18:01:58 <GeKo> #startmeeting tba-a2
18:01:58 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Sep 11 18:01:58 2018 UTC.  The chair is GeKo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:58 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:02:06 <sysrqb> Phoul: i think they're in the other room
18:02:15 <GeKo> oh, it works even, nice
18:02:25 <antonela> o/
18:02:30 <Phoul> sysrqb: thanks
18:02:37 <sysrqb> :)
18:02:54 <t0mmy> Hey hey!
18:03:00 <GeKo> seems we miss igt0 here
18:03:17 <sisbell> hey
18:03:25 <GeKo> t0mmy: i gues you like to be in the manuial meeting?
18:03:28 <GeKo> *guess
18:03:33 <GeKo> that's next door
18:03:36 <GeKo> :)
18:03:38 <t0mmy> GeKo yep, sorry :)
18:03:47 <antonela> haha
18:03:47 <GeKo> ah, no worries
18:04:44 <GeKo> alright, should we wait for igt0 or should we start?
18:05:06 <sysrqb> maybe 1 more minute?
18:06:46 <sysrqb> okay, igt0 can catch up, i think
18:06:56 <GeKo> yo
18:07:04 <GeKo> we have https://pad.riseup.net/p/nlhgUPXcS8SK
18:07:27 <GeKo> i think we need two additional alpha releases
18:07:35 <GeKo> and grouped items around them
18:08:02 <GeKo> does that make sense from a birds-eye-view?
18:09:06 <GeKo> i tried to associate folks to particular work areas but that's still open for moving around
18:09:07 <sisbell> makes sense
18:09:24 <sysrqb> yes
18:09:29 <GeKo> so, it's not set in stone yet and i am open to suggestions
18:10:02 <GeKo> i think we can move the f-droid item to the update story item
18:10:25 <GeKo> and we should probably aim that for the second alpha
18:10:43 <sysrqb> ah, yes. i wasn't sure what you meant by "update story"
18:10:51 <sysrqb> now i understand :)
18:11:05 <GeKo> :)
18:11:10 <antonela> sorry, what is the update story?
18:11:12 <GeKo> well, it's part of it
18:11:18 <antonela> moving users from orfox?
18:11:21 <GeKo> how we plan to provide updates
18:11:26 <antonela> ohh ok
18:11:26 <GeKo> for tor browser for android
18:11:28 <antonela> thanks
18:11:38 <GeKo> let me rewrite that
18:11:57 <sysrqb> migration from orfox to TBA is another pice of this puzzle
18:12:03 <sysrqb> piece
18:12:12 <GeKo> yes
18:12:20 <GeKo> when do we want to have that ready
18:12:28 <GeKo> is that for a2 or a3?
18:14:12 <GeKo> sysrqb: what's the plan anyway with orfox until we have tba ready?
18:14:34 <GeKo> do we announce (now) that it is deprecated as it is based on esr52
18:14:41 <GeKo> and there are no security updates anymore?
18:15:20 <sysrqb> i've been thinking about this.
18:15:38 <sysrqb> orfox is in a bad situation
18:15:46 <GeKo> yes
18:15:53 <sysrqb> i'm worries about migrating users to TBA now
18:17:10 <sisbell> could they do release of orfox that contains information about migrating to TBA (maybe a nag option)
18:17:43 <sysrqb> well, i don't think TBA ia ready for everyone right now
18:18:09 <sysrqb> so we currently have a situation where the old thing shouldn't be used
18:18:13 <sysrqb> but the new thing isn't ready yet
18:18:31 <sysrqb> but i guess the new thing is better than nothing, hopefully?
18:19:06 <sysrqb> but, at the same time, if the new thing isn't stable for some users, then they'll stop using it entirely and never try it again in 6 months, after the stable release is published
18:19:10 <sysrqb> hey igt
18:19:27 <sysrqb> err, igt0
18:19:31 <igt0> hi!
18:20:00 <GeKo> hihi
18:20:26 <GeKo> sysrqb: so when do we want to tackle the migration piece?
18:20:56 <GeKo> given the big items in any of the alpha milestones to come
18:21:09 <GeKo> it seems there is always the risk we will break stuff (badly)
18:21:22 <GeKo> or should we wait after a3?
18:21:59 <sysrqb> i think a2 is a good target
18:22:19 <sysrqb> it should be more stable than a1 and it won't be worse than orfox
18:22:56 <sysrqb> we don't have f-droid ready by then, but i think that's okay
18:23:25 <GeKo> okay, let me add this as a should item and  for a3 as a must one
18:23:28 <sysrqb> igt0: http://meetbot.debian.net/tor-meeting2/2018/tor-meeting2.2018-09-11-18.01.log.txt (backlog, btw)
18:23:42 <sysrqb> okay, sounds good
18:24:52 <GeKo> hm, localized builds
18:25:26 <GeKo> i guess i could work on that while working on #27466
18:25:34 <GeKo> as i noted on #26483
18:25:41 <GeKo> so, we could add it to the a2 list
18:26:20 <sysrqb> yeah, i believe a2 was the target for (starting to) provide them
18:26:57 <igt0> about localized builds there is also the "issue" how to use tor button localized data on mobile. Because Android has its own localized strings.
18:27:23 <GeKo> yes, we need to solve that while we are at it
18:30:13 <GeKo> igt0: is that #26782?
18:30:41 <GeKo> or do we need an additional ticket for that specific part?
18:31:36 <sysrqb> i thik there was another ticket, too
18:32:03 <igt0> Probably we need an additional ticket.
18:32:15 <GeKo> hm, okay don't find it right now while skimming tbb-mobile ones, will look later
18:33:06 <GeKo> i feel that using necko and the other build might be out of scope for 1.0
18:33:27 <GeKo> i mean could try to have the arm and x86 builds ready for a3 (or just one of them)
18:33:43 <GeKo> but i think it's more important to not delay tba further
18:34:44 <sisbell> which version of arm are we targeting
18:34:46 <sysrqb> okay, no, i was remembering #27125
18:34:53 <sysrqb> i think we do need another ticket for torbutton
18:35:06 <GeKo> okay, i'll file one latre
18:35:09 <GeKo> *later
18:35:24 <sysrqb> sisbell: arm-linux-androideabi
18:35:56 <sysrqb> adding another arch is actually quite easy
18:36:51 <sysrqb> we only replace the `ac_add_options --target=` line with the different arch
18:36:59 <GeKo> well, i would not be surprised running in different reproducibility issues
18:37:08 <GeKo> (given past experiences :) )
18:37:11 <sysrqb> yes, that may be true
18:37:22 <sysrqb> we'll see when to-browser-build is ready :)
18:37:40 <GeKo> but i am fine giving it a try once the whole thing is ready for what we are targetting now
18:37:43 <GeKo> yep
18:37:53 <GeKo> okay, let's add it as a should for a3
18:38:00 <sysrqb> okay
18:39:16 <GeKo> i can go over tickets and doing some triage, too, but i guess that could wait for mexico where we probably hammer down the details
18:40:09 <GeKo> antonela: do we have special ux items we should take into account?
18:40:28 <GeKo> apart from the more abstract "UX parity to desktop"?
18:40:33 <antonela> yes, onion padlock and circuit display is part of the ux parity
18:40:44 <GeKo> yep
18:40:45 <antonela> and i would like to give a review on it -> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/attachment/ticket/25764/25764-5.png
18:41:18 <GeKo> s/give/have/?
18:41:27 <antonela> basically a few months ago we finished with it in desktop with a question about if we will match the icon at the url bar and the icon at the circuit display
18:41:39 <igt0> antonela, about it, could you also add an example how it should look on a tablet? (portraint and landscape)
18:41:47 * antonela founds https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/23247#comment:66
18:42:07 <antonela> igt0 you already have it attached on the ticket
18:42:11 <antonela> let me find it
18:42:33 <antonela> https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/attachment/ticket/25764/24309%20-%20tba%20-%20tablets.png
18:43:03 <antonela> GeKo, sorry have :)
18:43:35 <GeKo> yes, i think having the onion there is a good idea
18:43:54 <GeKo> do we have a follow-up bug for that on desktop?
18:44:36 <antonela> i didn't fill that ticket, but i have it remaining in my back brain
18:44:52 <GeKo> :)
18:45:06 <antonela> i included a circuit display and onion padlock review for mexico, so this small details are part of that review
18:45:17 <GeKo> i can file it later, so that we all have it in our front brain :)
18:45:29 <antonela> thanks :)
18:46:10 <GeKo> antonela: okay, does the proposed stuff for a2 and a3 work for you from an ux pov?
18:46:19 <GeKo> or do we need to get items added?
18:46:45 <antonela> nono, that is all
18:47:11 <antonela> igt0 you ok about those items?
18:47:42 <igt0> antonela, yep!
18:47:50 <antonela> cool
18:48:36 <GeKo> okay, then we have the version numbering item on the pad
18:50:08 <GeKo> hm.
18:50:48 <GeKo> i mean we could use 8.5aX as a version number aiming for having tba live in the 8.5 cylce
18:50:51 <GeKo> or near it
18:50:56 <GeKo> *cycle
18:51:24 <GeKo> especially as we want to have the same version numbers across plattforms later on anyway
18:51:30 <GeKo> *platforms
18:52:18 <GeKo> dunno, i don't have strong opinions about the when and how
18:52:25 <GeKo> i'd leave this for later
18:52:58 <sysrqb> when would 8.5 become stable?
18:53:16 <GeKo> we could be flexible here. it's not set yet
18:53:25 <GeKo> or we could even make it dependent on tba
18:53:33 <sysrqb> okay, that's good
18:53:40 <sysrqb> i'm okay with this plan right now
18:54:01 <GeKo> usually it's been about two release before we needed to start with the esr60 transition
18:54:21 <GeKo> to have some time to work on major new things for X.5
18:54:40 <GeKo> and then have those out of the way when we slowly need to start with a new esr preparation
18:54:52 <sysrqb> hrm so 68.0esr is due out 2019-07-08
18:55:00 <GeKo> but i guess that would be too late for tba getting stable this time
18:55:01 <GeKo> yes
18:55:17 <GeKo> (at least i hope it would :) )
18:55:25 <sysrqb> yes :)
18:55:43 <GeKo> but we can cross that bridge later on
18:55:53 <sysrqb> yeah
18:55:58 <GeKo> in general i am fine binding the 8.5 release to the tba progress
18:56:10 <sysrqb> okay, cool
18:56:27 <GeKo> (although i hope we have a bunch of major items ready by then like #3600)
18:56:51 <GeKo> okay, does the pad sound like a good plan?
18:56:58 <GeKo> or is there something missing right now?
18:57:09 <antonela> sounds like a plan, which is good!
18:57:51 <sysrqb> sounds like a good plan for me right now!
18:58:59 <antonela> today, a major newspaper in latam released an article about tba
18:59:12 <antonela> https://www.infobae.com/america/tecno/2018/09/10/llega-tor-para-android-como-navegar-desde-el-celular-sin-que-nadie-te-espie/
18:59:27 <GeKo> igt0: sisbell: are you fine with the pad items as well?
18:59:28 <sysrqb> woah
19:00:27 <sysrqb> :)
19:00:33 <antonela> (:
19:01:16 <igt0> GeKo, yep, it makes sense.
19:02:11 <GeKo> okay, i think we are done here. anything else?
19:02:31 <sisbell> it looks ok
19:02:31 <antonela> im groot
19:02:32 <sysrqb> nothign from me
19:02:38 <sysrqb> antonela: :)
19:02:38 <antonela> thanks people! congrats for this release!
19:02:44 <GeKo> thanks all!
19:02:46 <GeKo> #endmeeting