15:59:21 <donuts> #startmeeting UX Team Weekly Meeting
15:59:21 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue May 17 15:59:21 2022 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:59:21 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:59:25 <donuts> hello everyone!
15:59:25 <championquizzer> hello o/
15:59:28 <nicob> o/
15:59:50 <donuts> pad is here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-ux-team-2022-keep
15:59:58 <nah> o/
16:00:02 <donuts> please add anything you'd like to discuss today to the agenda
16:00:17 <donuts> couple of quick announcements:
16:00:48 <donuts> Tor Browser 11.0.12 was released for Android last week
16:01:28 <donuts> I understand that crashes are now less frequent, but still present – and that there's a better fix coming (hopefully) in the next alpha
16:01:40 <donuts> which should be ready in the next few days
16:01:56 <championquizzer> yep, we have narrowed down to mostly grapheneOS users now i think
16:02:09 <donuts> yeah, I saw graphene popping up a lot in the reports
16:02:15 <donuts> that's some relief at least
16:02:40 <donuts> secondly, congestion control landed in tor 0.4.7 at the beginning of the month
16:02:49 <donuts> (however we've not had a team meeting since then)
16:03:30 <donuts> eventually, after most of the network has been upgraded, it will make its way to tor browser stable too
16:04:05 <donuts> and TB should start to feel noticeably faster :)
16:04:09 <donuts> it's very exciting!
16:04:20 <championquizzer> yes!
16:04:24 <nicob> woo!
16:05:08 <donuts> okay that's it for announcements, feel free to update the weekly planning section if you haven't already
16:05:41 <donuts> and update the status/assignee of any ticket on the team kanban too, if necessary
16:05:53 <donuts> https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/-/boards?scope=all&label_name[]=UX%20Team
16:09:09 <donuts> how are we getting on?
16:09:15 <nicob> I'm done
16:09:21 <nah> i'm done too
16:09:26 <donuts> awesome!
16:09:30 <championquizzer> same
16:09:39 <donuts> let's do bolded items first, starting with nah
16:09:49 <donuts> "- start plans for user research in Ecuador: snowflake webpage? tor browser download page?"
16:10:21 <nah> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/ux/research/-/issues/81
16:11:06 <nah> so, we will have the oportunity to run user research activity with ppl from ecuador
16:11:20 <nah> the activities will be online
16:11:25 <donuts> what dates (roughly) will the training and research be scheduled for nah?
16:11:34 <nah> we have time!
16:11:37 <nah> it's q3
16:11:40 <donuts> ohhh perfect
16:11:51 <nah> august, most likely
16:12:52 <nah> it will be a tor training
16:12:56 <nah> (desktop and android)
16:13:09 <donuts> got it
16:13:13 <nah> and i think we can benefit a lot from running a study about the download page
16:13:33 <nah> we'll probably have many first time users :)
16:14:14 <donuts> so we need to include some changes to /download this/next month as part of S9 phase 5
16:14:30 <donuts> and this is a great opportunity to re-test the page afterwards
16:15:12 <donuts> so I agree :)
16:15:34 <championquizzer> do we have a ticket about this? ^
16:15:35 <nah> nice. do we need to run additional tests before that? i can try to schedule some with s9 orgs as well, i needed
16:15:43 <donuts> championquizzer: yep, two secs...
16:15:45 <nah> if*
16:15:53 <nah> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/ux/research/-/issues/81
16:16:14 <donuts> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/web/tpo/-/issues/248
16:16:19 <nah> a-ha
16:16:43 <nicob> I'm going to start working on this ticket this week actually :)
16:17:06 <donuts> nah: mmmm
16:17:14 <championquizzer> v nice. thanks!
16:17:21 <donuts> in an ideal world it might be good to test the design changes before they get implemented
16:17:28 <nah> hehe
16:17:29 <donuts> but I'm also aware you've got a _lot_ on your plate recently
16:17:50 <donuts> so I'm fine just waiting until ecuador and collecting feedback organically
16:18:09 <nah> ok! ty
16:18:36 <nah> next one is also mine: "start scheduling s101 interviews #76"
16:18:43 <donuts> woohoo
16:18:59 <nah> so, it's been a week since the interview script was sent to the vpn group
16:19:06 <nah> to receive feedback
16:19:10 <donuts> did you get any feedback?
16:19:11 <donuts> oh
16:19:12 <donuts> lol
16:19:13 <nah> we got very nice comments
16:19:15 <nah> yes
16:19:15 <nah> haha
16:19:31 <donuts> actually I see some comments in the pad
16:19:45 <nah> https://pad.riseup.net/p/vpn-uBkNj9bLU5ueXre-keep
16:20:10 <nah> i really appreciate all feedback given <3
16:20:34 <nah> gonna start working on this today, so we can start scheduling the interviews
16:20:52 <donuts> fantastic, thanks nah!
16:20:57 <donuts> I'll give the comments a read too
16:21:16 <nah> thanks, donuts!
16:21:35 <nah> this is all for bold items, but i also got an item for discussion
16:21:35 <nah> hehe
16:22:02 <donuts> thanks nah! let's pass the floor over to championquizzer and then we'll circle back to the agenda
16:22:28 <championquizzer> ty!
16:22:51 <championquizzer> user support report for apr: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2022-May/003365.html
16:23:27 <championquizzer> thanks to the weekly syncs, we have pretty much discussed everything that went into the report for previous month
16:23:45 <donuts> \o/
16:24:30 <nah> :D
16:24:34 * donuts is reading over it again
16:24:41 <championquizzer> let me know if you'd like to discuss anything in particular
16:24:57 <championquizzer> 3 RT Tickets - Bug  in rendering webpages (on Tor Browser for Android
16:25:01 <championquizzer> on Samsung S22)
16:25:13 <donuts> I was just about to ask how that's going
16:25:21 <championquizzer> i was lurking on reddit this weekend, found this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TOR/comments/unkkhb/weird_characters_on_web_pages_after_open_browser/i8hyxk2/?context=3
16:25:38 <championquizzer> so yes, looks like a very specific issue with this device
16:25:45 <donuts> oh good catch
16:26:09 <donuts> given the team's capacity, I don't think we'll manage to get to this soon
16:26:26 <donuts> I'm impressed that the devs have been managing to get android releases out at all
16:26:43 <championquizzer> yes, very nice work on fenix#40212 \o/
16:27:20 <donuts> https://forum.torproject.net/t/secure-connection-not-available-on-https-sites/2913
16:27:22 <donuts> this is interesting
16:27:49 <championquizzer> yep
16:28:12 <donuts> I can't seem to replicate it
16:28:54 <donuts> oh I'm using Alpha, I should try manually enabling https-only in stable
16:30:18 <donuts> okay giving it a quick test now...
16:30:36 <championquizzer> hrm, will follow up with this one as well
16:30:59 <donuts> can't replicate it in stable either
16:31:27 <donuts> potential blip with their certificate maybe? would be interesting to follow up with the user and see if they're still experiencing the issue
16:31:50 <donuts> also whether they observe the same behavior in FF
16:32:03 <donuts> or different exits
16:32:49 <donuts> okay shall I move on with the agenda?
16:32:59 <championquizzer> one quick thing
16:33:04 <donuts> sure!
16:33:26 <championquizzer> one user reported on IRC yesterday, issue similar to https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/40679
16:33:42 <championquizzer> they have filed a new ticket:
16:33:42 <donuts> aha yes, on windows?
16:33:46 <championquizzer> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/40922
16:33:51 <championquizzer> yes windows
16:34:03 <donuts> yep, I have the tab open to look into :)
16:34:11 <donuts> I seem to remember getting another report some time in the past month too
16:34:23 <championquizzer> yeah!
16:34:59 <championquizzer> thanks for looking donuts!
16:35:13 <championquizzer> that's all updates from me for now :)
16:35:20 <donuts> it looks like they're using stable but I can't see the version number
16:35:56 <donuts> okay I'll follow up with the devs! thank you championquizzer!
16:35:57 <championquizzer> going by Firefox ESR 91.9.0 ..it seems 11.0.11?
16:36:24 <donuts> oh yep in the screenshot!
16:36:32 <championquizzer> ( i couldn't follow up with them yesterday because the irc -matrix bridge was very laggy yesterday :/)
16:37:06 <donuts> we've got a few more items in the agenda and only 20 mins left in the meeting, so I'll try and fire through the next one quickly
16:37:30 <donuts> you may have noticed that using the same versioning scheme for android and desktop doesn't really make sense anymore
16:38:06 <donuts> given that the number increases sequentially with each release, and android and desktop are no longer released simultaneously (i.e. they tend to leapfrog each other)
16:38:38 <donuts> this situation is about to get weirder too
16:39:12 <donuts> because 11.5a11 for desktop will likely see release before 11.5a10 Android for android
16:39:28 <donuts> so we'll go a11 -> a10 - > a12 :s
16:40:05 <donuts> anyway, the conclusion the applications team have arrived at is that we should use distinct versioning schemes for android and desktop
16:40:21 <donuts> we also need to consider the firefox versions each are based on
16:41:05 <donuts> the first proposal suggests combining these, e.g. 99.0.0-tb12
16:41:08 <gaba> great donuts
16:41:20 <donuts> where the first few digits are the fenix/firefox version number
16:42:10 <donuts> and the second proposal is to keep them separate, e.g. 12 (99.3.0-beta.3)
16:42:28 <donuts> the idea is that we'd increase the android release number by 1 integer for each stable release, similar to how firefox numbers things on their rapid release schedule
16:42:32 <donuts> ty gaba!
16:42:50 <donuts> anyway this is just a heads up, I'm going to pull this all together into a ticket with some more explanation for feedback :)
16:43:40 <championquizzer> ty for the updates, donuts
16:43:50 <donuts> I think it would work best if desktop retained the 11.5.1 style numbering scheme while we're on the ESR upgrade train, and Android can just rapidly tick up with each stable release regardless (e.g. 12 -> 13 -> 14 etc.)
16:44:10 <donuts> oops welcome back nicob :)
16:44:12 <nicob> (internet kicked me off, sorry)
16:44:22 <donuts> haha no worries!
16:44:41 <donuts> okay that's it from me unless anyone has any other comments/questions
16:44:48 <donuts> otherwise back to you nah for the Africa meetup?
16:44:51 <championquizzer> donuts: does fenix follow this (12 -> 13 -> 14)?
16:45:02 <championquizzer> since it's the rolling stable
16:45:10 <championquizzer> and firefox mobile doesn't have a esr
16:46:14 <donuts> championquizzer: yep I believe so
16:46:20 <championquizzer> ah i see
16:46:23 <championquizzer> sorry, nah :)
16:46:27 <donuts> the difference is they have both android and desktop on a rapid release cycle
16:46:31 <donuts> whereas we only have android
16:46:44 <championquizzer> right
16:46:45 <donuts> so it's easier for mozilla to use the same scheme for both
16:47:10 <donuts> anyway I figured we should just do the same and stop pretending we have major android releases anyway
16:47:30 <donuts> nah: are you still around?
16:47:34 <nah> i am
16:47:38 <donuts> woo
16:48:06 <nah> i'll take the mic then
16:48:18 <donuts> please go ahead!
16:48:26 <nah> next week the community team will be hosting the East Africa meetup
16:48:29 <nah> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/training/-/issues/27
16:48:44 <nah> and we have a topic to share at the meetup
16:49:08 <nah> on the latam meetup, i presented the last research updates, as well the new connect assist
16:49:22 <nah> because many east africa countries experience censorship events
16:49:41 <nah> we thought it would be good to spend more time talking about the connect assist
16:49:49 <nah> so, this is our topic:
16:49:49 <nah> Tor UX last updates and Tor Browser Alpha release - lead by UX team (15 minutes)
16:49:51 <donuts> yep, that sounds good!
16:49:52 <nah> Goal: Explain how this release can impact on Tor users in East Africa and how it's important the community feedback (for example, to adjust the circumvention settings).
16:50:11 <nah> i wonder if you want to participate and present part of this talk, donuts?
16:50:13 <nah> :)
16:50:18 <nah> if you have time, of course
16:50:30 <donuts> i'd be delighted too
16:50:56 <nah> great!
16:51:04 <donuts> May 26th?
16:51:09 <donuts> is there an event in nextcloud?
16:51:14 <nah> yep
16:51:26 <donuts> okay great, I'll dig it out and add myself to it
16:51:27 <donuts> thanks nah!
16:51:36 <nah> great! ty!
16:51:40 <donuts> will you be speaking about anything at the meetup?
16:52:03 <nah> i thought i would take 5 min and share our last research findings
16:52:10 <donuts> yeah that sounds good
16:52:16 <nah> is 10 min enough for you?
16:52:22 <donuts> yep should be fine
16:52:53 <nah> great!
16:52:57 <nah> that's all for this topic :)
16:52:59 <donuts> thanks nah!
16:53:02 <donuts> last up:
16:53:09 <donuts> "Community QA recruitment campaign update"
16:53:19 <donuts> so nicob and the comms team launched the campaign on thursday last week
16:53:25 <donuts> which you all know already
16:53:29 <nah> \o/
16:53:31 <championquizzer> \o/
16:53:31 <donuts> because you've all been sharing the tweets :)
16:53:32 <nah> hehe
16:53:37 <donuts> anyway I just wanted to say thank you!
16:54:02 <donuts> unfortunately we've not had any feedback yet, but there has been a spike in new forum users joining
16:54:16 <donuts> so hopefully championquizzer will get to assign someone an alpha tester badge soon ^^
16:54:25 <championquizzer> oh yeah
16:55:05 <donuts> I still have it on my list to (maybe) do a blog post, and nicob it would be good to make sure this gets included in the next newsletter too
16:55:10 <donuts> (I'm sure al will do that anyway)
16:55:20 <nicob> will do!
16:55:35 <donuts> if we still don't get any feedback we may need to re-strategize with comms
16:55:44 <donuts> i find it hard to believe there aren't any bugs lol
16:56:16 <donuts> anyway that's it from me!
16:56:29 <donuts> any last comments/questions before I close the meeting?
16:56:58 <championquizzer> thanks everyone o/
16:57:05 <nicob> thanks all o/
16:57:10 <donuts> yep thanks for coming!
16:57:16 <donuts> see you same time next week o/
16:57:19 <donuts> #endmeeting