's back on the menu boys 18:37:19 <richard> tor-browser#41736 is merged apart from in Mullvad Brwser alpha 18:37:30 <richard> re tor-browser#41608 18:37:55 <donuts> oh cool 18:38:36 <richard> poked henry about it 18:38:42 <donuts> thanks 18:38:47 <donuts> okay our list is now 8.5 issues long 18:38:51 <donuts> which is less scary 18:39:03 <donuts> and a few of these are asset swaps/copy paste jobs 18:39:33 <PieroV> donuts: are there any regressions from S30 testing? 18:39:43 <richard> ok, the asset swaps are currently all on dan_b, but I think I'll ask henry-x to pick those up off of him as they have free time 18:39:45 <PieroV> In that case we should count 1 more issue about fixing them 18:39:55 <richard> and between the two they *should* all be doable 18:40:13 <PieroV> Also, don't we have an Android asset swap, too? 18:40:18 <donuts> pierov: no regressions, but I was going to post a ticket about pasting the Connect button UX from the built-in bridges dialog to the other dialogs 18:40:22 <donuts> ... and making it purple 18:40:39 <PieroV> Oh, okay, so no blockers on your side for 12.5a6? 18:40:40 <richard> the onion service icons too 18:40:45 <donuts> pierov: just the onion-site icon issue, I didn't prepare anything else 18:40:47 <richard> include an Android potion 18:40:52 <richard> yep 18:40:55 <donuts> right :D 18:41:04 <PieroV> donuts: oh, no new first screen icon? 18:41:20 <PieroV> I liked the placeholder more than the current icon :) 18:41:29 <richard> that icon swap should be an easy one :3 18:41:32 <donuts> sorry I forgot I emailed you those mockups, the placeholder's actually from our USAGM project 18:42:05 <donuts> I think it should probably wait until we redo the connection UX for android tbh 18:42:25 <donuts> although I hear you :) 18:42:36 <PieroV> ack. The Android part should probably be dan's, he's probably the faster in this kind of job 18:42:38 <PieroV> :) 18:42:56 <richard> donuts: well if we do things *right* the android connection UX will just be the existing desktop UX 18:43:18 <PieroV> I wanted to ask him for some help for 115 before the nightly period ended, to get them upstream 18:43:20 <richard> but hopefully formatted for androdi screens 18:43:39 <donuts> yep! 18:43:40 <richard> yes agreed 18:44:11 <donuts> okay so looking at that list – how are we feeling on release dates? 18:44:27 <PieroV> So, we have less then two months 18:44:36 <PieroV> And time passes too quickly 18:44:50 <richard> ideally these are all in 12.5a7 18:45:06 <richard> maybe some in 12.5a6 18:45:15 <donuts> Cool, I expect the odd one may not make it either – and that's fine 18:45:19 <PieroV> Knee jerk I'd say we could release a little bit earlier, but we're always late 18:45:20 <richard> yeah 18:45:39 <donuts> so let's stick with July then yeah? 18:45:45 <PieroV> I skipped 12.5.2 18:45:48 <richard> given that these are primarily UX and of those primariy asset swaps 18:45:56 <richard> i think this is doable 18:45:56 <PieroV> So August would be 12.5.2, no 12.5.3 18:46:31 <PieroV> Err, end of August/September. So, only two updates for 12.5, and not so much time for 13.0 either 18:46:47 <PieroV> So, I think that some we said for 13.0 will be 13.5 18:47:29 <PieroV> (assuming we target late June for 12.5, so it'll be early July instead :D) 18:48:04 <donuts> we can review the 13.0 features list after 12.5 ships and see what needs bumped there too 18:48:24 <richard> agreed 18:48:31 <donuts> I'm going to try and have everything ready in advance of that release too, given the turnaround times 18:48:46 <richard> obviously i'd like to avoid any 'major' features in 13.0 since it's the esr release 18:48:52 <richard> bu we'll see how well our plans work out there 18:49:05 <PieroV> ack. Since 12.5a6 is coming out soonish, I think we'll need at least 12.5a7 18:49:12 <richard> looks like i need to update our release calendar regardless 18:49:19 <richard> PieroV: agreed 18:49:36 <PieroV> What if we planned a little bit earlier than July, so that we can do ESR minor update + first days amends? 18:49:44 <PieroV> Like we did last year 18:50:01 <richard> hm 18:50:11 <richard> ok we get 102.12 on June 5th 18:50:27 <PieroV> I.e., release around June 30, and then have 12.5.1 with immediate corrections around July 6 18:50:44 <richard> so plan on 12.5 a week or two after alpha 18:50:51 <richard> then 12.5.1 would be 102.13 18:51:07 <PieroV> Yes, a couple or three weeks after 102.12 18:51:10 <richard> sounds like a good plan to me actually 18:51:24 <PieroV> Like: 12.5a7 should be a sort of rc 18:51:41 <richard> ok 18:51:56 <PieroV> And only small things that really need to be fixed and can't be helped otherwise directly in 12.5 18:52:20 * ma1 is around, better later than never, and looking at the scroll back 18:52:41 <PieroV> ma1: TL;DR: we wanted to ask about the native implementation of tab guard 18:52:48 <PieroV> (is it what it's called? I never remember) 18:53:09 <PieroV> richard, donuts: doing a 12.5a7 means that we'll have to do a 12.0.7, too 18:53:22 <richard> PieroV: ok updated my todo list for the release calendar w/ the early release suggestion 18:53:28 <donuts> we may as well plan for it, because we almost always end up doing it anyway 18:53:41 <ma1> Yes, it's TabGuard 18:54:06 <richard> PieroV: why would we need a 12.0.7? 18:54:07 <ma1> donuts is right, there can be multiple domains. So two steps: one, making it non-blocking. 18:54:18 <richard> er sorry confused myself 18:54:29 <PieroV> richard: for security fixes if 12.5 arrives a couple of weeks later :D 18:55:07 <richard> right yeah 12.0.7 would be our regulraly scheduled esr update on stable for June 18:57:02 <richard> well this all seems fine then actually 18:57:28 <richard> does anyone know when the docs hackathon is supposed to be happening this summe? 18:57:30 <richard> summer* 18:57:40 <PieroV> It was intended end of May 18:57:53 <PieroV> We didn't consider it 18:58:01 <gaba> richard: we still did not start discussing a date 18:59:18 <richard> hm 18:59:54 <richard> well do y'all think it would be easier for us before our 12.5 release or during the 13.0 sprint vOv 19:00:27 <richard> i'd like to avoid a situation of 'hey we have this hackathon but actually your current work is implicitly hanging over your head' 19:01:03 <ma1> Making TabGuard's authorization removal non-blocking would remove the need of a high-attrition modal dialog. From there we could use even just a notification saying "If something doesn't work as expected, click here for more info/remediation" with whatever donuts believes is fit, and hoping in most cases it doesn't need to be even clicked. 19:01:30 <PieroV> Docs are actually a way to reason on why we do something and it could eventually make something better also on the real thing 19:01:37 <PieroV> And we really need them 19:01:38 <donuts> ma1: right, that could work! 19:02:25 <PieroV> ma1: and what are your feelings for getting it in 12.5? Do you think it's feasible? 19:02:27 <ruihildt[m]> Is there a concept for a permanent disabling of tabguard for a specific website? 19:02:49 <PieroV> ruihildt[m]: that would be a disk leak 19:03:02 <ma1> donuts, ok. I can try to have a NoScript prototyp behaving that way by next week if nothing catastrophic happens, and in the meanwhile you can suggest a UI. 19:03:18 <richard> in which case, maybe the hackathon should come after the 12.5 release 19:03:18 <ma1> ruihildt[m], anything permanent per-site is a bit of a no go for Tor Browser 19:03:19 <donuts> ma1: sounds great, ty! 19:03:36 <ruihildt[m]> ack 19:03:38 <richard> while things are fresh in our mind, and before the stress of oh god 13.0 is coming is fully realised 19:04:18 <ma1> ruihildt[m], but if it works for Mullvad it can be an option there (I already have means to tell the two browsers apart) 19:04:19 <donuts> ruihildt[m]: "allow for the rest of the session" is as close as we're going to get there 19:04:47 <PieroV> richard: After the 12.5 release is also after the end of fiscal year in the US, so people might be happy about that, or might not be that happy 19:05:08 <PieroV> It was the same period last year (well, "just" after, rather than a generic after) 19:05:12 <ruihildt[m]> Well, it could be useful, but we can look at it in step and wait for user feedback. 19:05:40 <ma1> ruihildt[m], wfm 19:05:44 <PieroV> ruihildt[m]: I think MB could benefit from some testing in alpha for this 19:06:03 <richard> not sure what you mean re end of fiscal year/why that matters here 19:06:10 <PieroV> richard: for grants 19:06:48 <PieroV> Several grants have some deadlines for end of June/beginning of July? 19:07:09 <richard> ohhh I see 19:07:59 <PieroV> (I think more end of June, IIRC last year it was the week that included exactly the end of June, but maybe the first week of July is okay, but not sure) 19:08:06 <ruihildt[m]> PieroV: now we have a reason to have the alpha channel.^^ 19:09:03 <PieroV> We need it so that I can also cherry-pick from 12.5aX to 13.0a ;) 19:09:26 <donuts> okay we are 10 minutes over the hour, shall we close the meeting and move the discussion to #tor-browser-dev? 19:09:39 <PieroV> I don't have anything else 19:09:47 <richard> yeah wfm 19:09:50 <PieroV> (but we're the last ones using this channel, according to the schedule) 19:11:05 <donuts> okay great, thanks both! 19:11:09 <donuts> #endmeeting

17:59:30 #startmeeting Tor Browser Release Meeting 2023-05-15 17:59:30 Meeting started Mon May 15 17:59:30 2023 UTC. The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:59:30 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:59:35 do we have a richard? 17:59:40 ack 17:59:55 awesome 17:59:57 pad is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-browser-release-meeting-keep 18:00:01 please fill 18:03:05 I think I'm having internet issues 18:03:16 however I'm still here apparently 18:05:00 I think I'm done for the pad 18:05:06 same 18:05:21 12.0.6 was released+published last week btw 18:05:40 and Rui's doing mullvad browser nowish I think 18:06:02 Still no signature on Windows installer, right? 18:06:08 not yet 18:06:17 earliest we can get a cert is Wednesday 18:06:24 so probably next week 18:06:29 In case are you signing the installer, right? 18:06:53 so the windows code-signing cert is only for the installer 18:06:58 (for now) 18:07:04 when's 12.0.7 scheduled for? 18:07:17 June 6 18:07:20 so we've just not been publishing an installer in the interim and relying on build-to-build upgrades 18:07:45 yeah, boklm had the genial idea to build incrementals from 12.0.4 18:07:48 okay cool, richard did you officially push 12.5 stable back then? 18:08:18 erm, i'm just going by the release calendar 18:08:23 Are we sure we want to push it to July? 18:08:25 let me heck the costa rica pad 18:08:33 It means July -> 12.5 18:08:37 maybe i didn't update the calendar 18:08:38 August -> 12.5.1 18:08:43 September -> 12.5.3 18:08:47 October -> 13.0 18:09:15 iirc August is a bit weird as here are two releases scheudled for it one at the start, one at the end 18:09:17 hem... 18:09:23 *hrm... 18:09:24 Right 18:09:30 https://whattrainisitnow.com/release/?version=esr 18:09:35 It's 4 weeks, not 1 month 18:09:39 yep 18:09:46 But it counts as September 18:09:49 right 18:09:54 And it isn't October, it's September 26 18:10:11 So, beginning of October for 13.0 :) 18:10:26 ok yes our costa rica notes/roadmap say July 6th for 12.5 18:11:03 yep and 13.0.0 in October 18:11:30 that's a very quick turnaround 18:11:34 for future reference: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-browser-release-meeting-keep 18:11:38 I think we could have a look at the final features list and then confirm if we actually want to wait almost two other months 18:11:55 PieroV: I think it would be a good idea for Mullvad Browser 18:12:01 since we don't have an alpha a tall right now 18:12:11 We have, just not built yet :) 18:12:14 an alpha release* 18:12:17 :p 18:12:20 yeah 18:12:29 (MB doesn't have the problem we have with TBB) 18:12:38 *the* problem? 18:12:45 *that* problem 18:12:57 oooh *that* problem 18:12:58 ;) 18:13:03 (fontconfig?) 18:13:05 Yes 18:13:11 true true 18:13:14 okay i've added "12.5 release date" to the agenda for after the features list 18:13:23 lmk when you're ready to talk features 18:13:30 We are 18:13:32 I think 18:13:38 yeah lets go 18:13:41 I'm interested in knowing at which point there would be a MB alpha. (Not to detract the current conversation) 18:13:41 okay great 18:13:53 The second point was just to let you know that we have another blocker, not only missing S30 features 18:14:19 pierov: ack, thanks 18:14:28 So I created a new label to track 12.5 features: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/?label_name%5B%5D=12.5%20stable 18:14:30 (not sure we want to talk also about the missing S30 features, unless it's part of the stable conversation) 18:14:37 ruihildt[m]: I think we'll have a 12.5a6 mullvad-browser alpha this month, 12.5a7 next and then 12.5 in July (if that makes sense to y'all) 18:14:51 ack 18:15:15 I'd like to do the same for 13.0, and then reserve the ESR 115 label for strictly ESR related tasks if that's cool richard? 18:15:25 yeah works for me 18:15:27 then anything we want to bump from the 12.5 label can be moved to a 13.0 label 18:15:28 cool 18:15:29 i was thinking the same over the weekend 18:15:33 I'll set that up real quick 18:15:41 Is it because we use milestones for sponsors? 18:15:53 pierov: yeah exactly 18:15:54 yeah pretty much 18:16:01 it's annoying, but it is what it is 18:16:15 we also use labels for sponsors :D 18:16:42 we do, it's confusing 18:16:46 milestones would be easier for releases 18:16:47 yes... we need to rethink how we use milestones. It may be better for specific short term goals instead of sponsors 18:17:12 o/ 18:17:18 hi gaba! o/ 18:17:23 I'd be delighted to do that :D 18:17:53 anyway for now, we still have 12 open issues tagged as 12.5 18:17:53 board with labes seems to be working much better for all of us for sponsors 18:18:19 that's great, liberate the milestones! 18:18:50 richard/pierov: can you cast your eye down the list, and let me know which issues are NOT going to get done in 12.5? 18:19:03 or if you're unsure, you can ask me how important I think they are? 18:20:10 probably makes sense to punt tor-browser#41423 to 13.0 18:20:12 about:tor is a big bet, doable in two months, unless we find surprises 18:20:26 since we're planning on redoing the whole thing anyway 18:20:36 yeah I was thinking we bump that too pierov 18:20:38 What's the difference with https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/41333 ? 18:20:47 I'd like to let it stew in alpha for a while 18:21:06 second ticket is for UX, but the two things will get done simultaneously 18:21:06 I mean, if we create it brand new, is tor-browser#41423 still needed? 18:21:35 not really but it's how we've been tracking a11y issues so far 18:22:12 okay they've been bumped 18:22:59 ok what about tor-browser#40885 18:23:06 haha I was just about to paste that 18:23:12 I didn't get around to finishing that one 18:23:12 I think it's purely dependent on UX at the moment 18:23:14 bump bump bump 18:23:28 possible for 13.0 depending 18:23:41 ma1: are you around? 18:23:44 probably lowest priority for that release 18:23:48 yeah 18:23:55 depends how wacky I get too 18:24:18 What's the current status for https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/41112 ? 18:25:03 that one's high priority for me, idk what the status is though 18:25:27 if it doesn't make it in time we may want to consider backporting it when ready instead 18:25:33 ack 18:25:33 tor-browser#41623 looks like its just an asset swap 18:26:14 +1 for trying to get 41112 in, let's see what Giorgio says if he's around later or in the next few days 18:26:25 (Still ok to ship that cross-leak UI improvement as a test on MB as soon as it's ready. :) ) 18:26:54 I *think* there might be a problem with the proposed UX for cross-tab leak UX though 18:28:08 i.e. it could be multiple domains, rather than just one 18:28:32 and the notification bar may not do a great job of containing that list 18:28:45 ruihildt[m]: ack :) 18:29:20 anyway, feel free to let me know in the ticket if that's the case 18:29:44 we'll have to wait and see once ma1 gets back I reckon 18:29:53 sure thing 18:30:17 tor-browser#40552 seems to have signed off UX, so just needs dev implmentation 18:30:18 I think we can split tor-browser#40552 into two 18:30:33 and do a simply string update for 12.5, and fancy UX for 13.0 18:31:05 that works for me 18:31:11 by fancy UX I mean the small bit of formatting and validation that's in there 18:31:20 yep, it seems something that needs to be tested in alpha for a bit 18:31:57 agreed 18:32:05 (I'm very excited by the possibility of having FEC in bridge URLs btw) 18:32:18 FEC? 18:32:28 Forward Error Correction 18:32:43 oh is this something out of Costa Rica? 18:33:00 We might not have it eventually, but we might plan to do something to have also some error correction 18:33:15 I mean, it's something that has been quickly talked about 18:33:19 tor-browser#41718 ok for 13.0 donuts? 18:33:20 Otherwise just a CRC 18:33:32 yeah the root of that ticket is that people paste bridge lines in incorrectly a lot, and there are multiple things we can do to help that 18:33:51 richard: yep that's fine, I think it might just be a copy-paste job though? 18:34:02 like it's just porting the warning from the dialog into about:downloads 18:34:07 I think it could be a tentative for 12.5 18:34:17 ok 18:34:24 No need to push it, yet 18:34:52 tor-browser#41608 is looking problematic 18:36:01 more info in the MR: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/merge_requests/639#note_2901965 18:36:30 I guess it just needs a UX decision 18:37:10 looks like 's back on the menu boys 18:37:19 <richard> tor-browser#41736 is merged apart from in Mullvad Brwser alpha 18:37:30 <richard> re tor-browser#41608 18:37:55 <donuts> oh cool 18:38:36 <richard> poked henry about it 18:38:42 <donuts> thanks 18:38:47 <donuts> okay our list is now 8.5 issues long 18:38:51 <donuts> which is less scary 18:39:03 <donuts> and a few of these are asset swaps/copy paste jobs 18:39:33 <PieroV> donuts: are there any regressions from S30 testing? 18:39:43 <richard> ok, the asset swaps are currently all on dan_b, but I think I'll ask henry-x to pick those up off of him as they have free time 18:39:45 <PieroV> In that case we should count 1 more issue about fixing them 18:39:55 <richard> and between the two they *should* all be doable 18:40:13 <PieroV> Also, don't we have an Android asset swap, too? 18:40:18 <donuts> pierov: no regressions, but I was going to post a ticket about pasting the Connect button UX from the built-in bridges dialog to the other dialogs 18:40:22 <donuts> ... and making it purple 18:40:39 <PieroV> Oh, okay, so no blockers on your side for 12.5a6? 18:40:40 <richard> the onion service icons too 18:40:45 <donuts> pierov: just the onion-site icon issue, I didn't prepare anything else 18:40:47 <richard> include an Android potion 18:40:52 <richard> yep 18:40:55 <donuts> right :D 18:41:04 <PieroV> donuts: oh, no new first screen icon? 18:41:20 <PieroV> I liked the placeholder more than the current icon :) 18:41:29 <richard> that icon swap should be an easy one :3 18:41:32 <donuts> sorry I forgot I emailed you those mockups, the placeholder's actually from our USAGM project 18:42:05 <donuts> I think it should probably wait until we redo the connection UX for android tbh 18:42:25 <donuts> although I hear you :) 18:42:36 <PieroV> ack. The Android part should probably be dan's, he's probably the faster in this kind of job 18:42:38 <PieroV> :) 18:42:56 <richard> donuts: well if we do things *right* the android connection UX will just be the existing desktop UX 18:43:18 <PieroV> I wanted to ask him for some help for 115 before the nightly period ended, to get them upstream 18:43:20 <richard> but hopefully formatted for androdi screens 18:43:39 <donuts> yep! 18:43:40 <richard> yes agreed 18:44:11 <donuts> okay so looking at that list – how are we feeling on release dates? 18:44:27 <PieroV> So, we have less then two months 18:44:36 <PieroV> And time passes too quickly 18:44:50 <richard> ideally these are all in 12.5a7 18:45:06 <richard> maybe some in 12.5a6 18:45:15 <donuts> Cool, I expect the odd one may not make it either – and that's fine 18:45:19 <PieroV> Knee jerk I'd say we could release a little bit earlier, but we're always late 18:45:20 <richard> yeah 18:45:39 <donuts> so let's stick with July then yeah? 18:45:45 <PieroV> I skipped 12.5.2 18:45:48 <richard> given that these are primarily UX and of those primariy asset swaps 18:45:56 <richard> i think this is doable 18:45:56 <PieroV> So August would be 12.5.2, no 12.5.3 18:46:31 <PieroV> Err, end of August/September. So, only two updates for 12.5, and not so much time for 13.0 either 18:46:47 <PieroV> So, I think that some we said for 13.0 will be 13.5 18:47:29 <PieroV> (assuming we target late June for 12.5, so it'll be early July instead :D) 18:48:04 <donuts> we can review the 13.0 features list after 12.5 ships and see what needs bumped there too 18:48:24 <richard> agreed 18:48:31 <donuts> I'm going to try and have everything ready in advance of that release too, given the turnaround times 18:48:46 <richard> obviously i'd like to avoid any 'major' features in 13.0 since it's the esr release 18:48:52 <richard> bu we'll see how well our plans work out there 18:49:05 <PieroV> ack. Since 12.5a6 is coming out soonish, I think we'll need at least 12.5a7 18:49:12 <richard> looks like i need to update our release calendar regardless 18:49:19 <richard> PieroV: agreed 18:49:36 <PieroV> What if we planned a little bit earlier than July, so that we can do ESR minor update + first days amends? 18:49:44 <PieroV> Like we did last year 18:50:01 <richard> hm 18:50:11 <richard> ok we get 102.12 on June 5th 18:50:27 <PieroV> I.e., release around June 30, and then have 12.5.1 with immediate corrections around July 6 18:50:44 <richard> so plan on 12.5 a week or two after alpha 18:50:51 <richard> then 12.5.1 would be 102.13 18:51:07 <PieroV> Yes, a couple or three weeks after 102.12 18:51:10 <richard> sounds like a good plan to me actually 18:51:24 <PieroV> Like: 12.5a7 should be a sort of rc 18:51:41 <richard> ok 18:51:56 <PieroV> And only small things that really need to be fixed and can't be helped otherwise directly in 12.5 18:52:20 * ma1 is around, better later than never, and looking at the scroll back 18:52:41 <PieroV> ma1: TL;DR: we wanted to ask about the native implementation of tab guard 18:52:48 <PieroV> (is it what it's called? I never remember) 18:53:09 <PieroV> richard, donuts: doing a 12.5a7 means that we'll have to do a 12.0.7, too 18:53:22 <richard> PieroV: ok updated my todo list for the release calendar w/ the early release suggestion 18:53:28 <donuts> we may as well plan for it, because we almost always end up doing it anyway 18:53:41 <ma1> Yes, it's TabGuard 18:54:06 <richard> PieroV: why would we need a 12.0.7? 18:54:07 <ma1> donuts is right, there can be multiple domains. So two steps: one, making it non-blocking. 18:54:18 <richard> er sorry confused myself 18:54:29 <PieroV> richard: for security fixes if 12.5 arrives a couple of weeks later :D 18:55:07 <richard> right yeah 12.0.7 would be our regulraly scheduled esr update on stable for June 18:57:02 <richard> well this all seems fine then actually 18:57:28 <richard> does anyone know when the docs hackathon is supposed to be happening this summe? 18:57:30 <richard> summer* 18:57:40 <PieroV> It was intended end of May 18:57:53 <PieroV> We didn't consider it 18:58:01 <gaba> richard: we still did not start discussing a date 18:59:18 <richard> hm 18:59:54 <richard> well do y'all think it would be easier for us before our 12.5 release or during the 13.0 sprint vOv 19:00:27 <richard> i'd like to avoid a situation of 'hey we have this hackathon but actually your current work is implicitly hanging over your head' 19:01:03 <ma1> Making TabGuard's authorization removal non-blocking would remove the need of a high-attrition modal dialog. From there we could use even just a notification saying "If something doesn't work as expected, click here for more info/remediation" with whatever donuts believes is fit, and hoping in most cases it doesn't need to be even clicked. 19:01:30 <PieroV> Docs are actually a way to reason on why we do something and it could eventually make something better also on the real thing 19:01:37 <PieroV> And we really need them 19:01:38 <donuts> ma1: right, that could work! 19:02:25 <PieroV> ma1: and what are your feelings for getting it in 12.5? Do you think it's feasible? 19:02:27 <ruihildt[m]> Is there a concept for a permanent disabling of tabguard for a specific website? 19:02:49 <PieroV> ruihildt[m]: that would be a disk leak 19:03:02 <ma1> donuts, ok. I can try to have a NoScript prototyp behaving that way by next week if nothing catastrophic happens, and in the meanwhile you can suggest a UI. 19:03:18 <richard> in which case, maybe the hackathon should come after the 12.5 release 19:03:18 <ma1> ruihildt[m], anything permanent per-site is a bit of a no go for Tor Browser 19:03:19 <donuts> ma1: sounds great, ty! 19:03:36 <ruihildt[m]> ack 19:03:38 <richard> while things are fresh in our mind, and before the stress of oh god 13.0 is coming is fully realised 19:04:18 <ma1> ruihildt[m], but if it works for Mullvad it can be an option there (I already have means to tell the two browsers apart) 19:04:19 <donuts> ruihildt[m]: "allow for the rest of the session" is as close as we're going to get there 19:04:47 <PieroV> richard: After the 12.5 release is also after the end of fiscal year in the US, so people might be happy about that, or might not be that happy 19:05:08 <PieroV> It was the same period last year (well, "just" after, rather than a generic after) 19:05:12 <ruihildt[m]> Well, it could be useful, but we can look at it in step and wait for user feedback. 19:05:40 <ma1> ruihildt[m], wfm 19:05:44 <PieroV> ruihildt[m]: I think MB could benefit from some testing in alpha for this 19:06:03 <richard> not sure what you mean re end of fiscal year/why that matters here 19:06:10 <PieroV> richard: for grants 19:06:48 <PieroV> Several grants have some deadlines for end of June/beginning of July? 19:07:09 <richard> ohhh I see 19:07:59 <PieroV> (I think more end of June, IIRC last year it was the week that included exactly the end of June, but maybe the first week of July is okay, but not sure) 19:08:06 <ruihildt[m]> PieroV: now we have a reason to have the alpha channel.^^ 19:09:03 <PieroV> We need it so that I can also cherry-pick from 12.5aX to 13.0a ;) 19:09:26 <donuts> okay we are 10 minutes over the hour, shall we close the meeting and move the discussion to #tor-browser-dev? 19:09:39 <PieroV> I don't have anything else 19:09:47 <richard> yeah wfm 19:09:50 <PieroV> (but we're the last ones using this channel, according to the schedule) 19:11:05 <donuts> okay great, thanks both! 19:11:09 <donuts> #endmeeting