14:00:34 <donuts> #startmeeting ux monthly sync
14:00:34 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Sep  7 14:00:34 2021 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:00:34 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:00:43 <donuts> good morning everyone :)
14:00:57 <donuts> who's all here for today's UX team meeting?
14:01:27 <nah> o/
14:02:39 <antonela> o/
14:02:56 <donuts> hi both!!
14:03:01 <donuts> nice to see you antonela ^^
14:04:18 <antonela> hellohello
14:04:28 <nah> hi antonela o/
14:04:57 <donuts> looks like it might just be us today
14:05:15 <donuts> which gives us plenty time to talk about the first VPN survey :D
14:05:26 <antonela> great stuff!
14:05:48 <donuts> would you like to give a general introduction to the script you've been working on nah?
14:05:58 <donuts> and then we can review and add comments together?
14:06:08 <nah> yes!
14:06:13 <donuts> ty! :)
14:07:09 <nah> we're working on a "discovery" study to understand our user needs regarding vpns
14:07:22 <nah> we'll use a survey for this study
14:08:07 <nah> with two screens, (1) demographics with focus on vpn uses - if the user use a vpn already, with they use vpn with tor, wwhy they use vpn, why they use tor
14:08:34 <nah> one of the things we aim with this is to have a listing of most mentioned vpns
14:09:22 <nah> for the second part of the study (2) we'll ask questions to understand users needs regard privacy, security and anonymity when using vpn
14:09:33 <nah> as well their understanding of fingerprinting
14:09:41 <nah> and risks involved when using tor with third-party apps
14:10:56 <nah> for recruitment we will use mailing lists and tor browser banners
14:12:27 <donuts> for context antonela, our planned workflow for the research phase is: vpn discovery study -> competitor analysis -> vpn features study/workshop(s) -> brand study/workshop(s)
14:12:46 <donuts> (I think I've got the order right)
14:12:50 <antonela> lovely
14:12:51 <nah> (i added the pad to the meeting pad)
14:13:00 <donuts> thanks nah!
14:13:04 <nah> yep! thanks, duncan!
14:13:44 <antonela> every time we met a group someone asked "how i can route all my desktop traffic via tor"
14:14:07 <antonela> that sounds a sensible roadmap!
14:14:21 <donuts> ha yess, ty!
14:14:37 <nah> i think one of the challenges of this study is to ask the right questions to understand user needs regarding privacy/security/anonymity.
14:14:50 <nah> and if they understand the difference between these terms
14:15:01 <donuts> nah: I did a more detailed review this morning nah and added more comments to the pad, I think it's looking great though
14:15:58 <donuts> let me know if you have any Qs!
14:16:52 <nah> hmm should we explain what a tor-powered vpn would be?
14:17:26 <donuts> I was kind of thinking if we rolled those Qs together and presented the question _with_ the list, it's more obvious what we mean
14:17:31 <donuts> if that makes sense?
14:18:13 <donuts> and then we don't need to worry about the exact wording of the Q so much
14:19:00 <donuts> (just an idea, feel free to disagree)
14:19:37 <donuts> oh sorry nevermind nah, I misread your question!
14:19:55 <donuts> I thought you were referring to Q1
14:20:06 <nah> hehe
14:20:19 <nah> maybe in the summary of the second screen
14:20:20 <antonela> love the idea of trying to shape/define mental models around privace, security and anonimity, the nice thing is trying to link it with the product we can offer
14:20:30 <antonela> *privacy
14:20:39 <antonela> *anonymity
14:21:04 * antonela new keyboard is w e i r d
14:21:46 <nah> like explaining what is tor and what a tor-powered vpn would be - but not sure if we should explain tor-powered vpn
14:21:49 <nah> hmmmm
14:22:27 <donuts> nah: yeah, I hear you – let me have a think
14:22:45 <donuts> I def think we can roll Q12 and 13 together if we get the wording right
14:23:06 <antonela> Q4 -  can we expand? when do you use a vpn? why? how [do you think] it protects you?
14:23:14 <nah> ohhh i see
14:23:23 <nah> (about q12 and q13)
14:23:47 <donuts> ^ agree with antonela, we touch on the contexts in Q3
14:23:53 <donuts> maybe they need split out and expanded on
14:24:05 <donuts> (the when/why questions I mean)
14:24:18 <nah> i think we already have this questions, antonela, if the person says "yes"
14:25:42 <donuts> oh sorry, so we do
14:26:07 <nah> agreed that why should go earlier
14:26:18 * nah looking at the pad
14:26:27 <donuts> maybe make it the first question in the branch?
14:26:41 <donuts> branch/thread
14:27:37 <nah> like we have "do you use tor -> how often -> why"
14:27:58 <nah> we can do the same for vpn
14:28:05 <antonela> yep
14:28:12 <antonela> and then, do you use both together?
14:28:22 <donuts> yeah that makes sense!
14:28:50 <antonela> and you can go deeper > how? "tor over vpn", "vpn over tor", "im not sure, it just work"
14:29:13 <antonela> maybe it is getting to granular and long, not sure
14:30:02 <antonela> *too
14:30:52 <nah> yep, if the user doesn't use vpn, they will skip all these questions, jump to the remain demographics (gender, country) and then the second screen
14:31:49 <nah> we will focus on android atm
14:32:15 <nah> (q13)
14:32:21 <antonela> sounds good
14:32:34 <antonela> i made some comments regarding the options for mobile browsers
14:32:40 <donuts> yeah, I'm not sure
14:32:48 <donuts> earlier questions make the survey seem more device-agnostic
14:32:57 <donuts> like where we ask on what devices they use a VPN
14:33:15 <donuts> so it would follow we need to give a list of browsers available on both mobile and desktop
14:33:30 <donuts> I guess we need to make a final decision if this survey is mobile-specific or not
14:33:51 <donuts> if so, we'll need to make the wording ultra clear so we don't get desktop VPN users responding
14:34:02 <donuts> unless the intention behind the platform question is to filter these out?
14:34:17 <nah> yes, it is
14:34:22 <donuts> gotcha
14:34:39 <nah> however, if we have vpn users for both mobile and other devices
14:34:46 <nah> filtering will be hard anyway
14:35:19 <nah> unless we split the browser questions (in your mobile, which browser / in your computer...)
14:37:08 <donuts> do we need to cover OS too?
14:38:20 <donuts> (as in ask participants what OS they're using?)
14:38:31 <nah> not sure
14:38:50 <nah> if we have users from lineageOS, calyxOS...
14:39:12 <nah> but we should ask the developers if that's important
14:40:19 <donuts> what do you mean sorry (re: the devs question)?
14:40:56 <nah> if it is important to know which OS users use
14:41:26 <nah> (i'm adding this points to the top of the vpn pad)
14:41:34 <nah> point*
14:41:40 <nah> so i'll check later
14:41:42 <donuts> oh sorry, you mean ask the tor devs!
14:41:48 <donuts> I'm following now
14:41:52 <nah> yes! haha sorry
14:41:59 <donuts> yes, good question
14:42:22 <antonela> if this is a discovery kind of survey, i'd avoid making device/platform specific questions BUT i bet we want some data to learn which OS prioritize in terms of support for example
14:42:52 <donuts> yep, that's fair – I was moreso thinking incase we want to filter out iOS users
14:43:00 <antonela> at the same time, i know this project focus on android mobile at the moment
14:43:09 <antonela> right, so, not sure, its a good conversation to have with devs for sure
14:43:28 <donuts> yeah, okay let's have a think about this – it's the last big Q remaining
14:43:40 <donuts> I have a sync with isa later and I can get her opinion on it too
14:43:46 <donuts> (although I think I know what she'll say ^^)
14:44:25 <antonela> haha
14:44:54 <nah> :)
14:45:05 <donuts> thanks so much for your help antonela! and for putting this together nah! it's looking fantastic
14:45:32 <nah> thanks, antonela and duncan :)
14:46:02 <antonela> yes, great work nah, happy to run the first test round
14:46:32 <donuts> On to the next and last item in the agenda – the user feedback report!
14:46:40 <donuts> https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-project/2021-September/003177.html
14:47:25 <donuts> I wonder if kulsoom_z[m] is around to chat us through it?
14:48:31 <donuts> I notice there are still some reports of confusion over the V2 deprecation, we've obviously removed the about:tor banner which suggests they're either from users who haven't updated their browser yet
14:48:52 <donuts> or are about the V2 deprecation error itself
14:49:22 <donuts> (for reference, just 9 tickets – so not a huge amount)
14:50:39 <donuts> did anyone else notice anything unusual in this month's report?
14:51:28 <antonela> are we tracking about:connect issues in a central place? i owe sharing some notes there but im sure it improved a lot from last time
14:52:10 <nah> nope. but i should do it
14:53:05 <donuts> I have an offline list of applications tickets I'm using to track design/UX fixes – but a master list would be good
14:53:23 <donuts> (for the purpose of linking back to the report when I'm proposing a change)
14:53:39 <antonela> right
14:53:47 <donuts> e.g. here: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/applications/tor-browser/-/issues/29590#note_2749371
14:55:12 <donuts> I also need to write a centralized spec doc for the censorship circumvention feature, so having a full issue tracker for about:torconnect would be extra useful
14:55:19 <donuts> okay I've put that on my/our list!
14:56:05 <donuts> we could also add a new GL label and track them on a kanban
14:56:22 <donuts> (right now they just get added to user-feedback)
14:56:49 <nah> ^that would be good
14:56:53 <antonela> yep
14:57:22 <donuts> "torconnect 2.0" maybe
14:57:38 <donuts> or "torconnect feedback"
14:57:45 <donuts> okay leave that with me!
14:57:58 <donuts> we're two minutes until the hour, anything else or are we good?
14:58:23 <nah> good
14:58:29 <nah> :)
14:58:57 <donuts> thanks for all your hard work nah!
14:59:01 <donuts> and thanks for your help today antonela!
14:59:02 <donuts> <3
14:59:18 <donuts> pressing the button in 3, 2, 1...
14:59:25 <donuts> #endmeeting