15:00:02 <richard> #startmeeting Tor Browser Weekly Meeting 2022-04-11
15:00:02 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Apr 11 15:00:02 2022 UTC.  The chair is richard. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:02 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:24 <richard> usual stuffs please, update your boards, fill in the discussion points, complete todo list, etc
15:01:29 <aguestuser> o/
15:02:00 <richard> hello hello
15:02:11 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> Hi!
15:08:25 * sysrqb lurks
15:09:11 <richard> ok everyone
15:09:47 <richard> so last week i noticed we were basically hogging the entire #tor-dev channel with tor browser dev chat
15:10:14 <richard> which is great and all, but i do worry that when we do that we are kind of taking over the space, and preventing everyone else from have any sort of conversation
15:10:30 <richard> so i made a #tor-browser-dev channel (which I think y'all are already mostly in)
15:10:43 <richard> for when we need to go hard on tor-browser nonsense
15:11:02 <richard> ok second up
15:11:06 <richard> tor-browser-android
15:11:15 <GeKo> might be worth announcing that one if not done so already
15:11:16 <richard> wow what a nightmare
15:11:26 <GeKo> (in case it's meant to be a public channel anyway)
15:11:48 <richard> yeah i mean, it's not private but i guess we can also announce on the tor-dev list
15:11:49 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> richard, so, when I want to ask a question about Tor Browser dev, is the intent that I should use the new channel, or am I expected to use some heuristic to decide which channel to use (e.g. activity level in #tor-dev)?
15:12:41 <richard> heh, so mostly I think we should keep the majority of our coms in #tor-dev, and only move over once it's become clear no-one else in #tor-dev can have a conversation over us
15:13:03 <GeKo> richard: or tbb-dev, dunno
15:13:09 <richard> but if you need to ping us doing so in the #tor-browser-dev channel may also be useful since less likely to be drowne din other chat
15:13:24 <GeKo> but some kind of notification for potentially interested folks might be good
15:13:48 <richard> like i said, it's mostly there so other people can use #tor-dev when we need to have in-depth tor-browser conversations
15:13:57 <Jeremy_Rand_Talos> richard, ok
15:14:18 <richard> ok second up, tor-browser-android
15:14:21 <aguestuser> hot take: i would prefer to talk in a room where there wasn't constant crosstalk as a general rule. (perhaps i am an outlier tho)
15:14:34 <richard> aguestuer: yeah same :)
15:14:45 <boklm> mentioning it on tbb-dev sounds like a good idea
15:15:12 <aguestuser> (ie: i would prefer to default to using the smaller room always)
15:15:30 <aguestuser> (and if people are interested in that topic they can come there... i know this can lead to room proliferation)
15:15:43 <richard> I'm sure we''ll converge to some usage that makes sense for our workflows
15:15:53 <aguestuser> cool! please go ahead
15:16:18 <richard> Anyway, long term it's becoming clear having one person solely responsible for tor-browser android releases is a bad plan for the long-term viability of tor-browser-android being a thing
15:17:14 <sysrqb> +1
15:17:17 <richard> So to that end we're going to be doing *something* to lighten the load there
15:17:18 <aguestuser> +1
15:17:24 <richard> :)
15:17:45 <richard> tentatively the plan is to do some sort of periodic load balancing, by having the current tor-browser-android rebaser/auditer/etc be a rotating position
15:18:17 <richard> between at the very PieroV, aguestuser and myself
15:18:34 <aguestuser> "the very PieroV" is an amazing handle
15:18:51 <richard> I promise I'm a native English speaker
15:18:53 <richard> and not a cat
15:18:56 <aguestuser> as if "V" was the name and "piero" is an adjective
15:18:56 <sysrqb> :)
15:19:10 <PieroV> ;)
15:19:13 <aguestuser> (an adjective denoting awesomeness)
15:19:26 <PieroV> richard: if you want to we can rotate also rebasing of Tor Browser
15:19:39 <PieroV> (I mean Tor Browser desktop)
15:19:44 <richard> PieroV: yeah I think that will def be necessary on months where it's my turn :)
15:20:12 <richard> fortunately Tor-Browser desktop *just works* for the most part
15:20:12 <richard> ;)
15:20:16 <richard> until it doesn't
15:20:17 <PieroV> right now TBA consists of at least 3 rebases
15:21:08 <PieroV> and last times we sorta split them
15:21:22 <richard> So PieroV in the short term, tor-browser-android should be considered lower priority than any outstanding TB tickets w/ regards to s96 work
15:22:07 <PieroV> richard: okay, I think I'm going to be done with the latest donuts' requests soon :)
15:22:19 <richard> but for aguestuser's sanity I'd like you to take the lead on TBA 99 once that's complete
15:22:35 <PieroV> I already have a branch that could be almost entirely merged
15:22:57 <PieroV> I'd say that I could take it tomorrow my afternoon/on Wednesday
15:22:58 <donuts> just a word of warning: there will probably be constant donuts requests up until the next alpha, but they'll be moderated by how frequently i can stop doing other things and test/create tickets :)
15:23:20 <donuts> (thank you for everything so far!)
15:24:36 <PieroV> donuts: np, if it's just small things I can do them in not a long time, and I tend to parallelize (Android takes a long time... for everything!)
15:24:59 <donuts> ha got it
15:25:36 <richard> aguestuser: take a break from android build fixing for awhile until we have a concrete plan of who's doing what and when; take some time off or go work on something you want to work on but can't because of build problems, whatever makes your heart sing
15:25:47 <aguestuser> :)
15:25:51 <PieroV> +1
15:25:58 <aguestuser> thanks. will do. :)
15:26:19 <aguestuser> appreciate it. <3
15:26:27 <richard> ok
15:26:33 <boklm> (occasionally there are android releases without major problems to fix. or a least, it has already happened in the past)
15:27:02 <richard> something to look forward to :)
15:27:03 <richard> ok, PieroV
15:27:09 <richard> tell me some good news about docs
15:27:28 <PieroV> I've published a page I had started to work on for a long time!
15:27:39 <PieroV> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/team/-/wikis/Development-Information/Codebases
15:28:01 <PieroV> And then I think we should start writing the discoveries me and aguestuser did for the problems we had
15:28:12 <PieroV> also the small things, like the fat .aar procedure, that seems obscure at least
15:28:23 <aguestuser> yes!
15:28:35 <aguestuser> and stuff about how to build from source when/if needed
15:29:22 <PieroV> also as a reaction of the docs discussions that all the Tor teams had
15:31:00 <richard> I love it
15:31:41 <richard> speaking of docs (or at least docs adjacent topis), I'm *really* loving gitlab issue templates for those repetitive tasks
15:32:10 <richard> I've found the workflow of just having a checklist to go thorugh w/ each tor-browser rebase very helpful, and I'm in the middle of the same for network audits
15:32:23 <richard> so I would encourage y'all to push your own templates where appropriate
15:32:34 <PieroV> nice!
15:33:20 <richard> ok, any other things to discuss this meeting?
15:33:29 <PieroV> quick state of the releases?
15:33:37 <richard> ah yes
15:33:54 <PieroV> (and update the pad if needed :))
15:34:39 <richard> 11.0.10 came out last week, and 11.5a9 is built and my task for this week is sign and upload(?)
15:34:49 <PieroV> 11.0.10 has been built, but isn't on dist
15:35:39 <PieroV> oh, never mind
15:35:53 <richard> :)
15:35:58 <PieroV> it's me not thinking that for a computer .10 < .8
15:36:28 <PieroV> I'd love that all lists used natsort
15:36:29 <richard> boklm, sysrqb: first time going through this process so I'm sure I'll run into some problems at some point to expect IRC pings from me :p
15:36:53 <richard> PieroV: and I'd love if everything had leading 0s :D
15:37:09 <boklm> richard: do you have all passwords and things needed to do it?
15:37:27 <richard> I have no idea, we'll find out :)
15:37:41 <boklm> ok :)
15:37:50 <richard> my ssh key has allegedy been added where needed, and I have a big encrypted doc with instructions from sysrqb
15:38:14 <richard> but this is why I'm starting with an alpha release that isn't important
15:38:17 <sysrqb> richard: let's chat when you're ready to go through it :)
15:38:26 <richard> well, important isn't the right word  but you know what I mean
15:38:39 <richard> alright that's all I have
15:38:40 <boklm> yes, that is less urgent than a stable
15:38:56 <richard> yes exactly :)
15:39:51 <richard> does anyone else have additional topics?
15:39:59 * PieroV doesn't
15:40:25 <richard> alright see you all on IRC
15:40:27 <richard> #endmeeting