13:59:47 <donuts> #startmeeting ux monthly sync
13:59:47 <MeetBot> Meeting started Tue Aug  3 13:59:47 2021 UTC.  The chair is donuts. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:59:47 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:59:54 <donuts> hello hello hello
14:00:00 <donuts> who's here for the ux team meeting today?
14:00:41 <nah> hello o/
14:01:29 <donuts> hey nah ^^
14:01:52 <donuts> agenda here: https://pad.riseup.net/p/1D8sK8Zy74b_0qclC97I-ux-team-monthly-2020-keep
14:01:58 <ggus> o/
14:02:04 <donuts> ggus o/
14:02:05 <kulsoom_z[m]> hii o/
14:02:12 <donuts> hi kulsoom_z[m]!
14:02:47 <donuts> I added the user feedback report at the end of the agenda, hope you don't mind :)
14:02:53 <kevun[m]> Lurking.
14:03:02 <donuts> welcome kevun[m]!
14:03:08 <kevun[m]> Thanks!
14:03:47 <donuts> so first things first: we have one announcement of note today
14:04:06 <donuts> as of yesterday we've started a new project, "S96 – Rapid Expansion of Access to the Uncensored Internet through Tor in China, Hong Kong, & Tibet"
14:04:39 <donuts> which will require ongoing support from the UX team over the next couple of years, alongside two rounds of user research from the beginning of 2022
14:04:53 <antonela> hellooo
14:05:20 <donuts> the milestone gives a brief overview of the project and is worth a read for anyone who's interested: https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/-/milestones/24
14:05:24 <donuts> hi antonela!!
14:05:27 <nah> \o/
14:05:28 <antonela> donuts: good newsss!
14:05:53 <donuts> note: not all UX tickets have been created yet, however all the major objectives are listed there
14:06:40 <donuts> okay, on to the agenda
14:07:08 <donuts> I thought we could spend some time today collaborating on some tasks for the proposed tree testing of the proposed forum structure
14:07:27 <donuts> nah, could you give people a brief reminder of what we're doing, and how we're doing it?
14:07:35 <donuts> i.e. where you got to with limesurvey etc.
14:07:43 <donuts> if you don't mind :)
14:08:20 <nah> yes!
14:08:33 <nah> so, this is the structure proposed for the forum at the moment https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/support/-/issues/40026#note_2743220
14:09:12 <nah> and we want to test it using the tree testing methodology - i.e. we ask research participants to complete findability tasks by using this structure
14:09:22 <nah> that will be presented by our self hosted limesurvey
14:09:28 <nah> this is how it would look like
14:09:30 <nah> https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/community/support/-/issues/40026#note_2745608
14:10:51 <nah> our limitation with limesurvey is that it doesn't allow us to come with 'child answers' withouth 'child questions', i.e. let's say that after clicking 'Tor Browser' it should just appear the next structure, but there will always be another question like 'Then, where would you go' or something like this
14:11:34 <donuts> nah: I'm assuming we can add a different number of child items under each parent?
14:11:38 <donuts> is that correct?
14:11:44 <nah> yes, that's correct.
14:11:48 <donuts> perfect
14:12:23 <donuts> in that case, if there's an item without any children we just need to add a single one with a label like "select support"
14:12:31 <donuts> it's a little weird, but achieves the same result
14:12:50 <nah> we need to create new questions (structures) to each task, and add the answers using the option "add conditional"
14:13:10 <donuts> gotcha
14:14:00 <donuts> so we should end up with a row of buttons representing the top-level options of the forum, and when you click one the child items are revealed in a new row underneath – and so on
14:14:13 <donuts> the user will keep drilling down until they reach an end-point they can select
14:14:53 <donuts> does anyone have any questions about that (i.e. how the test will work) before we proceed to talking about the tasks?
14:15:19 <antonela> so cool you are going to run this methodology to define the content!
14:15:27 <antonela> im happy is happening !
14:16:14 <donuts> yesss, I'm impressed we can do it in limesurvey (tyvm for scoping that out nah!)
14:16:40 <antonela> the app is flexible yes, it has some ui bugs and weird turn arounds but is really flexible
14:16:53 <nah> yesss :)
14:17:18 <donuts> this is also a fun pilot of sorts, if we get usable data we can repurpose this test for future IA (e.g. app menus, site menus etc.)
14:18:15 <antonela> yess
14:18:43 <donuts> okay looks like we don't have any questions on _how it works_, let's move on to _what we're testing_ :D
14:19:29 <donuts> nah will build a copy of the forum structure in limesurvey, which we'll then ask participants to complete a list of search and locate tasks within
14:19:40 <donuts> for example, one task may be: "You've encountered a bug with Tor Browser on your phone. Where would you report it?"
14:20:22 <donuts> and the user will click through the structure until they select the section they'd use
14:20:43 <donuts> (it's important to note, the participant won't know if they're "right" or not – they're simply telling us _where_ they'd post)
14:21:06 <donuts> I've added some space to the pad for us to come up with some more tasks together
14:21:13 <nah> we should be careful when creating the tasks to not use the same wording for questions and answers "like, give us your feedback" and then present a "feedback" button
14:21:32 <donuts> so let's take 5 minutes to jot down any ideas :)
14:21:35 <donuts> yes, excellent point nah
14:23:05 <antonela> should we use a _user story_ kind of structure?
14:23:16 <antonela> oh okey i see
14:23:34 <donuts> there's a balance to be struck between being specific enough that the task is reasonably accomplishable, and vague enough that we're not making it unrealistically easy (by namedropping the target section in the question itself, as nah says)
14:24:38 <donuts> but we can worry about the precise wording later :)
14:26:21 <antonela> right, lets make sure we are listing top user stories here
14:26:31 <antonela> the community team can help on this too
14:27:37 <donuts> yep, absolutely
14:29:20 <donuts> okay, looks like we've got 11 ideas already, which is awesome!
14:30:09 <ggus> for tor training feedback on the forum, it's a thing that i thought, but didn't add now.
14:30:38 <donuts> ahh gotcha, ty for clarifying
14:31:05 <donuts> ggus/kulsoom_z[m] are there any other common user queries you'd like to test?
14:31:23 <donuts> we'll tidy this up and can continue iterating on the list in gitlab too
14:31:28 <ggus> lemme check the user feedback
14:31:33 <donuts> ty :)
14:32:43 <antonela> good stuff
14:32:54 <nah> and for the tree testing, it is recommended to run 10 or less tasks
14:33:17 <donuts> yeah, I normally aim for 8
14:33:27 <donuts> we have a little duplication too
14:34:46 <nah> yep!
14:35:01 <ggus> how many people we want for this test?
14:35:37 <nah> it's good to have at least 50 users testing it
14:35:43 <donuts> +1
14:36:12 <kulsoom_z[m]> looks good to me
14:36:26 <ggus> right, we will need to ask on the mailing lists: tor-relays, tor-project, global-south, ux?
14:36:40 <donuts> tor-qa too would be good
14:36:44 <donuts> but yep!
14:37:15 <ggus> i can ask emmapeel to fwd to translators too
14:37:49 <donuts> yess that's a great idea
14:38:18 <nah> +1
14:38:20 <donuts> we should include a couple of pre-survey questions at the beginning too nah (just simple ones, not full demographics)
14:38:31 <josernitos> hi. who is this forum for? If its tailored to hard-core tor users, then I think yes, tor-relays, project, etc. should be ok. But if we are trying to lure non-core users to engage with the forum, then I think this would not be the ideal participant
14:38:48 <donuts> maybe a "where did you hear about this survey from?" just in case we get a lot of participants from a single source, and need to adjust for that
14:38:50 <ggus> we can include as a banner on the next tor browser release
14:38:54 <nah> not sure about ux tho, usually uxers are not invited to ux tests
14:39:00 <ggus> hehe
14:39:38 <donuts> nah: good point
14:40:28 <donuts> I'm not sure we want to open the about:tor banner floodgates on this one though, hehe
14:40:44 <ggus> i was kidding hehe
14:41:05 <nah> hahaha thanks
14:41:08 <donuts> hahahaha
14:41:12 <donuts> i'm relieved
14:41:16 <ggus> hahaha
14:41:23 <donuts> josernitos makes a good point
14:41:55 <ggus> josernitos: we can share on /r/TOR
14:42:32 <donuts> yep, that sounds excellent – we should def include a referrer question in that case too
14:43:16 <donuts> okaydokes, let's pick up the next steps in the ticket – thanks everyone!
14:43:25 <donuts> kulsoom_z[m], I added the monthly user feedback report to the agenda
14:43:37 <donuts> but I've not had the chance to read it yet
14:44:11 <donuts> was there anything that stands out this month you'd like to chat about?
14:44:19 <donuts> (thanks very much for pulling it together, as always!)
14:44:28 <nah> yep, i was reading when we started the meeting too
14:45:33 * donuts is scanning through it now
14:45:36 <nah> i'm curious if we got something specific about the new connect button, and about bridges
14:45:52 <donuts> +1
14:46:36 <donuts> on # Onion Services, the banner should be gone in the next android alpha ggus – and removed from all platforms a week or so later
14:46:47 <kulsoom_z[m]> we had an increase in the onion v2 v3 upgrade and some know issues like : Saved Logins and Passwords are not available , can't set multiple pages as home pages etc etc
14:47:02 <kulsoom_z[m]> known*
14:47:04 <ggus> yay! thanks, donuts!
14:48:05 <kulsoom_z[m]> nah: not actually, just a couple of users asking about using bridges
14:48:05 <donuts> multiple homepages should be fixed as of 10.5.2 :)
14:48:35 <donuts> saved logins should be fixed too I believe, unsure what version though
14:49:03 <donuts> I think 10.5.2 too
14:49:18 <donuts> hrm, maybe not – I'll doublecheck
14:49:30 <kulsoom_z[m]> apart from this, there were some users getting blocked on sites (account suspended )
14:50:00 <donuts> kulsoom_z[m]: hrm, any more details about that?
14:51:02 <antonela> what does account suspended mean?
14:51:17 <antonela> is a cloudflare captcha error? do you have a screenshot?
14:52:43 <kulsoom_z[m]> for e.g. I can no longer surf with Tor Browser 10.5.2, DuckDuckGo, standard security level while I am looking for information on barbiturates I get this message: “This Account has been suspended. Contact your hosting provider for more information "
14:54:37 <donuts> strange, how many reports like this did we get?
14:54:48 <donuts> with the language, "This Account has been suspended"?
14:55:22 <nah> it's hard to understand if this means it is blocking tor or the user
14:56:16 <donuts> I've got my eye on the time and I'm aware we have another item on the agenda about the OTF SUA Lab RFP, was that you antonela?
14:56:27 <donuts> :)
14:56:31 <antonela> yes, just a mention for interested folks here
14:56:43 <donuts> yesss, I think the deadline is the end of the month for proposals?
14:56:49 <donuts> https://www.opentech.fund/news/request-for-proposal-for-otf-secure-usability-and-accessibility-lab/
14:57:03 <donuts> it's a great opportunity for UX & A11y practitioners
14:57:09 <antonela> yes, just to be clear is not for projects is for designers&devs^researchers who wants to work within OTF
14:57:19 <antonela> yes, tara is leading this lab and they are awesome
14:57:30 <antonela> so feel free to ping me if you have questions or email directly otf people
14:57:50 <donuts> thanks antonela!
14:57:56 <kulsoom_z[m]> donuts: 2 of them and others say sites block me.
14:57:56 <antonela> one more
14:58:35 <antonela> https://www.usenix.org/conference/enigma2022/call-for-participation is also open
14:58:38 <antonela> consider apply!
14:58:49 <donuts> kulsoom_z[m]: so two references to account suspension?
14:59:04 <antonela> all deadlines are August 25th !
14:59:39 <antonela> kulsoom_z[m]: could you find an screenshot of the error? it looks like a cf kind of wording
14:59:55 <donuts> ^ yep, I'm suspicious that's it
14:59:57 <josernitos> thanks antonela (:
15:00:12 <donuts> +1, thanks antonela!
15:00:40 <nah> thanks antonela :)
15:00:46 <donuts> I need to end on the hour today, anyone want to squeeze anything in before I push the button?
15:00:58 <donuts> going once
15:01:02 <donuts> going twice...
15:01:07 <antonela> glad to read you folks!
15:01:17 <antonela> <3
15:01:30 <donuts> you too!! <3
15:01:32 <donuts> #endmeeting