15:06:43 <donuts> #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly Meeting 2022-06-06
15:06:43 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jun  6 15:06:43 2022 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:06:43 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:07:16 <donuts> please update your statues and add anything you'd like to discuss to the agenda ^_^
15:09:10 <boklm> hi
15:10:56 <donuts> hi boklm :)
15:11:19 <donuts> pierov: i owe you a reply to that bridges ticket, it's on my list for today
15:11:36 <donuts> otherwise I failed at finishing anything on my todo list from last week, so I'm copy-pasting it
15:11:46 <PieroV> donuts: okay, I've already forgotten about it ^_^
15:11:50 <PieroV> thanks
15:11:51 <donuts> baha
15:12:20 <donuts> okay looks like the typing has stopped
15:12:34 <donuts> pierov: you have a bold item!
15:12:46 <donuts> "I don't know, my boards are totally wrong" lmao uh oh
15:12:59 <PieroV> oh, it was for planned last week
15:13:03 <PieroV> so, I should have unbolded
15:13:54 <donuts> oh so it is
15:13:56 <donuts> okay great
15:14:14 <donuts> do you want to talk about tor-browser#40789
15:14:14 <donuts> ?
15:14:26 <donuts> specifically: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/40789#note_2809406
15:14:42 <PieroV> yes, but very quickly I think
15:14:56 <PieroV> So, thorin asked us to evaluate for 11.5 many months ago
15:15:02 <PieroV> and we haven't yet
15:15:23 <PieroV> then they suggested again to have a look at it
15:15:33 <PieroV> should we try to get this done for 11.5?
15:16:03 <donuts> i'm reading the bugzilla ticket but what's the tldr?
15:16:36 <PieroV> it's make the scrollbars the same in all OS
15:16:57 <donuts> all overlays?
15:17:05 <PieroV> yes
15:17:39 <donuts> why's thorin asking us if we want to implement it, if it's not been applied downstream yet?
15:17:49 <donuts> sounds sensible though
15:18:49 <PieroV> because it can help against fingerprinting, and from what I understand Mozilla is resisting to merging this change
15:19:49 <donuts> yep, it sounds good from a fingerprinting pov
15:19:56 <donuts> are mozilla worried about UI breakage?
15:20:34 <donuts> this is the default behavior on macos afaik so anything other than that is alien to me
15:20:39 <PieroV> I haven't really checked too much, I was asking here to know if someone already knew more than me :)
15:20:53 <donuts> aha
15:21:00 <donuts> okay I see some UX concerns in the bugzilla ticket
15:21:35 <donuts> I remember these exact discussions when macOS changed its default scrollbar behavior years ago
15:22:01 <boklm> I don't know much about this, but looks like something we want
15:22:11 <donuts> I have no idea what this would look like on linux or win
15:23:49 <PieroV> scrollbars on Firefox 100 are already an overlay on Linux (at least with GNOME)
15:23:53 <PieroV> They aren't on Windows
15:23:59 <donuts> looks like scrollbars are overlayed in Edge in Win
15:24:12 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> Does this defend against inter-OS only fingerprinting, or also intra-OS?
15:25:07 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> (sorry if that's a dumb question)
15:25:23 <PieroV> supposedly it should remove any scrollbar difference, from what I understood
15:25:37 <PieroV> so should help also between different OS versions
15:25:41 <donuts> okay I don't have any major concerns about enforcing from a ux pov, sounds like scrollbar ux is moving in this direction anyway
15:25:47 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> cool
15:26:07 <boklm> not sure if it's also inter-OS, but the most important would be intra-OS (since there are other ways to detect OS)
15:26:57 <donuts> yeah, makes sense
15:28:13 <donuts> okay, thumbs up all round to look into it further I think
15:28:18 <donuts> shall i move on?
15:28:21 * Jeremy_Rand_Talos still thinks inter-OS fingerprinting blocking should be a goal at some point, but yes, intra-OS is more important
15:28:31 <PieroV> yes, it's enough for me
15:28:39 <PieroV> I'll try to have a look at some point
15:28:50 <donuts> PieroV: it can also wait for TB 12
15:28:59 <PieroV> (probably not for the next alpha, though)
15:28:59 <donuts> if you have too much on your plate already
15:29:01 <donuts> yeah
15:29:30 <donuts> so I was wondering if anyone has proposed any projects for hackweek yet?
15:29:42 <donuts> i forget when the deadline is/was?
15:29:43 <PieroV> I haven't, and don't have any ideas :/
15:30:01 <PieroV> richard has it as an item for this week
15:30:11 <donuts> oh
15:30:31 <donuts> i wonder what they're planning 👀
15:30:40 <donuts> i added a few things to the all hands pad
15:30:43 <boklm> I think GeKo was planning to propose https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser-build/-/issues/40350
15:31:06 <donuts> boklm: ohhhh interesting
15:31:14 <boklm> so I will probably work on that one
15:32:09 <PieroV> I'm thinking of taking it as an opportunity to work on other things, rather than browser
15:32:28 <boklm> yes, this can be an opportunity for that
15:33:07 <donuts> sorry, had to get the door
15:33:17 <donuts> I was thinking of doing a kind of design sprint on tor browser
15:33:32 <donuts> and play around with all the weird ideas i don't get the chance to explore in normal projects
15:35:44 <donuts> i also added this to the all hands pad:
15:35:46 <donuts> "If we were designing a simplified privacy browser from scratch today, what would it look like?"
15:36:13 <donuts> i'm kind of interested in what TB would look like if we were: 1. starting from scratch, 2. didn't have any FF restrictions on the chrome/UI
15:36:36 <donuts> this was prompted by the browser company's UI work with Chromium on their new browser Arc
15:38:26 <boklm> maybe a Gemini browser with Tor support would be nice to have
15:39:09 <boklm> (although this does not replace a web browser)
15:39:25 <PieroV> I've read the proposal for the hackweek, but I thought it was about what is behind the hood, rather than the UI
15:39:52 <boklm> https://gemini.circumlunar.space/
15:40:17 <donuts> pierov: yeah, my thing is a separate idea (but could be complementary in the future)
15:40:39 <donuts> i'd just keep it as a design concept atm
15:41:47 <donuts> okay, shall I wrap up the meeting?
15:42:05 <PieroV> I don't have anything to add
15:42:11 <PieroV> Last week was quite a light one for me :)
15:42:23 <donuts> that must have been a first
15:42:47 <donuts> okay pressing the button in 3...
15:42:49 <donuts> 2...
15:42:51 <donuts> 1...
15:42:57 <donuts> #endmeeting