14:59:04 <richard> #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly Meeting 2022-10-31
14:59:05 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Oct 31 14:59:04 2022 UTC.  The chair is richard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:59:05 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:59:10 <richard> good morning all
14:59:20 <richard> and or good evening
14:59:26 <richard> the pad as usual: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-tbb-keep
15:00:27 <henry-x> hello
15:01:40 <starlingroot[m]> o/
15:02:31 <richard> so 12.0a4 didn't get make it out last week for a few reasons
15:03:01 <richard> this is the first (to my knowledge) release where we don't have *any* locals in common with the prevoius release, so make incrementals failed
15:03:03 <lomistello[m]> Good evening
15:03:25 <richard> and secondly the website changes aren't ready for us anyway so no big deal
15:03:26 <Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]> richard: oh cool, that's a nice edge case
15:04:15 <richard> rather than complicate the build process with a one-off (well two-off if you count 11.5 -> 12.0) hack we'll instead just not have incrementals for the localization migration
15:04:41 <richard> which does mean bigger downloads but odds are they are going to be big for 11.5 to 12.0 anyway so seems like a reasonable trade-off to me (thanks boklm)
15:05:39 <richard> dan_b: I posted the mterials from hackerone to the ticket in the description
15:05:56 <dan_b> ooooh looking
15:06:14 <dan_b> aaah as an edit, that's why i didnt get an email
15:06:16 <dan_b> awesome thanks
15:06:21 <dan_b> removing from my needs help list 🙂
15:06:30 <richard> sorry should have @'d you
15:06:40 <dan_b> well that's top of my list this week 🙂
15:07:41 <richard> last week i did  abit of ticket shuffling, so if you are short on tickets, ~Next and ~Sponsor 131 should be the query to use
15:08:21 <richard> ( https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/applications/-/boards?label_name[]=Next&label_name[]=Sponsor%20131 )
15:09:23 <dan_b> cool!
15:09:41 <richard> i don't think there's anything else on my end but looks like PieroV has some bolded items
15:10:09 <PieroV> richard: yeah, I've a few things actually
15:10:35 <PieroV> 1. are we planning a 11.5.7? I had an idea to avoid losing user's setting for the locale
15:10:55 <PieroV> At the moment, our builds set the locale as a preference in 000-tor-browser.js.
15:11:16 <PieroV> We could write a patch for the 11.5 series that sets it as a user preference
15:11:44 <PieroV> In this way 12.0 will set the lang pref to empty in 000-tor-browser.js, but the previous pref will remain in user's pref.js
15:12:04 <PieroV> But we'll need to write a small patch and release a 11.5.7
15:12:32 <richard> I def think it's worth the effort it to avoid confusing users
15:12:53 <richard> we can hash out scheduling/details in the release meeting later
15:13:13 <PieroV> I'll create a ticket for it, then. If we hack it also in 12.0a3 and let it update to 12.0a4 we can preview if it works
15:13:21 <PieroV> But works for me to discuss outside the meeting
15:13:42 <PieroV> (today possibly, or after I come back from the reproducible builds event)
15:13:52 <dan_b> that'll prolly help and catch a lot but dont forget infrequent users who might not hit every point release. not saying we need even more effort for them, just remember some might not be in the flow. that said, this sounds like a great idea for our more active users
15:14:08 <dan_b> 👍
15:14:26 <ma1> +1
15:14:43 <richard> slight tangent, but I think that another benefit we haven't said is that with no massiv elist of locales
15:14:52 <richard> we can build incrementals from more previous releases
15:15:06 <PieroV> richard: yes, that was my original plan
15:15:09 <Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]> Hmm, yes, that is a good point
15:15:28 <richard> and probably work w/ metrics to figure out what that rolling window should be
15:15:29 <PieroV> It should work, but we'll need to modify projects/browser/build to create an ad-hoc preference for that
15:15:29 <Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]> I know quite a lot of users who don't hit every release
15:16:11 <PieroV> So, we'll need to build all the locales, even though then they will be moved to the multi-lingual channel
15:16:48 <richard> i'm not sure i'm following
15:16:55 <PieroV> Doable, but less easy than the previous idea and needs more work (but not mutually exclusive)
15:17:01 <PieroV> richard: np, I think we can discuss later
15:17:07 <richard> kk
15:17:19 <PieroV> 2. I've gone through a series of Moz help pages for tor-browser#40899
15:17:34 <PieroV> And I think that there are some issues that we could disable already for 12.0/hide them from the preferences page
15:18:01 <PieroV> Another thing we don't need to go through now, but possibly worth to create a few tickets for 12.0a5
15:18:20 <richard> ooh ok
15:18:32 <PieroV> (I'm still finishing to update the list though)
15:19:47 <richard> excellent
15:20:52 <richard> oh one more thing
15:20:57 <PieroV> 3. I'll need help for the WASI sandbox, I think I could open a MR with the feature still disabled when we finish with 12.0a4
15:21:13 <PieroV> But definitely low priority/12.5
15:21:41 <richard> i'll be recording our the state of the onion this week, if you haven't already please add anything you think shoudld be covered to the pad: https://pad.riseup.net/p/applications-state-of-the-onion
15:21:47 <PieroV> (and that was my last item from the pad, but I'll have another question later)
15:23:05 <richard> ok y'all, i don't have anything else
15:23:41 <richard> it should be a quiet week with holidays and boklm+pierov at the reproducibility build conference
15:23:42 <PieroV> richard: what's the schedule for the next alpha?
15:24:01 <richard> to be figured out between now and the release meeting
15:24:13 <richard> PieroV^
15:24:44 <PieroV> Okay. According to the calendar it's in 2.5 hours, right?
15:24:56 <richard> yeah 1800 UTC
15:25:29 <PieroV> (Europe is out of daylight saving time now, so some confusion with regards to UTC is to be expected from me ^^;)
15:25:45 <ma1> BTW, are we keeping this time also next week when USA/CA) changes DST?
15:25:57 <PieroV> ma1: yes, that's TPO policy
15:25:57 <dan_b> oh geez. I think in canada we change next week. not bad enough we all change times, it's so much better when we do it out of sync?
15:26:08 <richard> yeah this time of year is always a shit show
15:26:13 <Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]> ma1: my understanding is that Tor Project policy uses UTC, without regard to DST
15:26:21 <PieroV> Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]: correct
15:26:22 <richard> ^that
15:27:06 * Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m] likes that policy, wishes everyone did it that way
15:27:11 <richard> obviously his doesn't necessarily work if you have irl obligations that don't care about UTC
15:27:18 <ma1> yes, I understand it. I was wondering wether shifting one time earlier worked for everyone (it surely does for me)
15:27:26 <richard> so if anyone's inconvenienced we can move it
15:27:29 <ma1> s/one time/one hour/
15:27:33 <PieroV> Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]: I'd wish dst wasn't a thing :(
15:27:51 <Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]> PieroV: Agreed, DST needs to be nuked from orbit
15:27:55 <richard> otherwise assume meetings are stlil the same tie (UTC) :)
15:27:57 <ma1> Indeed. The problem is not DST or not, it is the change.
15:28:21 <dan_b> huh, nextcloud has shifted all my meetings so they are an hour wrong
15:28:36 <dan_b> but i suspect that means this meeting will be 7am for me next week instead of 8am
15:28:39 <dan_b> -_-;
15:29:04 <PieroV> moving it to later isn't very feasible, unless we go to #tor-meeting2
15:29:12 <dan_b> no worries
15:29:18 <PieroV> Because there's network health meeting here after us
15:29:36 <dan_b> especially first week i ll just pretend times havent changed 😄
15:29:59 <dan_b> but yeah, 7 is manageable, i'm more of a morning person 🙂
15:30:08 <richard> ok
15:30:20 <richard> then we'll keep this meeting when it is :p
15:30:47 <richard> anything else?
15:31:30 <richard> going once
15:31:35 <Jeremy_Rand_36C3[m]> Nothing here
15:31:38 <richard> twice
15:31:44 <richard> and thrice
15:31:48 <ma1> bang
15:31:54 <richard> alright have a good week y'all
15:32:04 <PieroV> Thanks! You too
15:32:04 <richard> pierov, boklm: enjoy your confernece :)
15:32:05 <ma1> thanks, you too
15:32:10 <PieroV> thanks :)
15:32:11 <richard> #endmeeting