16:58:48 #startmeeting network team meeting october 19 2020 16:58:48 Meeting started Mon Oct 19 16:58:48 2020 UTC. The chair is ahf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 16:58:48 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 16:58:57 nice that last week i said it was the team meeting of october 31 16:59:01 wonder what i was thinking 16:59:05 anyway, hello! 16:59:13 ahf: clearly you have your costume already 16:59:15 hello 16:59:16 our pad is at https://pad.riseup.net/p/tor-netteam-2020.1-keep 16:59:16 hello everybody! 16:59:49 * nickm is dressed as a defcon 1992 attendee, but I won't tell you which :) 16:59:53 o/ 17:00:03 :o 17:00:13 is gaba around? :) 17:00:28 oh, i got 3 and 1 mixed around 17:00:50 i think EOY campaign is happening today, so i imagine there is tons of meetings in the org 17:00:53 unsure if gaba is here 17:00:56 https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/core/-/boards 17:01:05 how are we doing with our board? 17:01:30 doing okay; I've got a few things piled up in needs_review, but I think folks will get to them this week 17:01:38 I will update that heavily on my side, things are a bit out of date there 17:01:47 I moved a bunch of my backlog stuff to icebox, to make room for arti 17:02:02 sweet 17:02:10 also, there's an gitlab milestone for arti "milestone 3" now in case anybody cares :) 17:02:38 very nice. i guess you can also experiment a bit with using some of those features a bit more dynamically now that it is a from scratch project 17:02:44 im working on #40157 (alongside with dgoulet) 17:02:56 tor#40157 17:02:58 seems like we cant have multiple assignees 17:02:58 cool! 17:03:05 so dgoulet gets the ticket right now 17:03:16 asn: take it, I'll switch to #40158 17:03:20 switch myself* 17:03:28 thanks 17:03:28 o/ 17:03:30 im around now 17:04:15 hello gaba 17:04:27 asn, dgoulet: we good on reviewer assignments? 17:04:41 yeah 17:04:44 they have been assigned today 17:04:51 the assignments have been assigned 17:05:01 very nice 17:05:26 anything that have changed for 0.4.4 in terms of new things coming in? 17:05:48 044 ? 17:06:09 nope; but i have upcoming discussion questions that are related 17:06:13 looks like no new tickets 17:06:14 ack 17:06:59 nothing new about CoreTorReleases? 17:07:14 looks like we hit freeze last week, I think? 17:07:27 isn't this one of the things we can move to be once a month too? i don't think we have had any updates to that item on our meeting agenda except for when dgoulet found the off-by-2 recently 17:07:31 yep! last week 17:07:50 yeah, I think that can be monthly unless somebody objects 17:07:58 * ahf moves it to monthly 17:08:30 okay 17:08:33 Discuss anything related to Sponsor 61 for the week. https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/tor/-/issues/40143 17:08:58 i think dgoulet is deep into this one now with asn on it too 17:09:05 anything we need to discuss for our team in this meeting? 17:09:36 s61 seems to be fine for this week 17:10:48 yup I'm good 17:10:57 ok. it seems like it's moving. i still have some loose ends with the flashflow follow up, but they are on my todo for this week 17:10:57 yeah main things for this week are the tickets asn and dgoulet mentioned 17:11:01 we just discussed them 17:11:05 ah, perfect 17:11:07 thank you mikeperry! 17:11:33 i see no new issues in https://gitlab.torproject.org/tpo/core/team/-/issues and i don't think any of them needs discussion today 17:11:42 for flashflow, sbws, and things, we will need to decide which should count and come from s61. we can do that in Nov planning meeting 17:11:52 i think we should move this item maybe also to monthly and then have people note if they have something there they want discussed in a meeting? 17:11:57 mikeperry: yep 17:12:44 ssounds good 17:12:56 folks please give an ack so i know if you think it is a good idea or a horrible idea 8) 17:13:34 sounds good 17:13:40 no objection 17:13:45 excellent! 17:14:17 we have a big list of issues for other teams: https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/core/-/issues?scope=all&utf8=%E2%9C%93&state=opened&label_name[]=For%20Anticensorship%20Team 17:14:52 i am unsure who added it to the list? it seems like we have a few things for the anti-censorship team here 17:14:57 some are with sponsors some are without 17:15:14 some are probably more urgent than others; I think in all cases I asked the anticensorship team how urgent they considered them 17:15:28 i think the urgent ones is the one s30 one i have 17:15:36 probably only the 'Bug' ones are in scope for 045 at this point 17:15:42 i added that list. I think the stuff there is already resolved as you are working in the more urgent s30 stuff 17:15:54 still good to check this list every week 17:16:35 okay. i think i will look at it during the meeting and then if there is no changes to it, then i think i will skip it - sounds good? 17:16:42 * ahf tries to avoid having things each week added 17:16:55 yep 17:16:57 otherwise we are back to 30 min. of every-week-tasks i nthe meetings and less time for the open discussions 17:17:16 ok 17:17:46 okay 17:17:51 we are at discussion point: 17:17:53 [For Oct 19] I'd like to talk about the freeze and pending stuff. Specifically, I didn't finish prop315 till friday. Should we defer it or put it in? -nick 17:18:09 prop#315 17:18:25 Also thinking about prop 318, and the metricsport code 17:18:30 i think that is fine to get in? i think we are hoping a bit to get the metricsport code in 17:18:34 even though we are a bit late there 17:18:38 ya 17:18:46 * ahf is cool with it 17:18:53 * asn is OK with it 17:19:07 okay. So everything that is currently having an assigned reviewer is in-scope for 0.4.4? 17:19:14 ok 17:19:16 thats the rule 17:19:24 okay by me 17:19:27 err, 17:19:29 sounds good - maybe not as a rule but in this case it sounds good 17:19:29 in-scope for 0.4.5 17:19:33 yeah for 045 17:19:45 otherwise we will have a big backports conversation right away :-P 17:20:10 agree 17:20:20 excellent 17:20:48 [For Oct 19] What else do we do for the 0.4.5 freeze? -nick 17:20:56 i guess that is related to what we just talked about 17:20:59 or is there some additions here? 17:21:30 In the old situation, we would take everything that was in the 045 milestone but not done and triage it 17:21:38 and we'd mark things 045-should and 045-must 17:21:42 do we still want to do it like that? 17:22:27 * dgoulet not a fan. "MUST" should be in the milestone imo and the rest out :) 17:23:07 okay, so "MUST" for 045-final (045-release?) and everything else out? 17:23:24 i think the should option is a bit vague too maybe at this time? doing a pass for must and maybe putting it in the milestone sounds smart? 17:23:31 +1 17:23:40 should we have 045-release distinct from 045-final? 17:23:46 or use 045-final for this? 17:24:20 what would the difference be? 045-release is for first alpha? 17:24:21 045-final is the stable release? 17:24:25 so what would be 045-release? 17:24:35 I'm thining one for stable, and one for post-stable 17:24:46 ah 17:24:47 in the past we've used "final" for both 17:25:01 I would be fine with a post-stable milestone for all our backports :) 17:25:04 045-stable and 045-post-stable then i think is better 17:25:07 which could also have a End date of EOL 17:25:10 otherwise i will not remember any of this 17:25:14 yeah 17:25:19 stable and poststable are okay by me 17:25:22 +1 17:25:26 I can create them postmeeting if nobody objects 17:25:31 final is confusing.. -stable is very meaningful 17:25:34 awesome 17:25:46 Shall I also move "must" candidates into -stable? 17:25:52 or should we talk about what is a "must"? 17:26:02 maybe do a must pass at the upcoming thursday meeting? 17:26:04 in the past, must = "security, regressions, or crashes" 17:26:11 that would work too 17:26:13 yeah lets use that 17:26:14 and do a pass 17:26:22 let's do that. it is way faster when we do audio than in irc things 17:26:32 we usually do these passes at the time it takes to find a way to do them over irc 17:26:34 excellent! 17:26:35 we put "new technical debt" into "should"; I think we should think about what we want to do with that. 17:27:00 similarly "bugs that are not security, regression, or crash" 17:27:04 isn't arti the solution to the tech debt problem? :-P 17:27:07 * ahf hides 17:27:08 :) 17:27:25 but yes, good idea to think a bit about that one if we stop doing should 17:27:28 aww, thank you ;) 17:27:34 C tor will exist for years even in the best arti scenario, and we shouldn't make it worse :) 17:27:38 yeah 17:27:39 agreed 17:28:23 ok 17:28:29 [For Oct 19] When to do next stable backport releases? Any opinions? -nick 17:29:00 any thoughts there? 17:29:12 it's been a month since 0.4.4.5 17:29:29 I would think "soon" sounds like very good idea 17:29:32 i have none :o but i also didn't get through all the tickets you looked at for backporting. if that is in a good shape then we can do it from now on? 17:29:46 ahf: what do you mean? 17:30:19 i meant i have no thoughts here because i didn't go through the big list of backport tasks you went over ~2 weeks ago (i think). if that is in a good state, then i guess we can do them at any point from now on? 17:31:12 ah 17:31:19 ok 17:31:28 i'll start looking at that then :) 17:32:13 ok 17:32:18 * ahf is looking at the todo list 17:32:40 looks good 17:32:48 do we have anything else? 17:32:48 i'm out of issues 17:33:17 * asn same here 17:33:18 * dgoulet is good 17:33:19 asn, dgoulet, gaba: all good? 17:33:25 ya 17:33:37 excellent, then let's end it now and it sounds like we have at least one thing to do on thursday! 17:33:45 see you all on the irc 17:33:47 #endmeeting