14:58:21 #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly Meeting 2024-03-11 14:58:21 Meeting started Mon Mar 11 14:58:21 2024 UTC. The chair is richard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:58:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 14:58:25 morning everyone 14:58:31 the pad as usual: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-tbb-keep 15:01:07 Nothing major to announce this week 15:01:19 it's that time of the month again, which means rebases and security backports \o/ 15:02:38 the next two weeks are also a bit busy with hiring/interviews stuffs, so if you need something from those of us on the comittee please be patient with us :) 15:03:22 who is on the comittee? 15:03:37 bellatchau will also be reschedulling the sponsor 131 meeting on Tuesday because of said interviewing conflicts so just be aware of that 15:03:43 henry-x: myself, PieroV, and clairehurst 15:04:34 we've a release meeting scheduled today for 1800 which i presume we aren't going to cancel for once :) 15:04:45 but beyond that, I'm out of news and info to drop 15:05:13 is anyone blocked on anything, MRs in needs-review limbo, further discussion points from you all? 15:06:07 I have a discussion point 15:06:49 About switching everybody to the checklist format instead of planned + actual for the pad 15:07:10 I have a question: I've been collecting my time spent on "feature" vs "maintenance" work. Right now it is just data in a spreadsheet. How much longer should we collect this info for, and when and how will it be collected? 15:07:38 Also interested on that. I'm keeping raw data with time spent on each task 15:08:15 So, I'll need to organize it into categories for when we want to analyze the data 15:08:40 oh ive just been putting it into the pad 15:09:13 yes, please put it in the pad with your updates each week 15:09:32 PieroV: any background on the format change? I'm guessing this was discussed somewhere where I wasn't around? 15:09:33 (I've been going through and coallating into an offline master spreadsheet) 15:10:06 i would say the checklist format is easier for me and my personal tracking of things I do, though sometimes it's hard to keep it up to date 15:10:12 case in point i apparently didn't do anything last week 15:10:27 Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]: no background discussion 15:10:52 I've started testing it, and at the moment I prefer it 15:11:00 ah, ok 15:11:13 (I came to update it during the week) 15:11:14 I mean, I'll go with whatever everyone else is doing 15:12:00 * thorin : obligatory mention about fingerprinting issues 15:14:44 richard: I guess using the pad for time tracking doesn't work that well for me: I have a few small tasks that aren't worth announcing in the pad, but add up. If I have PTO in a week, then the percentages for that week aren't representative for the overall percentage of time, i.e. would skew the average. And, I wipe my pad notes every two weeks. 15:15:25 I'm doing it on the pad as well, but I keep an offline copy of my pad section. 15:15:33 ok 15:16:07 maybe i should back up and perhaps explain the goal/desired results and then we can work forward from there to something actually useful for people 15:17:16 first the percentage tracking: the goal there is to get an idea for myself and bellatchau to determine how much capacity we have to do things that aren't the baseline maintenance+bug fixing+etc work that has to happen regardless of sponsors, deadlines real-world considersations, etc 15:18:10 it's meant to be description the our lived realities (eg its a benchmark not a target) 15:20:04 this is important because as we grow our team, I'm necessarily growing more and more disconnected from the actual labor happening and so its increasingly difficult to accurately plan features+deliverables for sponsors 15:21:27 so being able to determine yes ok our team needs x% of time to keep the lights on (which i know it's not that simple, the maintence work isn't evenly distirbuted among people, or throughout the year) 15:23:11 mmm, so for it to be useful we should agree on a standardized and machine readable format which would allow bellatchau and richard to coalesce, group, graph and so on this data (or a script which converts e.g. the pad notes to such a format) 15:23:11 I don't think maintenance is also very clear as a label. E.g., blocking fingerprinting vectors are in between: something old needs to be patched to prevent them, but they are also sort of new features 15:23:13 Ot osm 15:23:20 It isn't as maintenance as rebasing 15:23:58 PieroV: I guess "feature" has to be part of some larger sponsor project 15:24:24 right, I lumped all the sec stuff in maintanance so far, and used the feature label on gitlab for feature 15:24:39 Richard shared the core reasons for us to get this benchmark, and ma1 touched on important points about standardization. Does it make sense for us to have a specific team meeting to go over this? We can present/share different formats and see what works best for everyone? 15:25:01 Yes please 15:25:40 re tracking what folks are doing/planning to do in the pad, I'm using my section mostly to track things that need to happen so i don't forget about it (with some success); I don't typically use other people's section apart from using it to get a birds-eye-view of what the team is working on at any given time so I can stay aprise of things in case they're happening on a gitlab or email thread i'm not paying close enough attention to 15:26:05 I was just collecting time spent on "feature" vs "maintenance", so that I can say between "X" and "Y" date, I spent A% time on features, B% time on maintenance and C% on miscellaneous. 15:26:15 i'm also happy to devoce this time to this discussion re what people think is useful to track, a better format, etc 15:27:19 (It sounds like external contributors such as myself are not really relevant to this motive?) 15:27:54 fwiw the way I've been tracking on the pad is one line per task/bug, with a trailing %\d\d (F|M|O) which could be easily transformed in any format by a script. 15:28:03 jeremy: not really, we don't (explicitly) depend on you for meeting deadlines so it's probably not relevant to either of us for you to track that 15:28:47 richard: sounds good, thanks. I *am* curious what your numbers end up looking like. 15:29:43 ma1:fwiw, a script-readable format would be pretty excellent 15:30:57 Jeremy_Rand_36C so am I :) I like the idea of discussing this here, but I propose a more in depth meeting to arrive at a common ground. I can collate the discussion we have here with the formats y'all suggest and we can go over it at the meeting 15:31:47 that works for me 15:31:50 ma1 I also like this idea of script sorcery 15:32:44 the last thing i want to do is request extra annoyance when it's not worth, so however we can streamline/minimise the mental overhread the ebtter 15:33:04 or an email thread with the proposed formats? 15:33:40 ^I do like when meetings are replaced with emails 15:34:25 start with en email thread then move to a meeting if it becomes necessary? 15:34:53 second that! 15:35:09 +1 15:35:35 Yes :) 15:40:22 ok any further discussion points? 15:40:35 richard: only a small one 15:41:22 richard: Arthur is partway through the TorButton Namecoin refactor, but he ran into some build system issues; there is a chance that he or I will be asking about those build issues on IRC in the next week or so 15:41:43 Probably we will be able to sort it out without assistance though 15:41:52 ok :) 15:41:56 But yeah anyway that work is proceeding 15:42:09 lord knows between the two of you you've done a fair share of build stuffs :D 15:42:20 lol indeed 15:42:58 anyway nothing else from me 15:43:03 alright 15:43:05 in that case 15:43:08 have a good week everyone o/ 15:43:15 thanks! 15:43:15 grazie, ciao! 15:43:23 Thanks, bye! 15:43:30 #endmeeting