15:59:11 <itchyonion> #startmeeting tor anti-censorship meeting
15:59:11 <MeetBot> Meeting started Thu May  4 15:59:11 2023 UTC.  The chair is itchyonion. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:59:11 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:59:20 <shelikhoow> hi!
15:59:21 <itchyonion> here is our meeting pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-anti-censorship-keep
15:59:21 <itchyonion> feel free to add what you've been working on and put items on the agenda
15:59:26 <onyinyang[m]> hihi o/
15:59:33 <itchyonion> hi everyone!
15:59:43 <shelikhoo> hi!
16:00:12 <cohosh> hi
16:02:05 <itchyonion> First discussion:     goptlib now lives in gitlab.torproject.org
16:03:04 <itchyonion> hmm I think this was mentioned last meeting?
16:03:44 <itchyonion> seems so from the meeting logs. Let's move on
16:04:09 <shelikhoo> yes...
16:04:18 <itchyonion> interesting links:
16:04:18 <itchyonion> https://guardianproject.info/2023/03/04/arti-next-gen-tor-on-mobile/
16:04:18 <itchyonion> "Support for features like advanced censorship circumvention or onion services is not exactly straight forward on mobile operating systems, because they tend to be way more locked down than traditional computers.  Currently, we can successfully test pluggable transports in 'managed' mode on old versions of Android.  However this technique will likely not work on the latest version of Android and never worked iOS to begin with.  We
16:04:18 <itchyonion> have shared our findings with the Arti developer team and hope they’ll work on getting us to full Pluggable Transports support, integraing with our existing IPtProxy Library soon."
16:05:27 <itchyonion> I think we had some discussion of this in the costa rica meeting. Anything more we want to add?
16:05:56 <itchyonion> OK next one:     Unofficial(?) Snowflake extension for Safari in Apple App Store?
16:05:57 <itchyonion> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/torproject-snowflake/id1597501940
16:05:57 <itchyonion> Previously noted at https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/anti-censorship-team/2022-February/000222.html
16:06:26 <shelikhoo> Yes, I seen a enquiry email send to anti-censorship mailing list
16:06:47 <shelikhoo> and replied that mail directly with some CC
16:07:33 <shelikhoo> I think we might wish to consider include it in our official promotion, if we could verify it
16:08:52 <itchyonion> Did we get in touch with the developer in the end?
16:09:23 <itchyonion> last version update was from March so seems like it's still quite active
16:09:33 <shelikhoo> not yet, we might wish to determine if we could include it
16:09:46 <shelikhoo> before sending invite
16:10:01 <itchyonion> yes
16:10:16 * itchyonion reading the email thread
16:12:30 <shelikhoo> do Tor have a policy about promoting 3rd party open source project
16:12:44 <shelikhoo> I don't think I have seen it at Employee handbook
16:13:27 <shelikhoo> who is 'competent' at determine this?
16:13:45 <itchyonion> that could be risky without knowing the person
16:14:40 <itchyonion> from the origin email I think we are trying to find some ways to put it into the main repo
16:15:08 <cohosh> yeah, there's no policy and idk if we need one necessarily
16:15:17 <onyinyang[m]> it seems like first step would be to contact the developer and see what they want to do with it. Right?
16:15:37 <shelikhoo> or we can see if Tor would allow that
16:15:44 <shelikhoo> before contacting
16:15:51 <onyinyang[m]> ah, I see
16:16:22 <onyinyang[m]> I guess if they haven't started from trying to volunteer/contribute to Tor, that makes sense as a first step
16:16:55 <itchyonion> I only found 2 emails in the mailing list. I wonder if there are new development later since they were from February
16:17:08 <cohosh> shelikhoo: it's probably going to be up to the ac team to decide, there's not an official process for this
16:17:16 <itchyonion> Did any of us put this topic in the meeting pad?
16:17:32 <shelikhoo> https://pad.riseup.net/p/pH6fI2LfdNHa1NaGEzcj
16:17:54 <shelikhoo> yes, one person send an enquiry to us about that extension
16:17:59 <onyinyang[m]> Their repo was last updated in March: https://github.com/jayluxferro/snowflake
16:17:59 <itchyonion> 👍
16:18:28 <onyinyang[m]> but it's also doesn't seem to be very popular yet
16:18:46 <shelikhoo> yes, and that's one thing we could help with
16:19:15 <shelikhoo> but we need to get some approval first and see what the process would look like
16:19:21 <shelikhoo> and include them in the first mail
16:19:34 <cohosh> i would just email them first
16:19:52 <cohosh> it's up to our team to decide, not some others in TPO
16:20:13 <cohosh> we don't need approval to incorporate other projects into our workflow
16:20:37 <cohosh> it's more a question of what steps we take that make us feel comfortable about the quality of the thing
16:21:13 <onyinyang[m]> Yeah, this struck me as an opportunity to potentially bring in a new contributor, but I have not looked at the code at all yet
16:22:08 <shelikhoo> I could also try to read the code...
16:23:03 <cohosh> nice, yeah reading the code sounds like a good necessary prereq for promoting it
16:23:08 <shelikhoo> maybe we can read the code in the following week, and discuss it again next weel
16:23:20 <cohosh> but it doesn't have to block us reaching out to the devs if nobody has heard from them yet
16:24:06 <onyinyang[m]> right, just as a precursory: hey! we noticed you did a thing that looks cool. Wondering if you'd be interested in talking about it with us/joining a/c meeting etc.
16:24:35 <cohosh> yeah
16:24:42 <itchyonion> Was obfs4 originally developed outside of Tor? If so I wonder if we could reuse the same process
16:25:20 <onyinyang[m]> I mean, Lox was developed outside of Tor 🤷
16:25:24 <cohosh> it was developed by a tor core contributor
16:26:30 <onyinyang[m]> Same with HTTPT
16:26:42 <cohosh> and the telegram gettor sprouts bot
16:26:48 <itchyonion> good points
16:27:56 <shelikhoo> yeah
16:27:58 <itchyonion> I think reading the code and sending an invite to the meeting all makes sense.
16:28:32 <cohosh> cool :)
16:28:52 <itchyonion> maybe they don't have to be in the same week though. What do you think about reading the code first and discuss it in the next meeting?
16:30:41 <cohosh> sure, i guess there's no rush
16:30:44 <onyinyang[m]> I think that gauging the developer's interest in what we're doing and desired level of involvement can be equally informative. Having more eyes on this meeting is very low risk, since it's a public meeting, afterall.
16:31:14 <cohosh> yeah
16:31:53 <onyinyang[m]> Maybe they're busy with other things or else, maybe they'd be really into learning more and being involved. Both are good to knows and we can decide where to take it when we have that info.
16:32:09 <itchyonion> sounds reasonable
16:33:02 <itchyonion> I can try to reach the person
16:33:10 * itchyonion putting it in action items
16:33:18 <onyinyang[m]> I'm happy to help out with this too if you want itchyonion
16:33:38 <itchyonion> yes please. I will write an email draft and we can look at it together
16:33:43 <itchyonion> before sending
16:33:49 <onyinyang[m]> cool :)
16:34:11 <shelikhoo> yes!
16:34:40 <itchyonion> (i will also post the draft in the AC channel )
16:35:04 <itchyonion> ok I think that's everything
16:35:26 <itchyonion> Anyone has something else they want to discuss?
16:35:37 <shelikhoo> EOF from me
16:36:24 <itchyonion> #endmeeting