18:02:04 <gaba> #startmeeting June 15th Tor Browser
18:02:04 <MeetBot> Meeting started Mon Jun 15 18:02:04 2020 UTC.  The chair is gaba. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:02:04 <MeetBot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:02:06 <sysrqb> antonela: si
18:03:10 <gaba> please update your status in the pad and add anything to the agenda
18:03:47 <gaba> as you all can see I changed a little the structure of the pad meeting
18:06:29 <mikeperry> are all the tbb tickets synced in gitlab? ahf just told me something about us needing to split components? does that affect my ability to update tickets?
18:06:40 <gaba> not yet mikeperry
18:06:58 <gaba> we will be able to start updating tickets tomorrow
18:07:38 <ahf> mikeperry: you shouldn't update tickets right now - you can't on trac and you shouldn't on gitlab 8)
18:07:48 <mikeperry> ok
18:10:34 <gaba> ok. it seems we can start ?
18:10:46 <sysrqb> mikeperry: that's a discusion point for this meeting
18:10:59 <gaba> s58 project. Sysrqb and Antonela had a meeting last week about it. Anything to bring here?
18:11:07 <gaba> about Obj 2.1
18:11:10 <sysrqb> we had a good meeting
18:11:20 <antonela> indeed
18:11:25 <antonela> you can read the logs
18:11:36 <sysrqb> we opened many tickets for UI/functionality available in the current fennec-based Tor browser
18:11:47 <sysrqb> and we need to re-design for the fenix-based browser
18:11:58 <sysrqb> yes, we used the bot, so there is a log
18:12:03 <antonela> my plan is start to work on them this month
18:12:19 <gaba> new tickets are all in O2.1 of https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor58
18:12:23 <gaba> ok
18:12:38 <sysrqb> we have them in two parts, "re-design" under 2.1
18:12:44 <sysrqb> and "Re-implement" under 2.4
18:12:57 <gaba> nice
18:13:11 <antonela> so 2.1 have my estimations
18:13:15 <antonela> and 2.4 dev one
18:13:23 <sysrqb> we can improve the linking between the two sets of tickets
18:13:36 <antonela> haha yes, we can do it once gitlab is ready for messing up :)
18:13:38 <sysrqb> i haven't added any estimations on the rimplementation tickets yet
18:13:48 <sysrqb> yeah
18:14:00 <sysrqb> *reimplementation
18:14:28 <gaba> thanks
18:14:35 <sysrqb> i think that's all i have for this :)
18:14:36 <gaba> next is #31283
18:14:42 <sysrqb> unless someone has questions
18:14:45 <sysrqb> ah.
18:14:50 <gaba> yes please, questions? :)
18:14:56 <sysrqb> hrm.
18:15:32 <gaba> antonela: I think you are adding this here
18:15:36 <sysrqb> i guess antonela added #tor-meeting-?
18:15:44 <sysrqb> err #31283 :)
18:15:49 <gaba> yes
18:15:53 <antonela> so, for S30 we are planning on having the next stable release focused in circumvention. TB10 release will have snowflake in stable, and we are planning some improvements regarding the boostrapping flow
18:15:57 <GeKo> seems we need to nail down the scenarios in o3.1 first, right?
18:16:00 <antonela> yes hold on, im trying to explain :)
18:16:06 <GeKo> id that done somewhere?
18:16:14 <antonela> yes #31282
18:16:22 <gaba> geko: https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/org/sponsors/Sponsor30
18:16:40 <antonela> GeKo: yes, we are working on listing them there
18:17:41 <antonela> i'd love for the tb folks to review my proposal, ask questions, tell us what is wrong with this approach and suggest improvements. I want to involve you folks in this super early stage of the planning because i want to be in the same page about what is doable and what not
18:18:02 <GeKo> okay
18:18:03 <antonela> ideally we will bring this to desktop and tba, but first we can focus on desktop
18:18:20 <GeKo> so what should go into 10.0 here is the main question i have right now?
18:18:31 <gaba> the proposals are in #31283
18:18:34 <antonela> please feel free on commenting there, this is just a first draft and i plan to move forward after handling all your feedback
18:19:24 <antonela> GeKo: right, not exactly the child tickets which are random picked tickets under some objective, but the overall idea about to plan a tor launcher removal and handling bridges in a more proactive way (than reactive, which is the current approach)
18:19:43 <sysrqb> i really like the idea of TB10 being an "anti-censorship release"
18:19:52 <gaba> me too
18:19:57 <sysrqb> and getting S30 improvements into that release
18:20:13 <sysrqb> but, we need to be careful about over-promising what we can complete within the next three months
18:20:13 * GeKo waits for sysrqb's "but"
18:20:18 <sysrqb> :)
18:20:22 <GeKo> ah, here it is, good
18:20:23 <antonela> right
18:20:25 <antonela> hahha
18:20:30 <GeKo> i think we should aim for 10.5 for that
18:20:32 <mcs> well played
18:20:38 <gaba> hehe
18:20:46 <antonela> ye, and we can have middle steps planning forward
18:20:48 <GeKo> when is the sponsor ending?
18:20:58 <sysrqb> next year, i believe
18:21:01 <antonela> the anticensorship team have other sponsors running too
18:21:10 <antonela> but im not sure how much tb dev capacity those have
18:21:33 <antonela> Project Period: September 20, 2019 - November 30, 2021
18:21:34 <gaba> yes, next year
18:21:55 <gaba> this is the only anticensroship project that has tb dev work
18:22:13 <sysrqb> but, i think we can make small progress on this
18:22:28 <gaba> yes, if not the tb dev work on this can wait until s58 is done
18:22:52 <sysrqb> maybe something simple like #34343
18:23:00 <GeKo> i don't think we have time until end of september for that
18:23:03 <GeKo> i mean, sure
18:23:13 <GeKo> if we have fixed all our must fix todo items
18:23:16 <antonela> anyways, the ux part is planned for this year and i want to have your review/feedback on that even if you are not going to develop _now_
18:23:17 <GeKo> sounds good to me
18:23:42 <antonela> thank you folks
18:23:42 <sysrqb> yes
18:24:07 <antonela> (like i want to deliver something we consider is doable, for dreamy plans we have silicon valley)
18:24:16 <sysrqb> antonela: yes, thanks. we should provide feedback, at least
18:24:21 <GeKo> antonela: okay, so you need review of what exactly?
18:24:23 <sysrqb> even if we don't have time for implementing it right now
18:24:36 <GeKo> the thing in #31283?
18:24:37 <antonela> GeKo: #31283
18:24:39 <antonela> yes
18:24:40 <GeKo> k
18:24:45 <antonela> thanks <3
18:24:53 <GeKo> by when? :)
18:25:04 <antonela> this month?
18:25:07 <antonela> maybe? next month?
18:25:08 <GeKo> wfm
18:25:11 <antonela> is fine, no hurries
18:25:14 <GeKo> (this month)
18:25:18 <antonela> great
18:25:25 <gaba> next topic is Gitlab :)
18:25:36 <gaba> \o/ to ahf for all the work he put on this!
18:25:38 <sysrqb> we have a couple sub-topics on this
18:25:43 <ahf> sysrqb: cool!
18:25:44 <sysrqb> yes!
18:26:32 <sysrqb> okay, 1) we should talk about the current final-move piece of this migration for tor browser tickets
18:26:42 <sysrqb> GeKo: did you see the backlog in #tor-project?
18:26:46 <GeKo> yes
18:26:51 <sysrqb> from the chat i had with gaba and ahf?
18:26:55 <GeKo> yes
18:26:56 <sysrqb> okay
18:27:07 <sysrqb> thoughts? :)
18:27:08 <GeKo> i think i can get it done today
18:27:13 <ahf> coolio. i slept to very late today, so i will be around for many hours from now
18:27:32 <GeKo> i am pulling an arma and pretend that timezones don't exist
18:27:40 <ahf> oh no
18:27:40 <GeKo> :)
18:27:42 <sysrqb> :)
18:27:47 <gaba> lol
18:27:50 <ahf> you will become a planeswalker soon
18:28:00 <GeKo> no thanks
18:28:04 <ahf> :-S
18:28:16 <ahf> nah, when it is ready, you can prod me and i will begin the extract stuff
18:28:28 <GeKo> yep, that was my plan, thanks
18:28:48 <sysrqb> and let me/us know if we can help with anything
18:28:56 <sysrqb> we can tlak about project name mappings after the meeting, too
18:29:00 <sysrqb> *talk
18:29:04 <ahf> yep, i will need one of you to check it a bit when it is done to tell me if things looks OK
18:29:04 <GeKo> will do
18:29:25 <sysrqb> yep. i can do some post-checks
18:29:25 <ahf> i think i will be done 1h-1h30m after you give me the list
18:29:29 <ahf> *nods*
18:29:32 <sysrqb> cool
18:29:34 <GeKo> i think the names look good so far apart from "topl"
18:29:45 <sysrqb> good
18:29:54 <GeKo> we'll have another repo i think for an obscure piece which is our windows installer code
18:30:10 <GeKo> because i found a ticket that belongs into that part
18:30:16 <gaba> i was thinking that the board for this team could be in https://gitlab.torproject.org/groups/tpo/applications/-/boards with all the issues that needs to be worked on from the different projects BUT we can talk about it in the next meeting
18:30:29 <sysrqb> GeKo: heh. okay
18:30:31 <antonela> applications/torbrowser?
18:30:37 <ahf> remember you can use for example 'topl' and then make it look like it says 'Tor Onion ...' in the title
18:30:46 <GeKo> right now the label is gitlab-tb-tbb-windows-installer
18:30:52 <ahf> 'Fallback Scripts' is the name of the project on gitlab, and its slug is fallback-scripts
18:31:01 <GeKo> so the repo would be tbb-windows-installer which would work for me at least
18:31:24 <ahf> you want *tbb* not just *tb*? and do you want the prefix even?
18:31:35 <ahf> the path is gonna be: /tpo/applications/tbb-windows-installer
18:31:40 <sysrqb> ahf: i was just thinking that, too
18:31:48 <ahf> /tpo/applications/windows-installer is free
18:32:01 <sysrqb> shoudl we use this opportunity and move away from "bundle" names?
18:32:04 <GeKo> yes, but we might have more apps at some point with some installer?
18:32:05 <ahf> i don't think we have any other things that TB stuff in /applications
18:32:10 <ahf> but then they can get a prefix
18:32:18 <GeKo> and the upstream repo is tbb-windows-installer
18:32:27 <GeKo> (yes, there is an upstream one :))
18:32:33 <GeKo> but i don't mind
18:32:35 <ahf> it is up to you :-) i won't have the final say at all there, just suggesting it
18:32:53 * GeKo puts it on sysrqb's plate
18:33:24 <sysrqb> great. i don't know
18:33:30 <ahf> roll the dice!
18:33:34 <sysrqb> i'll look at this after the meeting
18:33:36 <sysrqb> :)
18:33:37 <ahf> nod
18:34:07 <sysrqb> okay. and gaba's comment about the board leads us into the second (?) part of this topic
18:34:07 <gaba> anything else on s58? nobody seems blocked. Any help needed?
18:34:12 <gaba> oops
18:34:13 <gaba> sorry
18:34:20 <sysrqb> :) no worries
18:34:39 <sysrqb> i'll only say that we should re-think our workflow(s) now we have gitlab
18:34:52 <sysrqb> and all of the new functionality it gives us
18:34:58 <gaba> yes
18:35:07 <sysrqb> and we shouldn't remain tied to whow we worked with trac
18:35:21 <sysrqb> i don't know what the future workflows look like
18:35:24 <gaba> the sky is the limit?
18:35:30 <sysrqb> but as we start playing around with gitlab and become more familiar
18:35:33 <mcs> is there a suggested workflow? maybe we need to create one?
18:35:34 * antonela wants to visit pluto
18:35:43 <sysrqb> all of us should think about what a better workflow looks like
18:35:52 <gaba> yes, great
18:36:03 <ahf> i think discovering what works well is something we across teams will have to figure out. some will move their repos over and start using merge requests, they have it very easy
18:36:07 <gaba> i have some thoughts but we can talk about this next week when people have more time to play with gitlab
18:36:14 <ahf> those staying with canonical upstream repos on git.tpo will have a slightly different workflow
18:36:19 <gaba> right
18:36:20 <ahf> some wont even have repos there :-o
18:36:20 <gaba> ^
18:36:32 <sysrqb> mcs: i think we can get suggestions from other teams, llike the network "team"
18:37:06 <sysrqb> great
18:37:18 <sysrqb> gaba: yes, please, let's discuss this next week
18:37:42 <sysrqb> but everyone should keep this in mind as they work with gitlab this week
18:37:49 <gaba> and as the work inside the applications group may be affected by how other teams/spaces work then we need to coordinate
18:38:01 <gaba> i would like us to use some labels that are at tpo level
18:38:12 <gaba> so we can have an overview at tpo level  of all the work being done
18:38:24 <GeKo> sounds useful
18:38:26 <sysrqb> yes, that sounds good
18:39:03 <sysrqb> i think that's all i have for this topic
18:39:04 <gaba> anything else on this?
18:39:07 <gaba> ok
18:39:09 <gaba> anything else on s58? nobody seems blocked. Any help needed? or anything else?
18:39:44 <sysrqb> .
18:39:53 * ahf is good, but also was useless on this last week
18:39:53 <GeKo> i am fine
18:39:55 <sysrqb> one thing GeKo and I discussed earlier
18:40:28 <sysrqb> acat: one of the next projects we think you are a good persons for working on
18:40:44 <sysrqb> is improving our patch set so rebasing is easier in the future
18:41:19 <sysrqb> this isn't needed this week, but we should thikn about how we can make rebasing less painful
18:41:24 <sysrqb> and faster, overall
18:42:14 <sysrqb> and that is probably a combination of the current effort in uplifting patches and maybe tweaking some of the other patches
18:43:24 <sysrqb> oh, and thinking about how we make sure rebased patches are still functioning correctly
18:43:33 <sysrqb> part of that is the tests/testsuite
18:43:48 <sysrqb> but maybe there is more we can do
18:44:36 <acat> yes, i actually added "covering patches" with tests this week too
18:44:56 <sysrqb> and mcs, brade: can you help with starting to review the release notes since FF75, as well?
18:45:10 <sysrqb> your week may be pretty full with your current list
18:45:28 <mcs> sysrqb: we will add that to the pile :)
18:45:36 <acat> patches like onion security expectations, client authentication, onion-location, onion names... take some time to test, as this has to be done manually currently
18:45:36 <sysrqb> but having you start that soon will be helpful
18:45:41 <sysrqb> mcs: thanks :)
18:46:07 <sysrqb> acat: great, thanks
18:46:28 <acat> i'm never sure what's covered by s58 and what not, though :)
18:46:34 <sysrqb> getting the official testsuite working again by testing/merging your patches
18:46:37 <sysrqb> is on my plate this week
18:46:46 <acat> i guess making tests is included in s58
18:47:06 <GeKo> acat: getting the rebase into good shape is :)
18:47:11 <sysrqb> s58 is basically "anything that affects Android, or anytihng that Android relies on"
18:47:24 <sysrqb> but yes, rebasing all patches is part of this
18:48:01 <sysrqb> okay, now i think i'm done :)
18:48:20 <gaba> ok, if there is nothing else then let's close the meeting
18:48:29 <gaba> #endmeeting