15:59:45 <donuts> #startmeeting UX Team Weekly Meeting, 18 October 2022
15:59:45 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Oct 18 15:59:45 2022 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:59:45 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:59:47 <donuts> welcome
15:59:52 <donuts> pad is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-ux-team-2022-keep
16:00:14 <donuts> please add anything you'd like to discuss to the agenda
16:00:26 <donuts> and feel free to start adding your updates as I fix the pad
16:02:16 <championquizzer> hey, good news, the samsung s22 bug seems to be resolved with the 11.5.4 update
16:02:24 <donuts> yep I saw that lol
16:02:35 <nah> uhul!
16:02:37 <championquizzer> tor-browser#41195
16:02:40 <nah> or wooho :)
16:02:41 <championquizzer> whoops
16:02:45 <donuts> eh, nah could you take over for a moment please?
16:02:50 <donuts> the announcements section is up to date
16:02:55 <donuts> something... is going on here
16:02:58 <nah> yes!
16:03:13 <championquizzer> tor-browser#41186 (that was the ticket)
16:04:11 <nah> good feedback, championquizzer!
16:04:31 <championquizzer> anyways, i think we should keep the bug ticket open to figure what was the underlying issue
16:04:32 <nah> is everyone done with the pad?
16:04:49 * championquizzer is done
16:05:01 <nicob> I still need to drop in next week planned  int he pad whoops
16:05:12 <nah> championquizzer: so this update came from samsung, right?
16:05:23 <nah> nicob: no problem, take your time
16:05:59 <championquizzer> it seems there was a samsung update as well the TBA update (11.5.4), so I'm not sure what solved the issue :)
16:06:31 <nah> a-ha
16:07:48 * nicob is done
16:08:20 <championquizzer> nicob: great work with the yec! many congrats <3
16:08:39 <nicob> thanks championquizzer <3
16:09:31 * nah was reading tor browser for android updates
16:09:49 <nah> +1 championquizzer
16:09:54 <nah> great work, nicob
16:10:07 <donuts> okay back
16:10:12 <donuts> reading the backlog :)
16:10:13 <nicob> thanks nah <3
16:10:36 <nah> donuts: stage - everyone's ready with the pad :)
16:12:22 <donuts> <+championquizzer> anyways, i think we should keep the bug ticket open to figure what was the underlying issue <- I think richard's hunch is that it's a weird hardware/driver issue on samsung's end
16:12:38 <donuts> ty nah!
16:12:46 <donuts> okay, bold items...
16:12:47 <championquizzer> aha i see. i'd think so too
16:12:58 <donuts> I'll go first
16:13:02 <donuts> "Test multi-locale builds and prepare for 12.0a4"
16:13:06 <donuts> this is on my plate this week
16:13:33 <donuts> multi-locales have now been officially merged, so should be available in the next alpha at the end of the month
16:13:44 <donuts> and in nightly today? I think
16:14:17 <donuts> I did some QA of an early testbuild yesterday here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/17400
16:14:24 <donuts> (see the linked items)
16:14:42 <donuts> however we'll need to think about 1. how this change affects /download, and 2. how we communicate this change to users
16:14:55 <donuts> for the purposes of 12.0a4, I've opened this ticket for web: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/web/lego/-/issues/53
16:15:09 <donuts> I don't think we need to do too much for Alpha, and the bulk of the work will be for stable instead
16:17:06 <donuts> nah/championquizzer: please let me know what you think about the proposal in the second ticket
16:17:18 <nah> i'm reading the ticket but i'm terribly affected by a flu today
16:17:50 <nah> yes, this is something we're discussing last week
16:17:53 <championquizzer> ack donuts. i'm also reading the tickets
16:18:04 <donuts> 👍
16:18:05 <donuts> no rush
16:18:06 <nah> we have the possibility to test with some users in the end of this quarter or next one
16:18:29 <donuts> for what sponsor nah?
16:18:43 <nah> s9
16:18:49 <donuts> right, I suspect most pain points will be in the browser itself
16:18:53 <donuts> rather than on the web side of things
16:19:10 <nah> yep
16:19:14 <donuts> i.e. it auto-sets itself to an unexpected language
16:19:20 <donuts> and the user has to dig themselves out of that hole
16:19:59 <nah> but this paragraph explaining the page is for the download page, right?
16:20:15 <donuts> yep! correct
16:20:16 <nah> page/change
16:21:18 <donuts> I need to create a ticket to add some kind of warning to the browser itself
16:21:47 <donuts> maybe use a chrome notification banner
16:22:20 <donuts> i.e. "your language has been set automatically! do not resist"
16:22:28 <donuts> with a deeplink to the language menu to override
16:22:34 <donuts> in about:preferences
16:22:38 <nah> i think we should put some attention to this, if we're removing the current (long) table
16:23:04 <nah> users can be surprised with this
16:23:11 <donuts> for stable, yes
16:23:37 <donuts> but for the first alpha I don't think we need to change too much besides what's in the ticket
16:23:41 <championquizzer> hmm, yes will be very important to communicate that with the stable release
16:23:52 <donuts> we should do a support article too I think
16:23:54 <donuts> (again, for stable)
16:24:02 <nah> yes yes!
16:24:03 <championquizzer> yep
16:25:07 <donuts> So my thinking is: 1. get things prepped for the first alpha, 2. try and recruit alpha testers specifically to test this (usual social/forum posts), 3. prep more serious web/support changes for stable
16:25:35 <championquizzer> sounds like a good plan to me
16:26:03 <donuts> great, I'll create tickets for 2 and 3 once we've got things lined up for the Alpha :D
16:26:11 <nah> i can support with recruiting testers :)
16:26:19 <donuts> thank you nah :)
16:26:29 <nah> and also think about the text! (adding to my local todo list)
16:26:35 <donuts> <3
16:26:40 <donuts> one thing I've noted in the ticket
16:26:52 <donuts> is that it won't be obvious _what_ locales we support on first glance anymore
16:27:03 <donuts> so we'll need to maintain a list in an obvious place
16:27:44 <donuts> that could be on /download, or in support
16:28:07 <championquizzer> donuts: on a related note, should i follow the alpha esr 102 prep notes ticket to keep track of what's changing in Tb 12? i'll also start with preparing all the support docs for the stable release (including this one ^)
16:28:13 <donuts> e.g. we could change "Download in another language or platform" to "What languages does Tor Browser support?"
16:28:57 <donuts> championquizzer: I kind of wish we didn't use milestones for sponsors so these tickets didn't get so spread out :/
16:29:06 <donuts> otherwise we could have it all in the 12.0 milestone
16:29:22 <donuts> we could start using a label for major releases instead though
16:29:27 <donuts> that would make this easier
16:29:42 <nah> donuts: re: locales, agreed. also, we can link to https://community.torproject.org/localization/current-status/ additionally to the list of "what languages does tor browser support?"
16:29:45 <championquizzer> hmm, i'll have a look at the milestone and let you know if questions
16:30:10 <donuts> championquizzer: well there are a lot of things under the S131 milestones going into this release too
16:30:48 <ggus1> Note: if the next release will bundle all the locales, this will impact on services like gettor
16:30:58 <donuts> but I think it's all either: S131 fixes, ESR-related things, the odd post-11.5 fix, multi-locale functionality, and (hopefully) ARM builds
16:31:48 <donuts> ggus1: the next alpha release will bundle all locales, there should be at least one more stable and alpha release before 12.0 though
16:32:35 <donuts> 12.0 stable is currently planned for November 22nd
16:33:17 <donuts> this is all coming together last minute though, and I'm concerned about stability and impact on users atm
16:34:45 <donuts> championquizzer: all the 12.0 changes should be getting tracked in this ticked by richard: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser-build/-/issues/40637
16:34:54 <donuts> *ticket
16:35:16 <championquizzer> ack. this is great
16:36:12 <donuts> the devs do this for every release
16:36:21 <donuts> e.g. you can see the changes planned for 12.0a4 here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser-build/-/issues/40627
16:36:29 <richard> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser-build/-/issues/?label_name%5B%5D=Release%20Prep for the query :)
16:36:39 <richard> we're actively doing 11.5.5 and 12.0a4 ;)
16:36:48 <donuts> even better :D
16:37:10 <championquizzer> :P
16:37:12 <donuts> richard: do you think you can start adding things to the 12.0 prep ticket sooner, so championquizzer knows what they need to change on the support end in advance?
16:37:31 <richard> yeah...
16:37:44 <donuts> thanks 🙏
16:37:49 <richard> in the short term you cna look at all the linked issue sin the previous 12.0aN tickets
16:38:06 <championquizzer> awesome. thanks
16:38:10 <championquizzer> that sounds good too
16:39:52 <donuts> richard: have the anti-censorship team been warned about the mutli-locale changes?
16:40:16 <richard> no, how would they be affected?
16:40:24 <ggus1> Gettor service
16:40:48 <richard> oh good to know
16:40:48 <ggus1> At the moment you need to ask platform+locale to the bot
16:41:04 <richard> I'll open a ticket for them
16:41:08 <donuts> tyvm both
16:42:12 <emmapeel> also for example in https://www.torproject.org/es/download/ you get the spanish version of tor browser
16:43:06 <donuts> emmapeel: yep, I'm going to open a ticket to track /download changes for stable once we're done with alpha prep
16:43:26 <donuts> there will need to be a few
16:44:15 <donuts> okay we're running out of time so we should move on :P
16:44:52 <richard> ggus1: opened https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/anti-censorship/gettor-project/gettor/-/issues/91
16:45:02 <donuts> championquizzer: looks like it's over to you
16:45:31 <championquizzer> yep, so i planned on discussing this issue
16:45:37 <championquizzer> * Discussion on how to improve troubleshooting on Tor browser for Android
16:46:25 <championquizzer> ok, so another feedback as we help users circumventing censorship esp. the mobile users is that it's particularly not very user-friendly to access the Tor logs in TBA right now
16:46:49 <donuts> hrmm
16:46:50 <championquizzer> one is this issue: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/41195
16:47:26 <donuts> I'm not sure why android doesn't allow for access to full settings before bootstrapping
16:47:28 <donuts> like desktop
16:47:34 <donuts> but that's another solution
16:47:37 <championquizzer> yep
16:48:32 <donuts> would you like this ticket to be your quarterly android ticket championquizzer
16:48:38 <donuts> you get one as a treat
16:48:39 <championquizzer> i think a lot of times it has helped to ask for Orbot logs instead because it's accessible just by a right swipe (i think)
16:48:42 <championquizzer> lol
16:49:07 <championquizzer> screenshot fro orbot e.g https://forum.torproject.net/t/problem-with-proxy/1552/4
16:49:44 <donuts> is the "swipe left for logs" feature broken on TBA?
16:49:48 <donuts> I know screenshots don't work
16:49:56 <donuts> but I'm struggling to even open the logs atm
16:50:19 <donuts> omg I was swiping the wrong way
16:51:10 <donuts> however
16:51:28 <championquizzer> i believe the major issue is about the screenshot
16:51:30 <donuts> I'm not getting forwarded to the start screen at all now
16:51:30 <championquizzer> but
16:51:47 <donuts> I am trapped
16:52:05 <championquizzer> i don't know how user-friendly swiping right/left is right now esp. with android's gesture navigations
16:52:22 <donuts> a "View logs" link would be fine
16:52:28 <donuts> I think something's broken though
16:52:35 <donuts> okay, well this needs improved on
16:52:58 <donuts> we can consider this our priority android ticket since the S22 bug has apparently fixed itself
16:53:24 <championquizzer> yeah, something needs to take it's spot hehe
16:53:29 <donuts> it'll need to wait until Q1 though I think
16:54:32 <donuts> we have 5 mins left
16:54:35 <championquizzer> that sounds good. i don't have anything else to add to the topic
16:54:55 <donuts> thanks championquizzer! I'll add an update to the ticket
16:55:10 <donuts> nicob: I've been throwing reference screenshots from Firefox Beta/Nightly into S131 tickets
16:55:18 <donuts> we can talk about that on Friday though
16:55:35 <donuts> I'll try and look at the current batch of application icons asap
16:55:36 <nicob> sounds good
16:55:43 <nicob> thanks!
16:55:54 <donuts> however multi-locales and quarterly supports are vying for my attention <_<
16:56:12 <donuts> I'm sure the sponsor will understand however
16:56:16 <donuts> *reports
16:56:21 <donuts> not supports
16:56:43 <donuts> if we're all good I'll put the bot back to sleep?
16:57:02 <nicob> night night bot
16:57:05 * championquizzer is good
16:57:07 <donuts> #endmeeting