <ailanthus> outreach to get a wide, diverse pool of applicants.
15:17:56 <asn> Summer of Cypherpunks? Cypherpunk Summer?
15:18:08 <ailanthus> Anonymous Summer
15:18:09 <weasel> season.
15:18:10 <ailanthus> Secret Summer
15:18:22 <ailanthus> Summer of Secrets
15:18:27 <karsten> Dark Summer
15:18:27 <ailanthus> Sounds Sketchy :)
15:18:42 <ailanthus> Dark Summer :)
15:18:45 <dgoulet> Onion Summer
15:18:55 <nickm> I still like Summer of Privacy
15:19:00 <isabela> so, lets think about it.. if we announce on the 2nd we are giving them 1 week to submit applications? when is the deadline for submissions?
15:19:08 <ailanthus> nickM: Me, too—Summer of Privacy
15:19:27 <nickm> in the timeline I wrote, the deadline to submit would be apr 9
15:19:38 <ailanthus> Isabela: The shorter the deadline window, the less diverse the applicants b/c only people already close to Tor will find out about it.
15:19:41 <nickm> but we can make it longer ...
15:20:01 <nickm> one danger here is that a lot of students can't afford to wait very late to find out what they're doing over the summer
15:20:38 <isabela> fine
15:20:57 <isabela> lets just make sure the form is simple enought that someone can get it done and submit in a week
15:21:00 <isabela> :)
15:21:01 <nickm> we can probably do a good evaluation in 2-3 days if we're very focused.
15:21:01 <ailanthus> nickm: good point
15:21:08 <ailanthus> isabela: Great idea—
15:21:36 <ailanthus> isabela: A quick application process is a beautiful thing.
15:21:43 <isabela> yes
15:21:49 * isabela hate forms
15:21:50 <nickm> I've tweaked it a little
15:22:07 <nickm> the good thing about forms is that if you omit information, you are likelier to realize it
15:22:24 <isabela> yes
15:23:20 <nickm> I've moved the dates so that we accept applications later but explicitly tell people that earlier applications give them more time to talk with us
15:23:39 <isabela> ok in order to announce it next week
15:24:18 <isabela> are we paying them? like gsoc?
15:24:21 <nickm> (Does anybody think we can go later with this?  I realize this gives us time pressure, but the longer we wait the more students will make other plans.)
15:24:30 <nickm> isabela: we have received some pledges specifically to allow us to do so.
15:24:38 <isabela> nickm: I think is fine if we have all pieces in place
15:24:56 <nickm> Specifically, we've got $11k total pledged by 3 board members.  Last year gsoc's stipend was $5500 IIRC.
15:25:01 <nickm> That gets us two students.
15:25:06 <isabela> nickm: awesome - so we need to work on a page in the wiki with the rules and an announcement blog/press release
15:25:23 <nickm> We could consider allocating budget for a third student out of budget, if the applications are great.  Or if we get another pledge.
15:26:09 <nickm> 3 students seems like a good limit even if we could afford more; this is our first time trying to do it and we would like to set ourselves up for success
15:26:14 <Sebastian> for gsoc, the student gets 5k and the org gets .5
15:26:17 <Sebastian> afaik
15:26:31 <isabela> ok so we should say how many students we can afford in the wiki or announcement
15:27:04 <ilv> question: could this summer of privacy be used to fund students *already* working on the Tor ecosystem?
15:27:08 * wseltzer thinks we might have donations covering 3 students
15:27:23 <ilv> working/collaborating
15:28:08 <ilv> or are you looking to attract new people?
15:29:37 <nickm> ilv: either.  In the past it's mostly been folks who are new-to-us.  It probably wouldn't be appropriate to give this to anybody already in a contractor or employee relationship here.
15:29:47 <ailanthus> Our funnel for bringing in new people does not seem to include women or POC in general (at least from what I know).
15:30:32 <ailanthus> It would be good to see if we can broaden the kinds of new people we are bringing in to Tor community. (Underrepresented POC, I meant)
15:30:49 <nickm> That's an important thing for the outreach phase IMO
15:31:03 <isabela> yes
15:31:18 <ailanthus> NickM: Yes
15:31:19 <nickm> I think that, given the late date, we might want to call this an experimental program to set expectations
15:31:34 <nickm> like, we are not going to get this as smooth as gsoc goes the first time we try it out
15:31:43 <nickm> and we should be upfront about that
15:31:46 <ailanthus> Nickm: How we structure program also affects group we get
15:31:46 <wseltzer> for college students, this doesn't feel all that late to me
15:31:57 <ailanthus> nickm: Experiment—yes, definitely, and that's okay :)
15:31:59 <ilv> nickm: ok! and yeah, I was referring to volunteers
15:32:07 <wseltzer> remember, our competition is also summer camps, delis, etc
15:32:50 <ailanthus> wseltzer: right
15:33:30 <isabela> yes, and in the south this is a huge deal for a student as there is not that many opportunities
15:33:40 <ailanthus> I wonder if Mozilla is doing something —they were also cut out of Google SoC this year, right?
15:33:41 <nickm> isabela: +1.
15:34:28 <isabela> I could help get people to spread our announcement around south america :)
15:35:02 <isabela> anw
15:35:27 <ailanthus> we need an announcement document to send to people and distribute through Twitter, etc.
15:35:27 <nickm> one challenge GSoc faces is that if $5k for the summer is a lot of money for you, you are likelier to apply even if you don't care so much about the experience.
15:35:39 <ailanthus> Are we just doing English-speaking people?
15:35:59 <Yawning> Depends on who's mentoring what
15:36:02 <Yawning> ?
15:36:08 <Sebastian> I think English speaking is a good requirement
15:36:19 <isabela> normally CS students speaks enough english
15:36:25 <nickm> I think that we need competent-enough fluency in a language shared with a mentor.
15:36:25 <Sebastian> not just because the community speaks English, but also administration etc.
15:36:32 <nickm> That's the very bare minimum.
15:37:01 <Yawning> forcing mentors to spend time translating student writeups and what not is probably not a great idea
15:37:13 <nickm> yeah
15:37:35 <Yawning> I mean, I'd do it for languages I can, if the students are exceptional
15:37:41 <Yawning> but ti's kind of a strech
15:38:44 <isabela> Do we want to have some 'area of focus' describing what type of work we are looking for?
15:39:23 <Yawning> no? most of our projects need love and could use volunteers iirc
15:39:26 <nickm> In the past we had a big list of projects and asked for ideas for more projects
15:39:31 <ailanthus> yawning: good points
15:39:39 <Yawning> subject to mentor availability
15:40:11 <isabela> maybe list our projects at least?
15:40:33 <Yawning> didn't damian make a list of stuff when we were still thinking about gsoc?
15:40:34 <nickm> projects in the what-are-our-programs area or projects in the what-to-work-on area?
15:40:42 <ailanthus> Yes, or we could ask Tor Internal for ideas?
15:40:54 <ailanthus> We want the projects to sound interesting (they are interesting)
15:41:08 <isabela> I guess what I am looking for is somehow to say that must be related to Tor
15:41:13 <ailanthus> I'm starting an announcement for students—what are the requirements?
15:41:52 <isabela> ailanthus: that is what I am trying to figure out I am making a template for what we should have at our Wiki page explaining SoP
15:42:03 <isabela> ailanthus: is at the pad btw
15:42:43 <ailanthus> isabela: ok :)
15:43:17 <nickm> must be a student enrolled in a uni or college; must be old enough we can give them money; must not be in some country that we can't legally send them any money in; ...
15:44:44 <ailanthus> nickm: Do they submit code to apply?
15:44:57 <Yawning> for code related projects probably?
15:45:04 <Yawning> strongly encouraged?
15:45:10 <nickm> code sample required.
15:45:24 <ailanthus> yawning: nickm: Yes.
15:45:31 <nickm> We have never never had a student applicant who was any good that didn't submit a code sample.
15:45:32 <ailanthus> (required)
15:46:00 <isabela> nickm: do we need HR or legal to help us build the application form?
15:46:13 <ailanthus> isabela: can we copy Google's?
15:46:20 <isabela> not sure
15:46:23 <nickm> I pinged Tom about that and it seems that we can write something up and have Tom look it over to make sure it's fine
15:46:32 <isabela> cool
15:46:42 <nickm> Certainly looking over google's form for ideas would be neat.
15:47:02 <isabela> yes
15:47:18 <isabela> lets get a link for that form in the pad
15:48:06 <isabela> nice note
15:48:41 <nickm> the warning?
15:48:45 <isabela> yes
15:48:55 <nickm> yeah, I don't want some student who finds this thinking that we are committing to those dates today
15:50:23 <ailanthus> Here is Google's timeline—applications are due tomorrow. http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2015
15:51:31 <isabela> sooo at our wiki homepage we encourage people to go here -> https://www.torproject.org/getinvolved/volunteer#Projects
15:51:44 <isabela> to find projects they can help and apply to GSoC
15:52:09 <ailanthus> Google's list of legal requirements (no Syria, etc.) http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2015/org_admin_agreement
15:52:30 <isabela> ailanthus: nice!
15:52:50 <ailanthus> but wow—complicated!
15:53:23 * sherief is around for Sponsor O' meeting.
15:53:29 <nickm> wseltzer just confirmed for me that we have budget for 3 students
15:53:34 <nickm> (in pledges)
15:53:42 <nickm> the mentor org in this case would be us
15:53:50 <nickm> the agreement with students is probably simpler
15:53:56 <nickm> but some of that probably defines stuff we should do
15:54:38 <aagbsn> awesome!
15:55:08 <isabela> hi sherief
15:55:12 <nickm> so how do we get from here to there?
15:55:23 <nickm> what do we need to do before we announce, and how can we divvy it up?
15:55:32 <nickm> My own time between now and then is .... present, but limited.
15:55:49 <isabela> I think the tasks are
15:55:50 <nickm> (because scrambling to finish all march things)
15:56:00 <Envite_> Hi all
15:56:03 <isabela> 1. write the announcement (sugges ailanthus )
15:56:24 <isabela> 2. get the wiki page up (suggest everyone but I can get that started and email the link)
15:56:37 <isabela> 3. figure out the application form (maybe you nick? and tom)
15:56:43 <isabela> does that sounds something?
15:57:25 <nickm> i've transcribed those to a new heading near the top of the document, and added a couple
15:57:28 <nickm> 4. update project list
15:57:33 <isabela> sponsorO folks we are wrapping up another meeting just one sec :)
15:57:34 <nickm> 5. figure our application process
15:57:44 <isabela> cool
15:57:46 <isabela> thanks
15:57:49 <nickm> notably for 5, we should not promise blind auditions unless we are 100% they can be made to work
15:58:07 <nickm> I think atagar (damian) is likely to be up for helping with a lot of this.
15:58:30 <isabela> cool!
15:58:43 <isabela> I can send a note to the list reporting back so he can catch up
15:58:50 <nickm> gret
15:58:51 <sherief> hi all
15:58:52 <nickm> *great
15:59:05 <isabela> are we cool? can we end the meeting
15:59:06 <nickm> ok, I put myself as possible on three things, though really I shouldn'tve
15:59:06 <isabela> ?
15:59:11 <isabela> :)
15:59:12 <nickm> I think we can end the meeting and start moving ahead.
15:59:33 <nickm> great planning, friends
15:59:47 <isabela> cool! thanks everyone! lets get this rolling!
15:59:54 <isabela> #endmeeting