14:58:26 <richard> #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly Meeting 2023-12-18
14:58:26 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Dec 18 14:58:26 2023 UTC.  The chair is richard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
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14:58:29 <jagtalon> o/
14:58:32 <richard> we are getting periolousy close to 2024
14:58:32 <richard> somehwo
14:58:50 <richard> the pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-tbb-keep
14:59:08 <ruihildt[m]> o/
14:59:56 <richard> 13.0.7 is signed and ready for release tomorrow
15:00:45 <richard> this is our first time optimistically doing the mullvad browser release early without waiting for the android backports which (among some other tweaks to the release process) seems to have worked out a bit better than prior releases
15:01:32 <ruihildt[m]> It feels weird.
15:01:40 <richard> last week mullvad began standing up a system where we can push buidl requests to their infra and hopefully over the next few releases we can iron out inefficiencies there
15:01:48 <richard> build requests*
15:02:39 <ma1> ruihildt[m], "It feels weird" like in "too good to be true"? :)
15:03:24 <richard> if any of you want to chat w/ me re isa's mail to tor-internal last week feel free to ping me in DMs or we can chat via signal or bbb
15:05:19 <richard> my plan for this week is to do the 13.5a3 release asap and continue chipping away at the design doc and whatever other suprises pop up
15:05:47 <richard> in other news we've also made an initial inquiry to mozilla about adding build reproducibility of the openh264 codec build system
15:06:20 <richard> and so far the relevant area owner seems positive about helping and improving things there
15:06:46 <dan_b> oohhhhh that would be nice
15:07:04 <richard> which will open us up to have full/better webrtc support down the line when UDP in the tor network is a thing (and helps out mullvad brwoser in the medium term)
15:07:52 <richard> ok, with that i'lll hand it off to any discussion points y'all have and then we can top it off with a s96 update
15:08:59 <richard> OH wait one more thing from me
15:09:13 <richard> it's grant application time (always)
15:09:42 <richard> i'll send a mail out after this meeting about task estimates around future connect assist and arti stuffs for the team to review
15:10:30 <richard> i don't see any other discussion points apart from s96, so dan_b, clairehurst, PieroV how goes connect-assist on Android?
15:10:47 <dan_b> settings now load and save in geckoview java!
15:11:02 <dan_b> so this week i'll be looking at next wiring that into firefox-android
15:11:23 <richard> (to the about:config prefs/TorSettings module ?)
15:11:25 <clairehurst> Pretty good, I figured out how to hide the toolbar for HTML view and ironing out a way to avoid needing to restart the app to have the changes take effect in regard to tor-browser#42323
15:11:44 <clairehurst> Plus basic UI for that ticket is fully set up
15:12:00 <PieroV> richard: we should wait for that for alpha imho
15:12:23 <richard> until after the break or until like Thus?
15:12:24 <PieroV> At least to play with it during the break
15:12:29 <ruihildt[m]> I talked about it with PieroV, we'll have a build person starting in January at Mullvad, and first assignment will be signing macOS MB build with our own cert.
15:12:29 <ruihildt[m]> I'd like to have something for that person to get started.
15:12:58 <PieroV> I think we all decided that we wanted the switch in 13.5a3 at last week's release meeting
15:13:29 <dan_b> what was the final switch? between claire's new UI and the tor-browser html UI for bootstrap?
15:13:51 <PieroV> I think at least to enable the new backend
15:13:56 <PieroV> To see if tor dies in real usage
15:14:44 <richard> ruihildt: fortunately all our signing scripts are public and in source control so replicating the macOS signing+notarising should be easy enough for them to do
15:15:29 <richard> yes if we could get that flow in alpha by the end of the week that would be great
15:15:50 <dan_b> but yeah, what ever the settings pane is on firefox-android, it needs to speak to the new TorSettings in case pierov's new UI is up
15:15:59 <richard> and i'm happy to release over the weekend if you need thursday for dev as well
15:16:28 <PieroV> dan_b: I think some testing even without bridges could be useful
15:16:47 <dan_b> testing is usually good
15:16:51 <dan_b> what'd you have in mind?
15:17:11 <boklm> ruihildt[m]: our signing scripts are in this directory: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser-build/-/tree/main/tools/signing?ref_type=heads
15:17:14 <PieroV> The MR for the gate seemed already good enough for me
15:17:42 <PieroV> If switching to the native UI doesn't work we can disable that checkbox and tease with something like "Coming soon" :)
15:17:57 <ruihildt[m]> Thanks
15:18:32 <boklm> ruihildt[m]: and documentation for rcodesign (the tool we use) is in: https://gregoryszorc.com/docs/apple-codesign/main/
15:18:52 <ma1> PieroV, would you release alpha with default to new stuff and direct bug-finders to disable it?
15:19:17 <PieroV> No, I would default it to the legacy components
15:20:45 <dan_b> so if that's the case, all the settings pane will need ifs based on the toggle as to where to load/save thier settings for hte moment?
15:20:50 <PieroV> But I think having the thing in alpha would be good also for us (I dog food alphas also in my personal device, but I don't use custom alphas)
15:21:09 * ma1 wonders how many alpha users we've got actually, under the impression bugs are found on stable only :(
15:21:24 <ma1> +1 on dog fooding
15:22:00 <boklm> it's possible to dog food nightly too
15:22:15 <PieroV> Dog fooding on nightly scares me, because there are Mozilla features enabled on Android
15:22:29 <richard> tens of thousands for Android iirc
15:22:32 <richard> re alpha users
15:23:17 <boklm> should we fix that? (not enable mozilla nightly features on our nightly channel)
15:23:34 <PieroV> boklm: there's an issue about that
15:23:53 <PieroV> But I don't know how long it could take
15:24:20 <PieroV> Basically, on Android there isn't an option to customize branding, as far as we know
15:25:03 <PieroV> But I'd like if we found a way to build everything with the release configuration, and customize branding separately
15:25:31 <clairehurst> re alpha users, 218K installed audience compared to 5.08M for stable
15:25:45 <clairehurst> (for android)
15:25:49 <richard> hundredss of thousands for Android iirc*
15:25:49 <richard> :3
15:27:14 <boklm> (ready the previous lines, I understood we had tens of thousands of nightly Mozilla features enabled on Android)
15:27:34 <richard> heh
15:28:23 <richard> maybe 'fixing' the nightly channel is something for the next major ESR update over the summer
15:29:16 <richard> ok on to the other half of the s96 work
15:29:23 <richard> Lox
15:29:33 <richard> i heard we had some sync with anticensorship this morning?
15:29:49 <PieroV> Yes
15:31:15 <richard> so what's going on there?
15:31:16 <PieroV> We should develop a backend module separately from the frontend
15:31:50 <PieroV> Because Lox will need to ping the Lox authority every now and then for updates
15:32:11 <PieroV> Henry is working on the frontend this week
15:32:38 <PieroV> So, it makes sense that someone else is working on the backend
15:33:10 <PieroV> I think I'm not very needed for Android S96 stuff now (but I can be pinged if needed, of course)
15:33:18 <PieroV> So, it's something I can follow
15:33:38 <PieroV> I'm still not sure how the work will be divided between our team and AC team
15:34:02 <PieroV> We'll have to sync, but I don't know yet if it's more they tell us how lox works and the expected flows
15:34:27 <PieroV> Or if it'll be something more like we tell them what browser mechanisms could be used for what purpose
15:34:41 <richard> we'd initially planned for cohosh to do the majority of the backend module work, but she's been out
15:34:56 <richard> though oninyang said she should be back this week
15:35:07 <cohosh> hi
15:35:14 <richard> so yeah i think supporting cohosh as much as possible this week should be a top priority for you PieroV
15:35:18 <richard> good morning o/
15:35:20 <PieroV> Yep, that's why I say I'm not sure eventually how we'll do :) We'll see in the following hours I think :)
15:35:37 <PieroV> wfm
15:37:04 <henry-x> yeah, I'm putting together what kind of API surface I would like right now
15:37:30 <richard> perfect
15:38:51 <richard> ok if there are no more points of discussion
15:38:56 <richard> i'm happy to end this meeting
15:39:08 <richard> (I just sent you all a mail about those task estimates)
15:39:27 <ma1> received
15:41:59 <richard> ok then folks
15:42:04 <richard> have a wood week and see you all on irc
15:42:06 <richard> #endmeeting