16:59:50 #startmeeting Network team meeting, 16th august 2021 16:59:50 Meeting started Mon Aug 16 16:59:50 2021 UTC. The chair is ahf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:59:50 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:59:54 hello hello hello welcome 17:00:08 hello! 17:00:18 hi 17:00:33 our pad is at https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-netteam-2021.1-keep 17:00:44 let's give everybody a bit of time to check in 17:00:47 o/ 17:01:44 o/ 17:02:18 are folks doing OK on their boards? 17:02:31 https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/core/-/boards 17:03:10 yes 17:03:22 hihi 17:03:45 i am good too, the interviewing and the release took a bit more time than i had thought last week 17:04:00 fine with kanban over here 17:04:50 great. i think for the release section the work we are doing on getting 0.3.5, 0.4.5 and 0.4.6 out today have dealt with the most urgent of the tickets in there 17:05:12 yup. I have a discussion item to go over our remaining steps if that's cool? 17:05:45 yeah same for me I have a question so could be the smae hehe 17:05:54 shall we get those done now? 17:05:59 sure 17:06:42 * jnewsome slips in after missing cal notification 17:06:47 2021-08-16 [nickm] Remaining stuff to do on release and timing it? 17:06:50 jnewsome: o/ 17:06:51 quite simple, so how do we proceed with git tag considering I have the latest commits here but usually Nick signs the tag as well ? :S 17:06:59 so here is what I'd suggest: 17:07:23 when we're ready, you push all the commits. Then I tag and sign and upload tarballs. Then you do the rest. 17:07:38 sounds good to me 17:07:48 Let's do that after we're done with interviews today, so we aren't distracted 17:08:14 hm, i am gonna be very much afk after the last interview tonight since it's ... 22 at that time i think for me :-/ 17:08:19 the "rest" is what? announcement? 17:08:30 o/ 17:08:40 update website, tell tor-packagers, wait for website to update, announce on tor-announce, announce on blog 17:09:05 then do post-announcement stuff listed in ReleasingTor.md: bumping versions to end with -dev, copying ReleaseNotes and ChangeLog to main, ... 17:09:23 i also need to do the CVE update, but i guess that must wait to tomorrow 17:09:25 I think that's all 17:10:14 dgoulet: if i stick around for drafting announcement after interviews, are you up for publishing it ? 17:10:22 no choice ;) 17:10:41 XD i can stick around longer though, should be possible 17:10:43 let's try 17:10:48 ok! 17:10:48 I mean I can't publish it... it requires www power I don't have 17:10:51 but I can email easy 17:10:55 ah 17:11:02 no blog account? 17:11:19 or can't update website? 17:11:24 update website 17:11:38 ok, that's fast and easy; I can do it if ahf doesn't hve time 17:11:58 i don't have access i think. i think i have blog access 17:12:42 ok 17:13:14 ok, did we resolve both dgoulet's question AND nickm's first item on the pad? 17:13:23 i think so! 17:13:28 excellent 17:13:56 we have no new things from other team's, except a ticket for nethealth that dgoulet filed 17:14:11 tor#40448 17:14:13 yeah but it was more as a reference for future so 17:14:23 as in not tied to any urgency or milestone 17:14:27 ya 17:14:32 we have a discussion item more: 17:14:34 2021-08-16 [nickm] Plans for this week's arti meeting? 17:14:55 Yes. Basically: I'm hoping we can plan more than last week; any thoughts? 17:15:11 I could go over challenges and infelicities in the circuit timeout implementation 17:15:22 I could sketch out a guard implementation (which we've gotta build next) 17:15:25 I could talk about test coverage 17:15:35 we could do something more collaborative 17:15:38 we could brainstorm apis 17:15:48 any other ideas? I like the api brainstorming one a lot 17:15:54 this is the wednesday meeting? 17:16:14 yes 17:17:07 circuit timer implementation is the thing you have looked into recently that involved a lot of interesting code that haven't been poked at much in recent times, no? 17:17:18 where you had the set selection algorithms discoveries and what not 17:18:09 API ++ for me 17:18:32 yeah, it's the one i was implementing in arti over the past few weeks 17:19:19 API is interesting for me too, let's go with that one then 17:19:38 ok great! 17:19:57 we won't be able to finalize anything but maybe we can brainstorm some user stories or something 17:20:15 (this discussion item is solved to my satisfaction :) ) 17:20:28 yeah 17:20:35 ok! 17:20:39 i think we are at s61 17:20:59 ok! 17:21:16 so I put the updates on the pad 17:21:44 main things to highlight is that jnewsome did some work to let us run multiple sims at once on the machine 17:22:02 and hiro did some graphana graphing work of live data 17:22:28 we should schedule a meeting this week to discuss how to get baselines from the sim and compare to live 17:22:58 nod 17:23:09 \o/ 17:23:41 yes now what I am missing is seeing if we want to use graphana to display onionperf data or a jupyter notebook so the script can also be used in a CI pipeline and used to compare results 17:23:46 GeKo: I saw you and arma discussing experiment planning and schedule recording. it looked reasonable; I agree that at a high level, repeated trials is best, and documenting the dates of them 17:24:22 hiro: did you discuss how to get the tgen models out of onionperf with acute? 17:24:40 (should we try to get acute to attend our meeting? is she still doing onionperf work?) 17:24:45 great, i meant to point you to https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/network-health/team/-/issues/90 17:24:52 btw here's a successful run from friday with 3 trials. tornettools draws errorbars when there are multiple trials: https://gitlab.torproject.org/jnewsome/sponsor-61-sims/-/jobs/32308/artifacts/file/public/tornet.plot.pages.pdf 17:25:20 mikeperry: i am quite happy with it for a v1 policy and start testing it in the current situation 17:25:26 they're pretty wide since this was only a 1% sim and only 3 trials. i think we'll want to bump up to at least a 10% network for 'real' results 17:25:44 mikeperry: so, if there is anything you feel you want to add, now-ish would be a good time 17:26:12 otherwise i'll draft something this week and get back to rob and the other folks accordingly 17:26:12 GeKo: do you have such a draft already? I do not see it on the ticket 17:26:16 no 17:26:27 i wanted to collect arma's and your opinions first 17:26:38 and start a draft with those included 17:26:58 i can do that this week and you can look over it by the end of it 17:27:02 and we take it from there 17:27:02 GeKo: so I had an old schedule with the idea for a schedule when brainstorming things 1.5 years ago: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/team/-/wikis/NetworkTeam/Sponsor61/PerformanceExperiments 17:27:37 the first few paragraphs echo what arma said, I think. similar idea 17:28:03 I don't have strong opinions on the actual schedule or coordination mechanism tho 17:28:27 i see, okay 17:29:16 I wonder if the scripts from https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/network-health/team/-/issues/44 will also be useful for shadow investigtion or not 17:30:41 with respect to work on Prop#324, I got a simple XON/XOFF implementation working for onion services 17:31:22 dgoulet: I made a ticket with next steps, several of which I could use your help/input on: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/tor/-/issues/40450 17:31:52 mikeperry: yes yes! 17:32:00 mikeperry: true, I promised you that last week, ok anytime this week! 17:32:24 nickm,dgoulet: I also made a clearer checklist of what is needed for the full end-to-end protover and negotiation work: https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/tor/-/issues/40444 17:33:07 nice 17:35:13 it might be tight to make sept 15th, esp since we are all also doing this hiring process, but with help, it still might be possible 17:35:34 mikeperry: i *think* acute has no hours left 17:35:50 but maybe she'd be able to attend a meeting anyway? 17:36:54 https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/network-health/metrics/onionperf/-/issues/40024#note_2745275 is the last i am aware of in that regard 17:37:08 juga: are you around by chance? 17:37:14 GeKo: yes 17:37:23 k, i wondered about https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/network-health/sbws/-/issues/40022#note_2747197 :) 17:37:39 that's something for the network-team to look at we need help with 17:38:10 but i am probably missing some details... 17:38:22 lol the .exit hack of arma2 17:38:32 I've seen that for "bermuda" :) 17:38:40 right :) 17:40:53 aha, so such a thing would still have to be an actual relay that we would have to rate limit somehow otherwise, so it doesn't get used as a middle and mess with results 17:42:23 i am not sure why we can't hack that up just for ourselves for the sbws part 17:42:26 I wonder if the ancient POSTDESCRIPTOR approach could work 17:42:34 and why this needs to be an actually feature in tor 17:42:42 but that could be part of the details i am missing :) 17:42:47 it might also need UseMicroDescriptors 0, and some other hacks to use the descriptor tho 17:43:47 GeKo: it certainly would be easier for deployment of sbws if it was something standard in Tor.. though I guess that also depends on how the deployment process works 17:44:43 i have to run a bit to prepare for the hiring meeting in 15 min :-/ can people hilight me here when i need to stop the bot? 17:45:00 sure 17:45:02 yeah I am pretty much done unless there are more questions 17:45:05 oh 17:45:08 anything else? :-) 17:45:18 * dgoulet is good 17:45:23 mikeperry: GeKo: afiu, if we want to exit to localhost, we need arma2 hack, the POSTDESCRIPTOR/private is transversal 17:45:43 * GeKo is fine 17:45:44 we can continue discussing that somewhere else 17:45:50 * juga is fine 17:45:53 jnewsome,hiro,acute, maybe Geko: we should try to sync later about shadow vs live comparisons, but today I am literally back-to-back meetings all daty 17:46:06 and i am done for today :) 17:46:08 mikeperry: ok 17:46:28 awesome, see you all around o/ 17:46:30 #endmeeting