17:30:21 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor-browser 9/9/2019
17:30:21 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Sep  9 17:30:21 2019 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:30:21 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:30:28 <GeKo> alright it seems to be time
17:30:49 <boklm> hi
17:30:56 <GeKo> our pad as usual: https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N
17:31:08 <GeKo> it seems some items a re still missing
17:31:15 <GeKo> we won't have pili today
17:31:20 <GeKo> and probably no sysrqb
17:31:24 <acat> hi
17:31:24 <sisbell> hi
17:31:30 <brade> o/
17:31:31 <mcs> hi
17:32:52 <Guest2145> hii
17:32:56 <Guest2145> um
17:33:06 <pospeselr> hiii
17:33:07 <GeKo> hi guest :)
17:33:31 <pospeselr> :p
17:37:26 <GeKo> okay, let's get going
17:38:11 <GeKo> sisbell: you are up it seems
17:38:45 <sisbell> so i'm blocked on patching google android plugin since all their code is not open/available
17:39:12 <GeKo> really? interesting.
17:39:20 <sisbell> So I'd like to take the approach of using apktool to decompile the resources and recompile them
17:40:07 <sisbell> This bypasses the gradle plugin, which contains the repro bug
17:40:43 <GeKo> sounds fine to me. any reasons why we not just use the tools as it comes with debian?
17:40:50 <sisbell> But this involves adding an apktool project to our build
17:41:05 <GeKo> i mean i am all for building apktool from source
17:41:18 <GeKo> but we have some time constraints :)
17:41:29 <GeKo> or is 2.3.4 not new enough?
17:41:52 <sisbell> It would be fine, I'll do that then, it will save time
17:42:06 <boklm> if the version from the Debian package is good enough, it seems better to avoid building it ourself
17:42:35 <sisbell> +1
17:42:41 <GeKo> let's try that out then
17:43:40 <GeKo> sisbell: i am still waiting to the gradle dependency update how-to
17:43:52 <GeKo> to close the topl and android-service update bugs
17:44:01 <GeKo> could you get to that this week as well?
17:44:08 <sisbell> ok, I'll check that today. I must have missed it
17:44:17 <sisbell> Yes, definitely
17:44:34 <GeKo> oh, and before i forget it could you open new tickets for the tor-android-service patches your wrotte
17:44:38 <GeKo> but we did not pick up yet?
17:44:52 <sisbell> Yes, would that be in new ticket system?
17:44:52 <GeKo> we should get them reviewd soon
17:44:59 <GeKo> just in trac for now
17:45:02 <sisbell> ok
17:45:16 <GeKo> okay, thanks
17:45:35 <GeKo> acat: you are up
17:45:53 <acat> well, it was tjr asking for that item i think
17:46:13 <tjr> yea
17:46:21 <tjr> Remote Settings covers a lot of stuff
17:46:36 <tjr> Probably won't be that hard to run down but LMK if you need help
17:46:46 <GeKo> what we allow for now is
17:46:54 <GeKo> a) blocklist updates
17:47:05 <GeKo> and b) extension update checks
17:47:16 <tjr> certificate blocks?
17:47:23 <GeKo> i think that's okay to keep for the time being at least
17:47:23 <tjr> ah thats a blocklist
17:47:28 <GeKo> yes
17:47:58 <GeKo> i am not sure yet what new things esr68 brings us
17:48:15 <GeKo> but we might want to decide on a case-to-case basis here too
17:48:38 <GeKo> although all the activity stream things are not needed/wanted i think
17:49:45 <mcs> acat: I see we both have #31607 on our list for this week. We should coordinate efforts.
17:50:17 <GeKo> mcs: is that the bug where users complain they can not close tor browser anymore?
17:50:21 <acat> oops, sorry. got cc'd and interpreted like should investigate
17:50:36 <GeKo> i've seen that mentioned on our blog
17:50:39 <mcs> acat: either way :)
17:50:42 <acat> but if it's only for mac, maybe it makes more sense that you take it
17:50:49 <mcs> GeKo: probably the same issue
17:51:08 <mcs> I assume it is mac only; brade and I will take a look and update the ticket
17:51:16 <GeKo> okay. i then point to that ticket
17:51:17 <GeKo> thanks
17:51:49 <GeKo> anything else for the status update part today?
17:52:46 <GeKo> sisbell: oh, yes, could you add the link to the android gradle plugin repo to the ticket?
17:53:01 <GeKo> okay
17:53:04 <GeKo> discussion time then
17:53:24 <GeKo> mcs: regarding how many alpha users
17:53:27 <GeKo> hm.
17:53:42 <GeKo> let me see
17:53:55 <mcs> I asked because I was surprised more tickets have not been opened already. But then I looked at the blog and issues are being raised in comments.
17:54:08 <mcs> So not too important to have a number :)
17:54:41 <mcs> (my concern is that the number is low but I do not have any data)
17:54:55 <GeKo> i think you are right with your concern
17:55:12 <GeKo> but it seems we don't separate between alpha and stable
17:55:15 <boklm> maybe we could get number of alpha update pings by looking at web logs from https://metrics.torproject.org/collector.html#type-webstats
17:55:17 <GeKo> at least not on https://metrics.torproject.org/webstats-tb.html
17:55:26 <GeKo> yeah
17:55:27 <GeKo> probably
17:55:30 <GeKo> maybe
17:55:43 <GeKo> but i think we don't have that yet
17:56:13 <GeKo> mcs: on the other hand, we already filed a bunch of tickets because of starting to dogfood earlier
17:56:26 <boklm> I think the logs include all requests, so it could be computed from the logs (although that would require some work to do it)
17:56:31 <GeKo> so, i am not too concerned here
17:56:41 <GeKo> :)
17:56:51 <mcs> GeKo: yes, that is true. Maybe something to work on for the future then.
17:57:02 <boklm> maybe we could think about having separate graphs for the alpha and stable users
17:57:18 <mcs> boklm: Who would need to do that work?
17:57:20 <GeKo> boklm: yesm that would be good
17:57:26 <GeKo> *yes
17:57:41 <GeKo> i guess if we ask karsten and the data is there he would add it
17:57:49 <GeKo> *asked
17:58:29 <boklm> yes, I guess we need to open a ticket for metrics team and explain how to separate the requests for alpha and stable
17:59:19 <GeKo> care to do that? ;)
17:59:44 <boklm> ok, I can do it
17:59:49 <GeKo> thx
18:00:42 <GeKo> okay, anything else for today?
18:00:45 <mcs> thx
18:02:59 <pospeselr> the privacy workshop was certainly an experience
18:03:08 <GeKo> heh, i can imagine
18:03:11 <GeKo> :)
18:03:18 <pospeselr> i'm cleaining up my notes from the days and will post them later today
18:03:19 <pospeselr> somewhere
18:03:26 <GeKo> thanks
18:03:32 <mcs> pospeselr: thanks for attending
18:03:41 <GeKo> what's the general take-away you would give?
18:03:46 <GeKo> do we have lost?
18:03:52 <GeKo> are we winning?
18:03:59 <pospeselr> oof
18:04:04 <GeKo> :)
18:04:15 <pospeselr> well, there's very little that *everyone* agrees on
18:04:20 <pospeselr> adn that's mostly because google exists
18:04:36 <pospeselr> but everybody is on-board with double-keying *everything*
18:04:50 <sisbell> GeKo is now going to get a bunch of adverts about "winning"
18:04:53 <pospeselr> presumably because Google doesn't need it
18:04:58 <GeKo> yay
18:05:04 <GeKo> :)
18:05:17 <GeKo> why don't they need it?
18:05:43 <pospeselr> I guess because they the majority of their tracking in a 1st party context
18:05:52 <GeKo> aha
18:06:13 <GeKo> yeah, that's smart
18:06:22 <pospeselr> and they have all our emails and search histories and everything about us anyway the tracking stuff is basically competition to them
18:06:58 <GeKo> hey, and i thought for a short  moment we were winning :)
18:07:11 <pospeselr> the engineers are *very* concerned about maintaining the status quo of Google being the king of advertising and want any new things to allow them to keep that status
18:07:45 <sisbell> That's basic economics, when a company gets big enough, they want government and industry regulations to prevent competition
18:08:09 <pospeselr> yeah not surprising in abstract, but somewhat surprising it to see it in person
18:08:36 <pospeselr> anyway, i'll have notes up with plenty of (editorializing in the margins) later
18:08:57 <GeKo> thanks!
18:09:18 <GeKo> let's close this meeting then *baf*
18:09:21 <GeKo> #endmeeting