17:30:00 <GeKo> #startmeeting tor browser 2019/08/19
17:30:00 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Aug 19 17:30:00 2019 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:30:00 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:30:03 <GeKo> hello!
17:30:06 <sysrqb> o/
17:30:53 <GeKo> alright
17:30:58 <mcs> hi
17:31:01 <boklm> hi
17:31:02 <GeKo> https://storm.torproject.org/shared/tHoN4Ii7rLSjPE0OP4gydX4cMGadsXmRQNc-6lwru0N is the pad as usual
17:31:16 <antonela> hello!
17:31:17 <acat> hi
17:31:21 <GeKo> please add your items and mark things bold which need to get discussed
17:31:36 <pili> hi
17:31:48 <sisbell> hi
17:34:04 <GeKo> okay, pili you are first
17:34:24 <pili> ok, first item for me is that the OrfoxRIP app is ready to be pushed
17:34:41 <pili> we just need to write a blogpost about it
17:35:00 <pili> do I have any volunteers to write this? :)
17:35:45 <sysrqb> I can volunteer :)
17:35:50 <pili> thanks sysrqb :)
17:36:03 <pili> I can help you out if you need also
17:36:11 <sysrqb> *adds to pad*
17:36:13 <sysrqb> thanks
17:36:46 <pili> the next item is just to take a look at the email I sent about the task re-org
17:36:51 <pili> and a) fill out the doodle
17:37:04 <pili> (to figure out the next meeting time)
17:37:28 <pili> b) fill out the spreadsheet (to figure out other tasks that are done by people in the team + areas of expertise)
17:38:02 <pili> c) start thinking about your own capacity (to help us with roadmapping based on capacity during next week's team meeting)
17:38:46 <pili> ( d) let me know if you have any questions about any of this)
17:39:04 <pili> that's it from me
17:39:34 <GeKo> sounds good, thanks!
17:39:43 <GeKo> antonela: you are up
17:39:47 <antonela> thanks!
17:40:18 <antonela> guardian project folks are planning their next steps in onion browser and they want to match the ux with TBA
17:40:49 <antonela> i started a pad to list some of the work we have been doing on TBA land but i want to make sure that im not missing anything
17:41:04 <antonela> could you help me to give a review? GeKo, sysrqb?
17:41:43 <GeKo> i can
17:41:48 <antonela> other way to do this is adding you both to my thread with nathan and following up from there
17:41:54 <GeKo> by when do you need that?
17:42:05 <GeKo> whatever works for you best
17:42:20 <antonela> good question, not sure -- i can ask i think
17:42:45 <antonela> geko, cool thank you! i'll ping you offline to check on it
17:42:52 <GeKo> there is the tbb-parity keyword where we track parity issues between platforms that could be a good start
17:43:01 <GeKo> but i'll look anyway
17:43:02 <GeKo> thx
17:43:11 <antonela> GeKo: oohh good stuff - ues
17:43:12 <antonela> grr yes
17:43:46 <sysrqb> hrm. i wonder if the new UI/UX can inform users how onion browser is different from torbrowser
17:43:58 <sysrqb> without scaring the people or confusing them
17:44:03 <GeKo> where?
17:44:10 <GeKo> in tor browser?
17:44:14 <sysrqb> providing a consistent UX on mobile is a good idea
17:44:22 <sysrqb> GeKo: in onion browser
17:44:27 <GeKo> ah
17:44:36 <GeKo> that would be good imo
17:44:37 <sysrqb> i worry a little that if they look the same, then people will think they are the same
17:44:43 <GeKo> yeah
17:45:06 * pospeselr has arrived, reading scrollback
17:45:11 <GeKo> o/
17:45:13 <sysrqb> but i like the idea of providing a usable, consistent browser on both mobile platforms
17:45:16 <antonela> maybe? is something we can discuss - i celebrate the fact that they are considering to include things like the circuit display, some network settings, etc
17:45:36 <sysrqb> yeah, that is really good and cool
17:45:56 <antonela> oki, you both will be added to the thread and i'll move forward sneaking into the tbb-parity tickets :)
17:45:57 <antonela> thanksss
17:46:09 <sysrqb> alrighty :)
17:46:38 <antonela> that's all here
17:47:41 <GeKo> thanks
17:47:58 <GeKo> any other status updates worth discussing before we move on to the discussion part?
17:48:27 <GeKo> pospeselr: if i can be of help with the meeting prep let me know
17:48:40 <GeKo> i am happy to answer questions
17:48:53 <GeKo> and/or explain things in case they are not clear
17:49:49 <GeKo> i am not sure how much guidance you need/want to have etc.
17:50:00 <boklm> what is this meeting?
17:50:25 <GeKo> there is a meetup of different browser vendors
17:50:30 <pospeselr> aye aye, they finally got back to us with a meeting doc/schedule late last week so that's gonna be my first thing, that and reviewing the tbb design doc etc
17:50:36 <GeKo> about improving the privacy they provide to their users
17:50:41 <GeKo> and how to move forward
17:50:52 <boklm> ok, thanks
17:51:03 <pospeselr> but if there's anything that stands out as 'you really ought to know how this works and advocate for' I'd love to hear it
17:51:16 <sysrqb> (standardizing across all the major browsers)
17:51:33 <pospeselr> anyway we're gonna be talking about this with the moz folks tomorrow at the monthly
17:51:42 <sysrqb> (ah, now i see that was said :/)
17:51:58 <GeKo> i think digesting the design doc and acting in its spirit is solid thing to do
17:52:00 <GeKo> :)
17:52:03 <GeKo> okay, sounds good
17:52:13 <GeKo> i can't make that meeting as i am probably in a car at that time
17:52:23 <pospeselr> oof, my condolences GeKo
17:52:28 * antonela likes "acting in its spirit"
17:52:38 <GeKo> but i can check in early next week in case there is someting left to figure out
17:52:39 <pospeselr> (re being in  a car)
17:52:46 <GeKo> yeah
17:53:20 <GeKo> alright
17:53:25 <GeKo> discussion time
17:53:38 <GeKo> let's start with the next alpha
17:54:21 <GeKo> from what i read and heard we might be able to get all the toolchains up and patches rebased and merged this week
17:54:46 <GeKo> i know less about the mobile side, but sysrqb and sisbell does that sound reasonable for you?
17:55:10 <sysrqb> i think the we can finish the tor browser patches
17:55:19 <sysrqb> (firefox)
17:55:40 <sisbell> Yes, I have the new toolchain working with branc 9.0
17:55:49 <GeKo> nice
17:56:04 <sisbell> I just need to take each patch as it comes in to make additonal changes if it doesn't work
17:56:17 <GeKo> so assuming that works we'd have a couple of nightly builds (we already have linux ones for a while) before we need to build alphas
17:56:27 <GeKo> which is... approixmately in 8-9 days
17:56:46 <sysrqb> is there a stable release on that day, too?
17:56:50 <GeKo> yes
17:56:53 <sysrqb> koay
17:56:56 <sysrqb> *okay
17:56:59 <GeKo> based on 60.9.0
17:57:33 <GeKo> now in practice it turns out that the first alpha is in particular special as i last time spent the weekend before the actual release
17:57:38 <GeKo> fixing a bunch of release blockers
17:57:51 <sisbell> To get Android building for 60, we need to override the disable network flag
17:58:02 <GeKo> so, extrapolating from that this would give us almost two weeks :)
17:58:31 <GeKo> the question is: should we try to switch to esr68 in that alpha?
17:58:58 <GeKo> or should we aim for the first esr68 alpha, say, for a week later?
17:59:25 <sysrqb> can you tag the release in 1 week, and we try preparing the release then?
17:59:25 <GeKo> we have additionally the notarization issue that bothers me here
17:59:28 <GeKo> #30126
17:59:32 <sysrqb> ah, right.
17:59:48 <GeKo> i currently have no clue how to solve that one on time
18:00:08 <GeKo> but one of my sekrit plans was to use the next alpha to actually test that notarization
18:00:28 <GeKo> to be able to have another stable release just for macOS users with notarization enabled later on
18:00:35 <GeKo> but before 10.15 goes live
18:00:43 <GeKo> which is likely to happen at the end of september
18:00:58 <GeKo> and very likely to happen before tor browser 9 gets out
18:01:19 <GeKo> sysrqb: in principle i can, yes
18:02:33 <GeKo> for additional fun: i know we have at least for windows reproducibility issues
18:02:51 <GeKo> due to clang being used now
18:03:08 <GeKo> glandium said macOS is affected, too, which i'll try to verify
18:03:36 <GeKo> so, we might need to make more compromises here than we used to do
18:04:48 <GeKo> okay. let's see how far we are by next week with all the alpha prep
18:05:06 <GeKo> and the notarization bug and then make a final decision
18:05:19 <GeKo> (that gives everyone here as well time to think through the problem :) )
18:05:43 <sysrqb> heh. okay
18:06:09 <GeKo> boklm: i probably need mainly review help from you this week for the toolchain patches
18:06:28 <boklm> ok
18:06:31 <GeKo> the important patch to fix for the alpha is #31449
18:06:49 <GeKo> all the other bugs i opened today would be nice to get fixed for the alpha
18:07:04 <GeKo> but without that one solved we won't have signed updates
18:07:09 <GeKo> so it is blocking the release
18:07:31 <boklm> ok, I will do #31449 first
18:07:34 <GeKo> thx
18:08:14 <GeKo> i might ping you later for a "speed"-review for #30323 as i hope we can have macOS nightlies based on esr68 from tomorrow on
18:08:28 <boklm> ok
18:08:29 <GeKo> alright, exciting!
18:08:38 <GeKo> pili: you are up with gitlab
18:08:44 <pili> me again!
18:09:01 <GeKo> yeah!
18:09:29 <pili> yup, so I realised we have never discussed moving to gitlab within this team and I wanted to hear people's thoughts and requirements for this
18:10:08 <pospeselr> as a trac replacement?
18:10:11 <sysrqb> how are the other teams using gitlab?
18:10:27 <pili> pospeselr: yup
18:10:58 <pili> so for the UX and community team's we're trying to use it for both ticket and project management
18:11:28 <pili> so for community in particular to organise tasks that we need to do for projects
18:11:58 <pili> but it's still early days
18:12:33 <sysrqb> do you know how the network team are planning on using it?
18:13:32 <pili> so, they are using the kanban for planning out their work for the week, priorities and roadmap
18:13:59 <GeKo> i think the plan is to move to gitlab for everything
18:14:34 <pili> it does also have wiki capabilities
18:15:01 <sysrqb> okay, i wonder if this is something we should consider and discuss after October 16
18:15:24 <sysrqb> unless someone has strong feelings about it now :)
18:15:28 <pili> I'm fine with that also :)
18:15:39 <GeKo> wfm
18:15:58 <pili> also, if anyone wants to go in and have a look you should be able to by just recovering the password
18:16:05 * GeKo wonders what on oct 16 is, though :)
18:16:06 <pili> (as long as you have an LDAP account)
18:16:11 <pospeselr> unless gitlab has some truly bizarre design decisions, doesn't matter to me. So long as i can post/edit/search for tickets I'm good :p
18:16:38 <GeKo> it should have the option for private bugs which i long wanted which is good
18:16:55 <pospeselr> oooh, now that's a feature i didn't know i wanted until just now
18:17:06 <mcs> Can issues be moved between projects? (I am not sure if I am using the correct gitlab terminology)
18:17:29 <mcs> (users often file “tor” bugs which are really Tor Browser issues)
18:17:37 <pili> GeKo: yup, it has that
18:17:55 <sysrqb> GeKo: oh..i looked at the wrong month. "the day after we release 9.0" is what i wanted
18:18:03 <pili> mcs: not really, the issue has to be created in the right project
18:18:41 <mcs> pili: good to know. not fatal :)
18:19:16 <boklm> does it mean we'll have issues split between git repositories we use?
18:19:40 <brade> pili: I’d rather not refile a bunch of trac tickets in gitlab; migration would be VERY important
18:20:11 <pili> brade: yup, the migration should not be manual
18:21:29 <sysrqb> boklm: i think yes, one ticket per project
18:21:48 <sysrqb> i don't know if there a wayof creating a master ticket, such that each project-ticket is linked
18:22:49 <pili> you can have tags and a project board so that you can see all of the tickets related to a tag across projects in the kanban board for a team
18:22:54 <pili> if that makes sense...
18:23:13 <sysrqb> neat.
18:23:24 <boklm> ah, nice, that should help finding tickets
18:24:06 <mcs> help for creating tags would be nice, e.g., a pick list instead of having to remember the exact name
18:24:24 <mcs> (probably already there)
18:26:21 <GeKo> okay, anything else to discuss today?
18:26:37 <pili> mcs: yup. that exists
18:26:40 <pili> I'm good
18:26:41 <brade> were we going to discuss something with Al?
18:26:48 <pili> yup
18:26:52 <pili> in the next hour
18:27:09 <alsmith> hi! yes, after this, discussing what it will take to move from ESR migration process
18:28:15 <GeKo> okay, let's end this thing then and have a 2min break, thanks everyone *baf*
18:28:17 <GeKo> #endmeeting