18:01:29 <donuts> #startmeeting Tor Browser Release Meeting 2022-08-29
18:01:29 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Aug 29 18:01:29 2022 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:29 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:36 <donuts> pad is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-browser-release-meeting-keep
18:01:52 <donuts> gonna brb one sec, feel free to fill it out :D
18:02:03 <PieroV> already doing :)
18:04:58 <donuts> okay back
18:05:02 * donuts checks the pad...
18:05:43 <donuts> wow that's a lot of releases
18:05:56 <richard> it's FINE
18:06:11 <donuts> lol
18:06:14 <donuts> why do both 11.5.2 and 11.5.3 include android?
18:06:19 <donuts> just curious
18:06:41 <PieroV> 11.5.3 fixes NoScript
18:06:46 <richard> bad planning on my part mostly
18:06:50 <donuts> ah okay
18:06:55 <PieroV> I proposed to say 11.5.2 is desktop only
18:06:59 <PieroV> Even though we built also Android
18:07:15 <PieroV> (fwiw I built 11.5.3 also for desktop because I used the wrong make target)
18:07:17 <donuts> riiight
18:07:36 <richard> i had anticipated publishing saturday AM but then the web server said no
18:07:49 <donuts> computers
18:07:49 <richard> so here we are
18:07:59 <richard> i'm hoping there's an email in my queue telling me it's all fixed :p
18:08:16 <PieroV> lavamind came to #tor-browser-dev to say something about it
18:08:21 <PieroV> You could ping him directly
18:08:25 <richard> will do
18:08:34 <donuts> did you run out of giga bits again?
18:08:49 <PieroV> yep
18:08:53 <donuts> sad noises
18:09:05 <PieroV> lavamind | web-fsn-01 and 02 are borked, zero free space
18:09:42 <PieroV> lavamind | was there a TB upload recently ?
18:09:46 <PieroV> I wonder why he asked :)
18:09:52 <richard> lol
18:10:06 <PieroV> well, hopefully multi-locale pack will solve
18:10:19 <donuts> 🤞
18:10:52 <donuts> okay i think the first agenda item is yours richard
18:10:57 <donuts> "Remaining todo for esr102"
18:11:48 <richard> oh right
18:12:05 <richard> was just enumerating things left to do
18:12:20 <richard> it looks like we're all good though pending build review
18:12:26 <richard> tor-browser-build review*
18:13:19 <donuts> great, doesn't look like too much?
18:13:32 <richard> seems that way :)
18:13:47 <donuts> :)
18:13:57 <donuts> pierov: Plans for Android 11.5 based on 102?
18:13:58 <donuts> ?
18:14:07 <donuts> we have plans for an 11.5 based on 102?
18:14:13 <PieroV> I certainly hope so
18:14:33 <PieroV> Backporting CVEs to 99 doesn't make sense, imho
18:14:58 <richard> i meant backporting 103 and 104 CVEs to esr-102
18:15:03 <PieroV> I know
18:15:13 <PieroV> But we also have a 11.5 :)
18:15:22 <donuts> oh sorry I skipped over the _Android_ portion
18:15:30 <richard> hm
18:16:03 <richard> well if we had a properly maintained android stable i'd say no we should wait until all the esr102 stuff is done and do a simulatenous android+desktop esr102 release
18:16:24 <richard> but we don't really so upgrading 11.5 to 102 early may be a good idea
18:16:36 <richard> in which case we'd be doing that in the end of Sept release
18:16:45 <richard> 11.5.4
18:16:45 <PieroV> The rebase has been a thing for more than a month, but only in nightly
18:16:53 <PieroV> So it hasn't been tested so much
18:17:12 <PieroV> But hopefully 20 days-one month should be enough, unless we get bad feedbacks
18:17:55 <PieroV> Soft freeze is Sep 15. I guess we'll be a little late for next stables. Maybe we should tell Tails
18:19:29 <richard> hm
18:19:44 <richard> Tails only cares about stable right?
18:19:49 <PieroV> Yes
18:20:31 <richard> oh i see the whole meeting thing
18:21:47 <PieroV> Yep, probably the rebase is feasible, but I will be able to build starting from Sep 17
18:22:14 <richard> well fwiw we won't be doing a rebase for 11.5.4
18:22:16 <richard> only backports
18:22:19 <richard> since no more esr91 series
18:22:37 <PieroV> Oh, right, I totally forgot
18:22:43 <richard> so it should be an 'easy' release
18:24:51 <richard> to the next point
18:25:06 <richard> merged geckoview/desktop for esr102 12.0a3 seems like a good plan to me
18:25:48 <richard> 12.0 is currently scheduled for Nov 22nd
18:26:18 <PieroV> sounds good
18:26:36 <PieroV> So 102.5
18:26:52 <PieroV> Sep 15 is 102.3
18:27:04 <PieroV> So 2 more releases for 11.5?
18:27:24 <richard> yeah
18:27:47 <donuts> wuft that many huh
18:28:08 <richard> i'm sure it will be fine
18:28:22 <donuts> question: if we have branding things as part of S131 that also affect Tor Browser, will those all be 12.5?
18:28:31 <richard> i mean seriously though, that's two months after 12.0a3 to find and fix bugs :D
18:29:14 <richard> hmm
18:29:28 <donuts> or is it a case of "depends how big they are"
18:30:18 <richard> so any branding type of commits which would affect both would be something affecting the common features
18:30:19 <richard> so like
18:30:25 <richard> new identity and security level
18:30:34 <richard> anything s131 speicfic would go in its own privacy-browser branch
18:30:56 <PieroV> Are we moving the crypto thing to base browser?
18:31:15 <richard> the non-secure crypot address copy detection thing?
18:31:21 <PieroV> We kept in the Tor Browser part of the patchset because of the dependency on TorStrings
18:31:23 <PieroV> Yes
18:31:45 <richard> yeah that should be moved to base-browser I think
18:32:26 <donuts> yep, I'm mostly thinking about potential changes to about:tor and the onboarding templates, or the about:preferences#privacy UI changes
18:32:32 <PieroV> okay. We could do that when moving to fluent
18:33:27 <richard> makes sense
18:34:42 <PieroV> changes to about:tor and the onboarding templates --> S131 specific, I'd say
18:34:58 <PieroV> about:preferences#privacy UI changes --> common. donuts: did you have any in mind?
18:35:30 <donuts> pierov: well regarding the first point, I think we should take the opportunity to modernize TB's templates for both
18:35:37 <donuts> so there would be common templating changes
18:35:47 <donuts> and then the privacy browser specific content/theming later
18:36:17 <donuts> regarding about:preferences#privacy, not really anything specific beyond what we talked about at the last S131 catch up
18:36:18 <PieroV> Actually about:tor has some stuff related to getting little-t-tor updates
18:36:34 <richard> on a related note, do you think we have the UX resources for updating/modernizing the new user onboarding UX?
18:37:14 <PieroV> So the template would be only for the HTML and maybe something on the CSS. So I'm wondering if it makes sense to DRY them, and make everything more difficult to share the files
18:37:17 <richard> with the assumption henry would be available for implementation
18:38:12 <donuts> richard: I think we do, it's not a very design-heavy activity tbh
18:38:49 <donuts> pierov: wdym?
18:39:13 <PieroV> donuts: I don't think sharing the same files makes much sense from a technical point of view
18:39:25 <PieroV> We could copy and paste, rather than having shared files with different strings
18:40:11 <PieroV> So, they're changes we could do at the same time, but not-so-common
18:40:20 <donuts> pierov: oh right, sure – whatever you think makes sense. I just don't really want to maintain two different "UX"es and potential sets of bugs, if that makes sense.
18:40:42 <PieroV> Sure
18:41:04 <donuts> In my head the ideal scenario would be for both browsers to have their own content, branding and colors or w/e, but otherwise the onboarding and start screens would be functionally the same
18:41:19 <richard> hmm
18:41:51 <richard> i feel like that is going to get tricky
18:42:06 <richard> given the additional features tor-browser has to onboarder users
18:42:23 <richard> and things like the year-end campaign and other differences
18:42:46 <richard> but we may be able to smart here with regards to common functionality
18:43:19 <donuts> i'm really just thinking about the really basic stuff, like the layouts etc.
18:43:25 <donuts> general interactions
18:43:34 <donuts> and what happens when the browser's been updated
18:44:31 <donuts> the magic feature tour stuff in TB doesn't affect the functionality of the preceding slide templates at all
18:44:45 <donuts> from a UX/Design pov i mean
18:44:59 <richard> right right
18:45:49 <donuts> this could all just be copy pasting though, it doesn't need to be smart
18:45:56 <donuts> whatever you think works best from a dev pov
18:47:04 <richard> yeah makes sense
18:47:49 <donuts> we might need to let this stuff bake in TB alpha for a few releases though
18:47:53 <donuts> because bugz
18:48:01 <richard> yeah for sure
18:48:10 <donuts> so I'm not sure if it makes sense to try and squeeze it into 12.0?
18:48:20 <donuts> or I can prioritize it in time for the next alpha?
18:49:33 <richard> i think squeezing much into the next alpha is not going to happen
18:50:44 <richard> well it may happen in 12.0a3 (end of Sept) but we may need to test in nightlies after that release
18:50:54 <donuts> that's what I meant, sorry
18:51:19 <donuts> but if we miss 12.0a3 (which is very likely, because work needs to happen) that leaves two alphas left?
18:51:50 <donuts> which is why I'm starting to lean towards "maybe this is a 12.5 thing"?
18:51:50 <richard> there would be 1 after 12.0a3 (end of october)
18:51:55 <donuts> oh just one
18:52:08 <donuts> oh god it's nearly September already
18:52:11 <richard> I KNOW
18:52:30 <richard> so the first beta for privacy browser is scheduled for end of march
18:52:33 <donuts> okay so definitely no about:tor, onboarding or privacy settings changes in 12.0
18:52:39 <richard> which is when that all needs to *really* be in
18:52:54 <donuts> but we can start dropping them in 12.5aX
18:52:56 <donuts> yeah
18:53:00 <richard> right
18:53:19 <donuts> cool no prob
18:53:37 <donuts> sorry for derailing the meeting
18:53:46 <richard> :D
18:54:05 <donuts> we should launch 12.5 earlier next year though lol
18:54:14 <donuts> 6 month cycles would be nice
18:54:17 <richard> if there's antyhing on fire we can meet on the 5th, otherwise 19th work for y'all?
18:54:24 <richard> donuts: yeah agreed
18:54:31 <donuts> sgtm!
18:54:32 <PieroV> Let's hope next year isn't like this one :P
18:54:40 <donuts> evergreen hope lol pierov
18:54:41 <richard> next year should be a bit more chill
18:54:54 <PieroV> wfm re: dates
18:54:58 <donuts> more devs = fewer problems???
18:55:09 <richard> just different problems :p
18:55:17 <PieroV> After a certain threshold it isn't true
18:55:21 <PieroV> Especially if you're late
18:55:26 <PieroV> Don't ask me the name of this law, though
18:55:40 <PieroV> But I think we were below this threshold
18:57:36 <donuts> yeah I don't think we're close haha
18:57:48 <donuts> I think we're all good here? shall i close the meeting?
18:57:49 <PieroV> Found it: Brooks’s Law
18:57:54 <PieroV> yes, good for me!
18:57:56 <richard> let's get out of here
18:57:56 <richard> !
18:58:05 <donuts> perfect timing pierov xD
18:58:08 <donuts> #endmeeting