15:58:59 <sysrqb> #startmeeting Tor Browser 10.5 Roadmapping
15:58:59 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu Nov 19 15:58:59 2020 UTC.  The chair is sysrqb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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15:59:10 <GeKo> hi
15:59:31 <sysrqb> http://kfahv6wfkbezjyg4r6mlhpmieydbebr5vkok5r34ya464gqz6c44bnyd.onion/p/TB-roadmap-planning-keep
15:59:45 <sysrqb> or https://pad.riseup.net/p/TB-roadmap-planning-keep
16:00:18 <sysrqb> i started sketching our general focus at the bottom of the pad
16:00:36 <sysrqb> for what I think we can accomplish between now and ~March 2021
16:00:41 <gaba> hi!
16:00:52 <antonela> o/
16:01:02 <GeKo> i guess we need to add steven's think, too?
16:01:07 <GeKo> *thing
16:01:17 <gaba> last week we stopped at s58 issues
16:01:18 * antonela added steven's on ux roadmap somehow
16:01:20 <gaba> right
16:01:23 <GeKo> it's supposed to start in january
16:01:25 <GeKo> iirc
16:01:43 <sysrqb> i think March 2021 is a good target for 10.5 becuase we need to start transitioning to the the next esr after that
16:01:55 <sysrqb> (hopefully only macOS and Windows, at that point)
16:02:25 <sysrqb> GeKo: yes, steven's thing should be February and March, roughly
16:02:49 <sysrqb> but i'm not including any of that in 10.5, except HOM
16:03:34 <sysrqb> acat: i'll send you the details of this side project we'll be working on
16:04:00 <acat> ok
16:05:49 <gaba> should we continue with s58 now?
16:06:02 <gaba> and follow the pad...
16:06:18 <sysrqb> I'm including that for covering the final pieces of it
16:06:28 <sysrqb> like the remaining automation and testing
16:06:40 <sysrqb> which are still not complete
16:08:38 <GeKo> how does the rappor and seedin hsts cache thing get onto our current roadmap?
16:08:44 <GeKo> *seeding
16:09:04 <sysrqb> that is the Steven thing
16:09:11 <GeKo> aha
16:09:26 <GeKo> sponsor xx
16:09:46 <gaba> i added it as crew project
16:09:47 <sysrqb> yeah. i guess we will have a sponsor number associated with this
16:09:51 <gaba> we still do not have a number for that sponsor
16:10:02 <gaba> CREWS project
16:10:22 <GeKo> whatever that is :)
16:10:23 <gaba> Collaborative ResistancE to Web Surveillance (CREWS) is the name of the project
16:10:30 <GeKo> thanks
16:12:32 <acat> that's rappor only? or seeding HSTS cache too?
16:12:46 <sysrqb> Okay, at the bottom of the pad is a rough set of goals for 10.5
16:12:50 <sysrqb> acat: both
16:13:06 <sysrqb> (see email)
16:13:41 <acat> thx
16:13:59 <sysrqb> i think this fills our plate well enough for the next ~5 months
16:14:03 <GeKo> so, if 10.5 is now due in march instead of june
16:14:18 <GeKo> the roadmap will likely be more than enough for us
16:14:36 <sysrqb> I felt including all of this plus an ESR transitoin was a lot for 10.5
16:14:47 <sysrqb> do any of you disagree?
16:15:18 <GeKo> i think the driving factor for 10.5 was sponsor 30
16:15:49 <GeKo> i am not sure whether we get to do all the things for that until march
16:15:53 <GeKo> but maybe we do
16:16:40 <GeKo> that is the .5 release has usually been the release were we include our own big new features
16:17:38 <sysrqb> i think the transition onto the next esr/rr needs to take priority over S30, if they conflict
16:17:50 <antonela> i'm somewhat anxious now that im not going to be here for stable, i was expecting 10.5 for june
16:17:51 <antonela> BUT
16:18:09 <sysrqb> and arriving at June with a pile of S30 patches and a transition on 91 is a lot of changes
16:18:34 <antonela> for june we can have multiples 10.5.x  :)
16:18:59 <gaba> there is a minimum work of s30 that really needs to happen
16:19:27 <sysrqb> i'm also okay with delaying S30 in stable until 11
16:19:47 <sysrqb> and 11 could be in August
16:19:55 <gaba> that would be fine
16:19:57 <sysrqb> if S30 is stable then
16:20:04 <GeKo> so
16:20:18 <GeKo> 91.0 will be out 7/13
16:20:30 <GeKo> and we need to get away from 78 until 10/05
16:20:46 <GeKo> so i doubt tor browser 11 will be out in august
16:20:47 <gaba> I would love to have the roadmap reflected in https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/applications/-/boards each month
16:21:04 <GeKo> unless we think we'll be away from esr for all platforms by then
16:21:06 <sysrqb> GeKo: oh. i misread the table. hrm.
16:21:07 <antonela> sysrqb: yes, i think we talked about splitting s30, some of this work can happen for 10.5, other for 11
16:21:23 <sysrqb> okay, i don't know what numbers I was looking at
16:21:39 <GeKo> mozilla changed them!1!!
16:21:45 <GeKo> over night
16:22:09 <sysrqb> okay, let's back up and start this conversation again :)
16:22:23 <GeKo> in general, i am fine if we think 10.5 shall get out in march
16:22:39 <GeKo> but it will be quite tight with things on our roadmap alone
16:23:30 <GeKo> or the proposed roadmap that is
16:24:01 <sysrqb> right, i agree
16:24:09 <acat> me too
16:25:16 <sysrqb> okay, let's say Linux is moved onto rapid release for 10.5 stable, and macOS and Windows remain on ESR
16:26:06 <sysrqb> we can essentially start the transition onto 90/91 in Nightly as early as we want
16:26:20 <sysrqb> but stablizing 10.5 in June is still reasonable
16:26:55 <sysrqb> and then we have July and August for stablizing 11 on 91esr
16:27:09 * antonela :)
16:27:33 <acat> i think it's reasonable
16:27:42 <sysrqb> and 11 is released in September
16:29:00 <GeKo> yep
16:29:53 <sysrqb> okay, good.
16:30:36 <gaba> ok, this is the overview of the goals in the roadmap until next year.
16:30:54 <gaba> can we have something more specific for this year where we can see and follow this roadmap
16:31:37 <sysrqb> yes, we can break these down into specific tickets
16:31:44 <GeKo> you mean the remaining 4-5 weeks?
16:32:11 <gaba> yes
16:32:14 <gaba> until dec 23rd
16:32:25 <gaba> at least
16:33:59 <sysrqb> Sponsor 58 (as described above)
16:33:59 <sysrqb> Move nightly builds into TPO infrastructure
16:33:59 <sysrqb> Stabilize Android Rapid Release processes
16:34:00 <sysrqb> Sponsor 30 (as described above)
16:34:11 <sysrqb> (part of S30)
16:34:32 <sysrqb> those are our primary focus for the next month
16:35:01 <sysrqb> we'll find or open the specific tickets that we'll work on in this time
16:35:57 <sysrqb> plus investigating "Enable HTTPS-Only Mode"
16:36:01 <antonela> Sponsor 58 (as described above) is https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/-/milestones/11
16:36:06 <antonela> is a question
16:36:37 <gaba> the action we had from last week was to close tickets or remove them from s58 if that will not happen
16:37:19 <sysrqb> antonela: yes, remainder of tor-browser#33656 and tor-browser#33660
16:37:25 <sysrqb> ah, no tor
16:37:35 <gaba> Obj 1.2
16:37:35 <gaba> Automatic patch rebasing
16:37:35 <gaba> Rebase failure notifications
16:37:35 <gaba> Obj 2.4 - Audit tickets by the end of November
16:37:35 <gaba> Finish/close audit tickets
16:37:37 <gaba> Fix broken Android unit tests
16:37:40 <gaba> Obj 2.3
16:37:42 <gaba> Implement Android integration tests
16:37:45 <gaba> that is what is missing
16:37:55 <antonela> gotcha
16:37:58 <sysrqb> tpo/applications/tor-browser#33656 tpo/applications/tor-browser#33660
16:38:21 <sysrqb> hrm. okay, anyway....
16:38:44 <gaba> we do not have the bot here
16:39:16 <sysrqb> yeah, seems not
16:39:46 <sysrqb> acat: are there any items you want to work on that aren't included in the list at the bottom of the pad?
16:39:50 <gaba> yes, #33661 needs to be closed
16:40:36 <sysrqb> GeKo: same for you ^
16:40:58 <sysrqb> even though we don't know how much time you'll have for this
16:41:06 <GeKo> what does "at the bottom" mean? you mena "Current Roadmap"?
16:41:08 <acat> sysrqb: i think we should be good with those
16:41:10 <GeKo> *mean
16:41:26 <sysrqb> GeKo: yes, and "reach goals"
16:41:27 <antonela> line 95 and beyond
16:41:42 <sysrqb> yeah
16:41:50 <GeKo> i think we should discuss at some point whether all the reach goals are really important
16:41:53 <sysrqb> I bolded the items we'll focus on for the remainder of this year
16:41:57 <GeKo> i am not convinced yet
16:42:07 <GeKo> but i think the current roadmap is a good start
16:42:16 <gaba> and how much capacity. Geko: you have mostly s61, not sure how much time you will spend with the stuff from this roadmap
16:42:32 <GeKo> like i agree those are the items we should tackle now and in the near future
16:42:51 <GeKo> and if we have capacity for more then we can discuss what else to pick
16:43:29 <GeKo> yes
16:43:44 <GeKo> it's mostly s61 for me
16:44:08 <GeKo> i won't be able to pick up any shiny features
16:44:17 <GeKo> and likely no s30 work
16:44:35 <gaba> yes, i was thinking acat was going to focus on s30
16:44:51 <GeKo> i suspect keeping the release train running, including rebase review etc. will consume most of my time
16:45:02 <GeKo> + doing other maintenance stuff
16:45:22 <gaba> yes
16:45:39 <GeKo> + helping with the actual releases
16:46:47 <sysrqb> okay, i'll really find some time and organize these tickets today/tomorrow
16:47:18 <antonela> matt
16:47:23 <sysrqb> and we'll know what we need to work on
16:47:28 <sysrqb> antonela
16:47:46 <gaba> sysrqb: maybe we can start doing this during our sync today
16:47:47 <antonela> one thing we need to make sure is that both browsers should get updated in jan when the eoy campaign ends
16:47:53 <antonela> i'll open that ticket so we dont forget
16:48:03 <gaba> thanks antonela: can you put a due date on it?
16:48:05 <sysrqb> antonela: yes please
16:48:08 <sysrqb> thanks!
16:48:18 <sysrqb> gaba: sounds good
16:48:23 <antonela> yes yes
16:50:36 <sysrqb> okay, anything else we should discuss?
16:51:08 <gaba> I will add goals and overview for roadmap to the wiki page
16:51:19 <sysrqb> thanks gaba
16:51:29 <gaba> actually, it is here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/team/-/wikis/home
16:52:03 <sysrqb> looks great!
16:52:25 <sysrqb> (I'll clarify "RAPPOR")
16:52:44 <sysrqb> (i don't want people getting the wrong idea about that)
16:53:31 <sysrqb> 10.5, best Tor Browser ever :)
16:53:36 <antonela> can we scope the ux work there?
16:53:53 <antonela> not now
16:54:01 <antonela> but sometime next week :)
16:54:14 <sysrqb> yes
16:54:25 <sysrqb> tuesday?
16:54:29 <antonela> sounds good
16:54:35 <gaba> the crews project is sponsor 103 !
16:54:40 <antonela> !
16:54:50 <sysrqb> exciting!
16:55:14 <GeKo> so it's sponsor xxx actually ;)
16:55:22 <GeKo> instead of sponsor xx
16:55:24 <sysrqb> antonela: acat 1500 on Tuesday?
16:55:33 <sysrqb> GeKo: heh
16:56:01 <acat> sysrqb: ok for me
16:56:11 <antonela> wfm
16:56:15 <sysrqb> great
16:56:58 * gaba added a label for s103 so we can start tagging tickets
16:58:01 <gaba> kickoff will be in jan so no rush...
16:58:39 <antonela> yeah, but i want to make sure that i understand what is going on to onboard duncan on it
16:59:03 <sysrqb> yep
16:59:05 <GeKo> heh
16:59:17 <GeKo> i forgot to add tor browser performance improvements to the wishlist
16:59:39 <antonela> ha
16:59:49 <sysrqb> what does that include? :)
16:59:50 <GeKo> like (ab)-using some kind of tracking protection
16:59:55 <sysrqb> ah
16:59:57 <antonela> dropping the bomb at the last minute
17:00:01 <GeKo> no, no
17:00:08 <sysrqb> you can still add it on the wishlist :)
17:00:13 <GeKo> it would be in Reach Goals anyway at most
17:00:21 <sysrqb> yes
17:00:51 <sysrqb> okay, i'm going to close this meeting
17:00:52 <GeKo> so we can pick that discussion up later once we want to pick someting out of that basket
17:01:05 <sysrqb> sounds good
17:01:11 <sysrqb> thanks everyone!
17:01:14 <antonela> if you say "tor browser performance improvements" nobody will complain!
17:01:16 <antonela> haha
17:01:18 <antonela> thanksss!
17:01:24 <GeKo> i know :)
17:01:26 <sysrqb> heh :) #truth
17:01:29 <sysrqb> #endmeeting